Socialization – Your Parenting Mojo

Why Your Preschooler Is Hitting, Biting, or Kicking (And What Helps)

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 06 Sep 2026 20:00:00 +0000

Your child’s preschool number shows up on your caller ID, and your stomach drops before you even answer. Preschool never calls with good news. Your kid hit someone at the sand table, or kicked a friend in line for the bathroom, and now you’re standing there wondering if you have to call another parent and apologize, and whether this is the start of your kid becoming the one nobody wants to play with.

The conversation you have that night probably isn’t the first one. You remind your child that we keep our hands to ourselves. Maybe there’s an early bedtime attached this time, to show them you mean it. Then the same thing happens again the next week, and you start to wonder what you’re missing.

In this episode, I walk through what’s actually driving hitting, biting, and kicking at preschool, both for kids who are dealing with a classroom that controls almost everything about their body for the first time, and for teachers managing a room of 20 kids with their own competing pressures. I share what happened when a child hit a teacher after being physically moved into circle time, and a moment from my own daughter’s classroom where a nap-time standoff got resolved without anyone losing. By the end, you’ll have a different question to ask than “how do I get the hitting to stop.”

Questions this episode will answer

Is it normal for preschoolers to hit? Hitting, biting, and kicking are common at this age, especially once a child spends most of the day in a classroom where someone else controls when they sit, move, and talk. That loss of control is often what’s underneath the hitting for three and four year olds.

How do I stop my 4 year old from hitting at school? Repeating “hitting isn’t okay” rarely works, because most kids already know that before the conversation happens. Look instead at what happened right before the hit, and what was building up earlier in the day.

What are some common behavior problems that 4-year-olds experience in school? Hitting, biting, and kicking often show up around transitions, circle time, and group activities, the exact moments where a child has the least say over their own body.

How to deal with challenging behaviors in preschool? Instead of treating the behavior itself as the problem to fix, it helps to look at what a child’s body and day were signaling right before it happened, including sensory overwhelm and a loss of autonomy.

How to handle disruptive behavior in the preschool classroom? For teachers managing a full room, a child’s need can often be met alongside a teacher’s own needs for competence, ease, and keeping kids safe, without one side having to lose.

How to manage behavior in preschool? The better starting question isn’t how to get the behavior to stop. It’s what’s happening in a child’s body and day that leads them there, for parents and teachers both.

What you’ll learn in this episode

Why a preschool classroom is often the first place in a child’s life where an adult besides a parent controls almost everything about their body, and why that loss of autonomy can come out as hitting or kicking
The story behind a child who hit a teacher during circle time, and what came out only after the fact about what led to it
How to tell whether a child’s hitting or kicking is coming from a sensory issue, an autonomy issue, or something else, and how that changes what actually helps
What teachers are usually working to protect when they enforce rules like Circle Time, including their own needs for competence, ease, and children’s safety
How I worked out a nap-time standoff with my own daughter’s preschool that met her needs and her teachers’ needs at the same time
A different question to ask instead of “how do I get this behavior to stop”

Behavior is a signal – here’s how to work with it

You already have the instinct to look past the hitting or kicking and ask what’s underneath it. What the Stop the Behavior Battles Masterclass adds is a repeatable way to find the answer in the moment, when your kid is already mid-meltdown and you don’t have time to think it through from scratch.

That’s the whole method: four steps you can walk through with your own kid’s situation, the same four steps you’ll watch a real parent named Clarice apply to her own son’s toy pickup standoff. Practice it enough times, and it starts to happen without you needing to stop and think through each step.

When you enroll, you’ll also get a 20-minute coaching session with Denise, our community manager and a credentialed coach, to help you narrow down the strategies most likely to work for your specific kid. And you’ll get an invitation to a live call with me on September 16, where I’ll share one of my own worst parenting moments and coach live on the spot.

Get the Stop the Behavior Battles Masterclass for $27. Click the banner to learn more.

Jump to highlights

01:10 Introduction to the episode’s premise: hitting, biting, and kicking at preschool

04:12 The autonomy shift kids face moving into a classroom, and hitting as a way to signal “I need some say”

07:59 Why kindergarten-readiness pressure pushes teachers and parents toward compliance over accommodation

11:03 Applying the “would I want to be treated this way” test to circle time and other classroom moments

13:33 The adult parallel: snapping at a partner after a hard day, and why we don’t extend kids the same grace

14:33 How parents can approach a teacher without blame, and requesting accommodations grounded in real needs

16:07 Jen’s own example: finding a nap-time compromise for her daughter that worked for both her and the teachers

17:00 Introducing the Stop the Behavior Battles Masterclass and what it walks parents through

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261: Why Your Kids Fight (It’s Not What You Think)

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 29 Mar 2026 20:00:00 +0000

If your kids are fighting constantly, you’re probably exhausted from playing referee. Maybe they’re arguing over whose toy is whose, poking and teasing each other until someone cries, or telling you two completely different stories about what happened. And when you step in to help, nothing seems to work.

In this free Beyond the Behavior group coaching call, parent Stacey’s 12-year-old and 7-year-old are caught in a cycle of constant sibling conflict – poking, teasing, hitting, and yes, even lying to get each other in trouble.

We might think that sibling fighting is about mean-ness, but actually it’s a signal of underlying needs. Once you understand what’s driving the behavior, you’ll have real tools to help your kids work through conflict – and a process for helping them find solutions that work for both of them.

Click here to download the Steps on How to Stop Sibling Conflict Infographic

Questions This Episode Will Answer

Is sibling fighting normal?

Some conflict between siblings is common, but constant fighting – where nothing you try seems to work – is usually a signal that your child is trying to meet a specific need. Once you know what it is, it will be much easier to find a strategy that works for both of you.

What causes siblings to fight so much?

The reason kids fight is often not what it looks like on the surface. Common needs children are trying to meet through fighting include:

Connection with a parent (when they hit a sibling, they know they have your attention!)
To be seen/known/understood by you, and they don’t know how to express that, and they take out their frustration on their sibling
To play! A surprising number of kids will hit another kid to say: “Will you play with me?”

What are the most common triggers for sibling fights?

Most sibling fights start with an immediate need to play, a need for connection with you (and fighting with their sibling gets your attention) or a broader lack of wellbeing in the family that they express through hitting and fighting.

Is it okay to let siblings work it out themselves?

Stepping back feels logical when nothing you do helps. But kids may think that you don’t care whether or how they fight, which doesn’t lead them to fight less.

Instead, spending some time teaching them some new conflict resolution skills now will save you from years of refereeing their fighting down the road.

How do you get siblings to stop hitting each other?

Sibling hitting is almost never just about aggression. There’s usually something else going on underneath it – very often needs for things like connection, to be seen, known, and understood by you, and maybe even play with their sibling. Addressing those needs changes the behavior far more effectively than consequences do. You can do this by:

Connecting 1:1 for 10 minutes a day, doing something your child enjoys
Understanding the major challenges they’re facing (e.g. school, new sibling, other major life changes) and supporting them through those challenges
Teaching kids how to say: “Do you want to play?” and “Yes!”, “Not right now, but maybe later” and “No thanks!”.

How do you handle it when siblings lie about who started the fight?

When both kids are telling different stories, trying to figure out who’s right pulls you into a dead end. Instead of investigating the past, shift your focus to what each child needed in that moment – and how to help them get it in a way that works for both of them.

How do you resolve sibling conflict without refereeing every fight?

You can teach kids a specific process to stop their fights: name their feelings, identify what they need in that moment, and then brainstorm strategies that could meet both people’s needs. Parents can teach this by practicing it in low-stakes moments first – not in the middle of a fight.

How do you get siblings to stop tattling?

Tattling usually happens when a child wants a parent to take their side. When kids learn to identify what they need in a conflict and how to ask for it directly, the motivation to tattle drops – because they have a more effective way to get their needs met.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Why sibling fighting is often a bid for connection – and why that reframe matters for how you respond
Why one child hitting another can actually be an attempt to play, not a sign of aggression
What it means to make a “bid for connection”, and how to help both the child making the bid and the one receiving it
Why stepping back and letting kids handle conflict themselves can backfire – and what needs to be in place before that becomes a realistic option
How to use feelings and needs language as a conflict resolution tool – and why starting with low-stakes moments between you and your child (not between the kids) is the most effective first step
Why special one-on-one time with each child plays a bigger role in sibling conflict than most parents realize
How to work with kids who shut down and won’t talk – including non-verbal ways to stay connected in a hard moment
A practical way to help even young children start solving conflicts together – including a real example of a 3-year-old and 5-year-old doing exactly that within weeks of their parents starting this approach

Beyond The Behavior Coaching Calls

Want coaching like this for yourself?

These Beyond The Behavior calls happen on the second Wednesday of each month from 11 AM Pacific, and they’re completely free. You can get coached on whatever challenge you’re facing right now, or just listen in while I coach other parents.

We usually work with two or three parents on each call. And if you can’t make it live, don’t worry – recordings are available inside the Parenting Membership where they’re searchable by topic.

There’s no commitment. We’ll send you a reminder before each call, and you can join if it works for you or skip it if you’re busy with other things.

Whether you’re dealing with challenging behaviors or trying to figure out how to stop yelling at your kids, these calls give you a chance to work through your specific situation with support.

Click the banner to learn more and sign up

Jump to highlights:

01:48 Introduction to today’s episode

03:42 Parent Stacey shares the situation wherein her 12-year-old and 7-year-old are constantly fighting, poking, and teasing. Both kids have admitted to lying about what happened because they want to get each other in trouble.

06:03 Conflicts often start over objects, but attention, specifically connection, is the real driver behind much of the fighting.

06:39 Jen explains how we can shift from the negative connotation of “attention-seeking” to understanding it as kids looking for connection with each other and with parents.

10:58 Jen helps Stacey think about when one-on-one time could happen, like during drives to sports practice, and how to balance everyone’s needs, including the parents’ needs for rest and couple time.

12:45 What’s missing is a real understanding of what needs are coming up for each person in their interactions.

17:43 Kids try to meet the same needs over and over. Connection and autonomy are almost always in the top three.

20:13 Wrapping up.

20:33 An open invitation to join the next Beyond the Behavior call.

20:40 An open invitation to the flash sale on one-on-one coaching until April 5.

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251: Why Your 8-12 Year Old Should Start a Business (And How to Support Them Without Taking Over!)

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 03 Aug 2025 20:00:00 +0000

What if the most powerful gift you could give your child isn’t a college fund, but the skills to create their own income at age 10? When my daughter Carys started pet sitting, she didn’t just earn money (although she does now have $759 in a retirement savings account that could become over $100,000 by the time she needs it).

She’s also developing initiative, follow-through, boundary setting, and client communication skills that many adults find difficult.

This episode reveals why ages 8-12 represent a unique window for developing real-world capabilities through meaningful work. You’ll discover how kid businesses naturally teach the life skills parents spend years trying to instill through chores and consequences, from morning routines and organization to persistence with difficult tasks and clear communication about capacity and needs.

You’ll learn the practical details of supporting a young entrepreneur without taking over, addressing common concerns about safety, childhood, and academic pressure while showing how business skills actually enhance learning and development.

Questions this episode will answer:

What age should kids start a business and why? Ages 8-12 are ideal because kids can handle real responsibility but aren’t overwhelmed by teenage social pressures, plus adults are more patient and supportive with young entrepreneurs.

What business skills can young kids actually develop? Taking initiative, following through on commitments, organization, client communication, boundary setting, persistence through challenges, financial planning, and so much more: all skills that develop through real work.

How do you support a kid’s business without taking over? Be a “guide on the side” by asking questions instead of giving answers, stepping in only when they hit capacity limits, and letting them learn from manageable failures.

What types of businesses work best for kids this age? Service-based businesses with low startup costs that match kid strengths: think pet care, yard work, parent’s helper babysitting, simple crafts, tech support for seniors, and tutoring younger kids.

Is starting a business safe for young children? Yes, with proper systems: initial parent involvement, communication protocols, schedule awareness, and safety equipment like walkie-talkies for new situations.

How is this different from traditional chores and allowance? Kid businesses create direct feedback loops between work quality and real consequences, plus children choose their involvement level rather than having tasks imposed on them.

What about their education and childhood play time? Business work typically takes less time than kids spend on screens, enhances academic learning through real-world application, and provides meaningful alternatives to entertainment that doesn’t require much thinking.

How do you handle the money management aspect? Open age-appropriate bank accounts, teach about how money can grow over the long term in retirement savings accounts. Discuss values-based spending, including charitable giving and long-term goals.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

Why the 8-12 age range creates optimal conditions for developing business skills without academic or social pressure
How kid businesses naturally teach organization, time management, and systems thinking that parents struggle to instill through traditional methods
Practical examples of how young entrepreneurs develop emotional regulation, boundary setting, and clear communication about their capacity and needs
The “guide on the side” approach to supporting kids without taking over their learning process
Safety protocols and systems that protect young business owners while building real-world confidence
How to identify service-based business opportunities that match your child’s interests and community needs
The compound effect of early financial literacy, including retirement savings strategies for kid entrepreneurs
Why neurodivergent children often thrive in business contexts where their differences become strengths rather than challenges
The answers to common parental concerns about childhood, safety, education, and an excessive focus on money
Real-world examples from a successful 10-year-old pet sitting business, including client interactions, problem-solving scenarios, and financial outcomes

Ready to help your child develop skills they’ll need in the future?

The Learning Membership helps you become the “guide on the side” who follows your child’s true interests and supports them in developing the crucial capabilities they will need.

You’ll learn to identify the theories your child is building about the world, connect them with resources to answer their own questions, and help them solve problems that have real meaning to real people, not just assignments designed to grade performance.

When you join before the end of day, August 8, you’ll also get free access to Mind Your Own Business: For Kids, the course Carys and I built after she started her own pet-sitting business. It walks kids through testing an idea with real clients, then growing it if it works. You’ll also get the You Are Your Child’s Best Teacher Masterclass, 60 minutes on spotting the learning your child is already doing and starting a learning journal to track it.

Enrollment is open until August 26.

Click the banner to learn more.

Jump to highlights

01:58 Introduction to today’s episode

06:33 When children take on entrepreneurial responsibilities early, they naturally develop the ability to manage their own school preparation and daily organization instead of relying on parents to remember everything for them

13:51 Reliability isn’t some complex trait; it’s simply the practice of consistently following through on commitments, and children learn this best when they face real but age-appropriate consequences for their choices

19:45 What kinds of businesses actually work for kids aged 8-12 years old?

25:01 The need to save for retirement reflects a broken system where community care has been replaced by individual financial responsibility, but teaching children some skills gives them the option to choose meaningful work over desperate survival while contributing to rebuilding more caring communities

33:45 Common concerns or issues parents express when they learn about a 10-year-old running their own business

50:10 If the idea of starting a business sounds interesting to you, where do you begin?

54:02 An open invitation for Mind Your Business: For Kids

54:52 Wrapping up

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Episode Summary 02: The Anxious Generation: What Parents Need to Know

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 20:00:00 +0000

Are you worried that social media is destroying your teen’s mental health? You’re not alone. Jonathan Haidt’s bestselling book The Anxious Generation has parents everywhere wondering if smartphones are rewiring their kids’ brains and creating a mental health crisis. But before you rush to ban your teen’s phone, you need to hear what the research actually shows.

This summary episode brings together all the key insights from our 4-part series examining The Anxious Generation. We take a deep dive into the data behind the teen mental health crisis claims, giving you the essential findings in one convenient episode. You’ll discover why those alarming statistics might not mean what you think they do, and why the correlation between social media use and teen depression is actually smaller than the correlation between eating potatoes and teen wellbeing.

We’ll explore what really drives teen mental health struggles, from family relationships to academic pressure, and why control-based approaches like phone bans often backfire, pushing our kids further away when they need us most.

Questions This Episode Will Answer

Is there really a teen mental health crisis caused by social media? The dramatic statistics may reflect better screening and diagnosis rather than new cases caused by technology.

Does social media actually cause teen depression and anxiety? Research shows the correlation is smaller than that between eating potatoes and teen wellbeing, explaining less than 1% of variance.

Should parents ban phones at school to help kids focus? Academic declines are tiny and international data doesn’t support the phone-blame theory.

Will banning my teen’s phone at home solve their mental health problems? Control-based approaches often backfire and damage the parent-child relationship.

What affects teen mental health more than social media? Family relationships, academic pressure, sleep, economic stress, and school environment have much bigger impacts.

How can I help my teen with technology without taking it away? Focus on connection, listen more, work together on limits, and address bigger stressors.

Why do teens turn to their phones so much? Phones provide autonomy, connection, and relevance that teens often don’t find elsewhere.

What do teens who self-harm actually say about social media? Many feel frustrated by attempts to blame social media and see the narrative as wrong and unhelpful.

How can I create healthy technology habits without damaging trust? Include your teen in creating rules, focus on relationship building, and address underlying needs.

What should I do if I’m worried about my teen’s phone use? Look at the whole picture, build connections through listening, and work together on solutions.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Why the “hockey stick” graphs showing teen mental health decline might be misleading, and what factors like better screening and diagnostic changes actually explain
The surprising truth about social media research – including why studies showing harm have major flaws and why effect sizes are incredibly small
What the international data really shows about teen mental health across countries with similar smartphone adoption rates
Why family relationships, not screen time, are the strongest predictor of teen wellbeing according to emergency room data
How control-based approaches like phone bans create sneaking, secrecy, and damaged trust instead of healthier habits
The real reasons teens turn to phones – and how to address underlying needs for autonomy, connection, and relevance
Evidence-based strategies for supporting teen mental health that focus on connection over control
Why different communities experience teen distress differently, and how this affects our understanding of social media’s impact
How to have technology conversations with your teen that build trust rather than create power struggles
Practical approaches for creating compelling offline experiences and supporting your teen’s individual needs

Dr. Jonathan Haidt’s Book

The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness (Affiliate link)

Resources

The Anxious Generation Resources

Jump to highlights

00:00 Teaser of today’s episode

02:52 There’s a widespread misconception about the teen mental health crisis. People often misunderstand both the root causes and the appropriate responses. Essentially, there’s a real problem, but we’re looking in the wrong places for causes and solutions

05:08 What’s been covered in the previous episodes of The Anxious Generation Review series

09:06 Social media’s mental health impact is small for most teens compared to family relationships, sleep, economics, and academics, though it can harm vulnerable teens while helping marginalized youth find community

12:36 Strategies that can help you support your child

14:44 Wrapping up the series about The Anxious Generation review

16:22 An open invitation to The Anxious Generation resources and scripts to help you talk with your kids about screen time in age-appropriate ways

References

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City of Palo Alto. (2021). City of Palo Alto: Suicide prevention policy and mental health promotion [Draft policy document]. Project Safety Net. https://www.psnyouth.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/DRAFT-Palo-Alto-Suicide-Prevention-Policy-and-Mental-Health-Promotion-dT.pdf

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Curran, T., & Hill, A. P. (2022). Young people’s perceptions of their parents’ expectations and criticism are increasing over time: Implications for perfectionism. Psychological Bulletin, 148(1-2), 107-128. https://doi.org/10.1037/bul0000347

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Evolve’s Behavioral Health Content Team. (2020, July 27). Mental health and suicide statistics for teens in Santa Clara County. Evolve Treatment Centers. https://evolvetreatment.com/blog/mental-health-suicide-santa-clara/

Faverio, M., & Sidoti, O. (2024, December 12). Teens, social media and technology 2024: YouTube, TikTok, Instagram and Snapchat remain widely used among U.S. teens; some say they’re on these sites almost constantly. Pew Research Center. https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2024/12/PI_2024.12.12_Teens-Social-Media-Tech_REPORT.pdf

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Gray, P. (2024, May 20). #63. More on moral panics and thoughts about when to ban smartphones. Peter Gray’s Play Makes Us Human. https://petergray.substack.com/p/63-more-on-moral-panics-and-thoughts?utm_source=publication-search

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Haas, A. P., Rodgers, P. L., & Herman, J. L. (2014, January). Suicide attempts among transgender and gender non-conforming adults: Findings of the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and Williams Institute, UCLA School of Law. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Trans-GNC-Suicide-Attempts-Jan-2014.pdf

Haidt, J., & Rausch, Z. Better mental health [Ongoing open-source literature review]. The Coddling. https://www.thecoddling.com/better-mental-health

Haidt, J., Rausch, Z., & Twenge, J. (ongoing). Social media and mental health: A collaborative review. Unpublished manuscript, New York University. Accessed at tinyurl.com/SocialMediaMentalHealthReview

Hunt, M., Auriemma, J., & Cashaw, A. C. A. (2003). Self-report bias and underreporting of depression on the BDI-II. Journal of Personality Assessment, 80(1), 26-30. https://doi.org/10.1207/S15327752JPA8001_10

Johns Hopkins Medicine. Premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD). Johns Hopkins Medicine. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/premenstrual-dysphoric-disorder-pmdd

KFF. (2024). A look at state efforts to ban cellphones in schools and implications for youth mental health. https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/a-look-at-state-efforts-to-ban-cellphones-in-schools-and-implications-for-youth-mental-health/

Lilienfeld, S. O., & Arkowitz, H. (2014, January 1). Why “just say no” doesn’t work. Scientific American. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-just-say-no-doesnt-work/

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Mims, C. (2024, March 29). Jonathan Haidt thinks smartphones destroyed a generation. Is he right? The Wall Street Journal. https://www.wsj.com/tech/personal-tech/jonathan-haidt-anxious-generation-book-smartphones-676bcadb

Mueller, A. S., & Abrutyn, S. (2024). Addressing the social roots of suicide. In Life Under Pressure (pp. 191-218). Oxford University Press. https://doi.org/10.1093/oso/9780190847845.003.0008

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Programme for International Student Assessment. (2024, May). Managing screen time: How to protect and equip students against distraction. OECD. https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/publications/reports/2024/05/managing-screen-time_023f2390/7c225af4-en.pdf

Rosin, H. (2015, December). The Silicon Valley suicides: Why are so many kids with bright prospects killing themselves in Palo Alto? The Atlantic. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health. (2020, March). Suicide. State of Child Health. https://stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/mental-health/suicide/

Sarginson, J., Webb, R. T., Stocks, S. J., Esmail, A., Garg, S., & Ashcroft, D. M. (2017). Temporal trends in antidepressant prescribing to children in UK primary care, 2000–2015. Journal of Affective Disorders, 210, 312-318. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jad.2016.12.047

Scottish Government. (2024, March 18). Supporting development of a self-harm strategy for Scotland, what does the qualitative evidence tell us? Gov.scot. https://www.gov.scot/publications/supporting-development-self-harm-strategy-scotland-qualitative-evidence-tell/

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Stevenson, B., & Wolfers, J. (2009). The paradox of declining female happiness [Working paper]. Social Science Research Network. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1408690

Thomas, J. F., Temple, J. R., Perez, N., & Rupp, R. (2011). Ethnic and gender disparities in needed adolescent mental health care. Journal of Health Care for the Poor and Underserved, 22(1), 101-110. https://doi.org/10.1353/hpu.2011.0029

Townsend, E., Ness, J., Waters, K., Rehman, M., Kapur, N., Clements, C., Geulayov, G., Bale, E., Casey, D., & Hawton, K. (2022). Life problems in children and adolescents who self‐harm: Findings from the multicenter study of self‐harm in England. Child and Adolescent Mental Health, 27(4), 352-360. https://doi.org/10.1111/camh.12544

U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Minority Health. (n.d.). Mental and behavioral health – American Indians/Alaska Natives. https://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/mental-and-behavioral-health-american-indiansalaska-natives

Van Ausdale, D., & Feagin, J. R. (2001). The first R: How children learn race and racism. Rowman & Littlefield.https://www.amazon.com/First-Children-Learn-Race-Racism/dp/0847688623

Wong, Y. J., Wang, L., Li, S., & Liu, H. (2017). Circumstances preceding the suicide of Asian Pacific Islander Americans and White Americans. Death Studies, 41(5), 311-317. https://doi.org/10.1080/07481187.2016.1275888

Zulyniak, S., Wiens, K., Bulloch, A. G. M., Williams, J. V. A., Lukmanji, A., Dores, A. K., Isherwood, L. J., & Patten, S. B. (2021). Increasing rates of youth and adolescent suicide in Canadian women. The Canadian Journal of Psychiatry, 67(1), 67-69. https://doi.org/10.1177/07067437211017875

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249: The Anxious Generation Review (Part 3): Should we ban cell phones in school?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 13 Jul 2025 20:00:00 +0000

This is the third in our series of episodes on Jonathan Haidt’s book The Anxious Generation.

In Part 1, we looked at the evidence for the teen ‘mental health crisis.’

In Part 2, we reviewed the evidence for whether social media is causing the so-called ‘teen mental health crisis.

In this episode, we begin looking at what to do about the effects of phones on kids – starting with school cell phone bans.

Phone bans are spreading like wildfire across America, with 21 states either studying or already enforcing restrictions, up from none just a few years ago. But before you advocate for – or against – a ban at your child’s school, you need to hear what the research actually reveals. This episode examines real studies from Denmark, England, and Hungary, plus the eye-opening results from schools using those tamper-proof Yonder pouches that promise to solve everything.

You’ll discover why the “golden age” of unsupervised childhood play that experts want us to return to wasn’t actually golden for most kids. More importantly, you’ll learn what’s really driving students to their phones: unmet needs for choice, agency, and genuine connection. Through a fascinating deep-dive into one teacher’s blog post about his school’s phone ban, you’ll see how current approaches may be missing the point entirely, and what students themselves say would actually help them engage more in school.

Which states are banning cell phones in schools? 21 states are currently studying or have already enforced cell phone bans, including Florida, Louisiana, Virginia, Indiana, Oklahoma, North Dakota, and New York.

Are cell phone bans in schools effective for improving academic performance? Research shows mixed results with only tiny improvements on test scores, and most studies don’t control for other factors that could explain the changes.

Does banning phones in school improve students’ mental health? Studies from multiple countries found no significant improvements in student anxiety, depression, or overall wellbeing from cell phone restrictions.

Are cell phone bans in schools a good idea? The evidence suggests that school cell phone bans address symptoms rather than root causes – students turn to phones because their needs for autonomy and connection aren’t being met.

What happens when schools try to enforce cell phones being banned in schools? Students find creative workarounds: stabbing through security pouches, buying unlock magnets, bringing decoy phones, and creating underground phone-sharing economies.

Why do students want their phones during school hours? Research shows students use phones to meet basic psychological needs for choice, agency, and genuine connection that traditional classrooms often fail to provide.

What you’ll learn in this episode

The real data on school cell phone ban effectiveness – examining studies from Denmark, England, Hungary, and the U.S. that reveal surprising results about academic and mental health outcomes
Which states are leading the cell phone ban movement – a breakdown of the 21 states implementing or studying restrictions, from Florida’s pioneering ban to New York’s upcoming policies
Why current approaches to cell phones being banned in schools may backfire – discover how students circumvent Yondr pouches and other enforcement methods, and what this reveals about their underlying needs
The hidden problems with returning to “phone-free” childhood – learn why the idealized past of unsupervised play wasn’t accessible to all children, especially girls and marginalized communities
What students actually need to engage in school – research-backed insights into the real factors that improve student wellbeing and academic performance beyond device restrictions
A better approach than outright bans – explore how involving students in creating technology agreements can build trust and address root causes rather than just symptoms

Dr. Jonathan Haidt’s Book

The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness (Affiliate link)

Jump to highlights

00:00 Teaser of today’s episode

07:25 There’s a Smithsonian Museum lesson plan that points out many people saw child labor as desirable after the Civil War. It was a way for poverty-stricken youngsters to support their families

09:01 In the 1930s, concerns about women’s health led universities to drop athletic programs for females. During the outdoor play, boys spent more time outside than girls. This gender gap persists today, with girls reporting that parks feel unwelcoming. Unsupervised play often reinforces harmful cultural norms

14:26 Banning phones in school is a good thing, according to Dr. Haidt. But what did the research say?

19:51 Looking at international test scores from 2010-2019, there’s no clear pattern linking higher cell phone use to declining academic performance. Countries with high phone penetration showed varied results, with some improving, others declining, and many remaining flat. Haidt oversimplifies by attributing test score changes solely to phone use, ignoring multiple contributing factors.

23:43 A cross-sectional study compared 30 English secondary schools with restrictive phone policies, meaning phones weren’t allowed for recreational use, and permissive policies, meaning phones were allowed for recreational use at certain times and places

27:50 According to Gilbert Schuerch’s Fit to Teach Substack, students were using their devices for 8-17 hours each day on weekends. Basic restrictions didn’t work. The approach that succeeded involved taking phones entirely and imposing serious penalties, which resulted in better classroom focus and less bullying

34:35 The needs students were trying to meet through their phones were the internal motivation, trust, and true connections

41:46 When your child comes across something they don’t want to do that happens in service of a goal they very much want, they will do it

44:45 Wrapping up

References

Haidt, J., & Rausch, Z. Better mental health [Ongoing open-source literature review]. The Coddling. https://www.thecoddling.com/better-mental-health

Johns Hopkins Medicine. Premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD). Johns Hopkins Medicine. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/premenstrual-dysphoric-disorder-pmdd

Martin, J. L. (2002). Power, authority, and the constraint of belief systems. American Journal of Sociology, 107(4), 861-904. https://doi.org/10.1086/343192

Mueller, A. S., & Abrutyn, S. (2024). Addressing the social roots of suicide. In Life Under Pressure (pp. 191-218). Oxford University Press. https://doi.org/10.1093/oso/9780190847845.003.0008

NHS Digital. (2020). Mental health of children and young people in England, 2020 [Data set]. UK Data Service. https://doi.org/10.5255/UKDA-SN-9128-2

Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health. (2020, March). Suicide. State of Child Health. https://stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/mental-health/suicide/

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248: The Anxious Generation Review (Part 2): Does Social Media Actually Cause Kids’ Depression and Anxiety?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 06 Jul 2025 20:00:00 +0000

In Part 1 of this mini-series looking at Jonathan Haidt’s book The Anxious Generation, we discovered that the teen mental health crisis might not be as dramatic as The Anxious Generation claims – and that changes in diagnosis and coding could be inflating the numbers. But even if we accept that teens’ struggles have increased somewhat, the next crucial question is: what’s actually causing the change?

Jonathan Haidt is adamant that social media causes depression and anxiety in teenagers. He claims that “dozens of experiments” prove social media use is a CAUSE, not just a correlate, of mental health problems. But when you dig into the studies, as we do in this episode, we’ll see that the ‘causal’ data is nowhere near as strong as Haidt claims.

We’ll examine the experimental evidence behind social media and teen mental health claims, reveal why leading researchers compare social media effects on teens to eating potatoes, and uncover what factors actually explain 99% of youth mental health outcomes. Because if we’re going to spend time and energy helping our kids, we want to make sure we’re spending it doing things that will actually help.

Questions This Episode Will Answer

Does social media really cause teen depression and anxiety? Research shows correlation, not proven causation, with social media effects on teens explaining less than 1% of wellbeing, similar to the effect of eating potatoes. (Some researchers argue that this is still important enough to pay attention to – the episode explores why.)

Why do I keep hearing that social media is harmful if the research is weak? Many (but not all) social media studies find some evidence of harm, but when you look at the methodology this isn’t surprising – researchers do things like sending participants daily reminders that “limiting social media is good for you,” and then asking them how much social media they’ve consumed and how they feel. It’s hard to draw strong conclusions from this data!

How can different studies on social media show opposite results? Researchers studying teen social media use can get completely different results from the same data depending on how they choose to analyze it. The episode looks at those choices and what they mean for understanding whether social media causes kids’ depression and anxiety.

Is limiting my teen’s social media use actually going to help them? Current evidence suggests that some kids who use social media a lot are vulnerable to experiencing depression and anxiety, and limiting their use specifically may be protective. There is little evidence to support the idea that blanket bans on kids’ social media/smart phone usage will result in dramatic improvements in youth mental health, and focusing on issues that are more clearly connected to mental health would likely have a greater positive impact.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

How most social media research creates results that don’t tell us what we want to know (but then reports the results as if they do)
How the same teen mental health data can be analyzed to support opposite conclusions about social media effects on teens
What family relationships, academic pressure, and economic stress reveal about the real drivers of youth mental health issues
How social media and teen mental health correlations explain the same amount of variance as seemingly irrelevant factors like potato consumption
How researcher bias and study design flaws make social media studies less reliable than parents think
What happens when kids who benefit from social media lose access to it
Why the focus on teen social media use might distract from addressing bigger factors affecting your child’s wellbeing
How to evaluate social media research claims critically when making decisions about your family’s technology use
What the ongoing debate between leading researchers reveals about the uncertainty in digital wellness science
Why blanket solutions like social media bans might miss the complex realities of teen mental health challenges

Dr. Jonathan Haidt’s Book

The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness (Affiliate link)

Jump to highlights

00:45 Introduction of today’s episode

01:40 Haidt explains that after reviewing many research studies with his colleagues Jean Twenge and Zach Rausch, social media doesn’t just happen to show up alongside mental health problems in teens – it’s actually creating them. The research shows that social media use leads to increased anxiety and depression, rather than simply being something that anxious and depressed teens tend to use more often

05:28 According to Dr. Gray, despite potential placebo effects boosting results, researchers found mostly no significant improvements in well-being from reducing social media use, only small effects on loneliness and depression that could easily be explained by chance

12:20 Dr. Amy Orben’s Specification Curve Analysis is a sophisticated attempt to show how research choices affect outcomes

15:12 A study by Schwartz found that both the group that quit Instagram AND the control group that kept using it normally BOTH improved on measures of depression and self-esteem, which the researchers admitted might just be because being in a study about social media usage made people more aware of their usage

26:54 Dr. Twenge’s studies of over 100,000 teens found heavy social media users were twice as likely to report depression, low well-being, and suicide risk, especially girls

31:42 Dr. Orben uses a technique called Specification Curve Analysis, which is a way to evaluate how the choices a researcher makes affect the study outcomes

34:35 Some of the factors that are bigger contributors than screen time usage

42:53 Dr. Orben describes repeating technology panics: radio, comics, TV, video games, now social media. Research lags behind fears, creating cycles where society panics about new tech before understanding previous ones

50:19 People tend to agree with yes/no questions regardless of content, even contradictory statements. Question-wording heavily influences responses, inflating correlations due to response style rather than genuine opinions

54:00 Wrapping up

References

Haidt, J., & Rausch, Z. Better mental health [Ongoing open-source literature review]. The Coddling. https://www.thecoddling.com/better-mental-health

Johns Hopkins Medicine. Premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD). Johns Hopkins Medicine. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/premenstrual-dysphoric-disorder-pmdd

Martin, J. L. (2002). Power, authority, and the constraint of belief systems. American Journal of Sociology, 107(4), 861-904. https://doi.org/10.1086/343192

Mueller, A. S., & Abrutyn, S. (2024). Addressing the social roots of suicide. In Life Under Pressure (pp. 191-218). Oxford University Press. https://doi.org/10.1093/oso/9780190847845.003.0008

NHS Digital. (2020). Mental health of children and young people in England, 2020 [Data set]. UK Data Service. https://doi.org/10.5255/UKDA-SN-9128-2

Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health. (2020, March). Suicide. State of Child Health. https://stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/mental-health/suicide/

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246: My Parenting Feels Off Track: Reparenting Helps You Find Your Way Back

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 25 May 2025 20:00:00 +0000

Do you ever feel like your parenting is completely off track from where you want it to be? You promise yourself you won’t yell, then find yourself yelling at your kids before breakfast.

You intend to be patient and present, but end up getting distracted by your phone, or snapping at your child. This disconnect between your parenting intentions and reality can leave you feeling guilty, ashamed, and afraid that you’re passing on intergenerational trauma despite your best efforts.

In this episode, we reveal the origins of our harsh inner critic and how cultural expectations set parents up for struggle. You’ll discover practical reparenting techniques, step-by-step self-compassion exercises, and how recognizing your emotional triggers can transform your parenting journey.

This isn’t about perfect parenting – it’s about healing your own childhood wounds through a process called reparenting, so you can break intergenerational patterns and build the connection with your child you’ve always wanted.

Questions This Episode Will Answer

How can I identify and manage my emotional triggers in parenting?

Emotional triggers often originate from unhealed childhood experiences. Notice when you have outsized reactions to your child’s behavior—these point to areas needing healing. The episode offers a self-compassion exercise to help you treat yourself with the same kindness that you treat others. Creating space between trigger and reaction allows you to respond intentionally rather than reactively.

How does my inner critic affect my ability to parent effectively?

Your inner critic—which is often a voice of your parent/caregiver—triggers shame spirals that make it harder to parent effectively. It damages your relationship with yourself and teaches your children to develop their own harsh inner critics. Through reparenting, you can recognize this voice isn’t truly yours, but one you absorbed from your environment. Learning to quiet this voice creates space for authentic connection with your child and breaks intergenerational trauma patterns.

What is reparenting and how can it help my relationship with my child?

Reparenting is giving yourself what your parents couldn’t provide during your childhood. It involves a five-step process: becoming aware of your patterns, accepting them without judgment, validating your childhood experiences, reframing your beliefs, and taking action to reinforce new patterns. When you heal your own emotional wounds through reparenting, you become more capable of meeting your child’s needs without being triggered.

How do I break intergenerational trauma patterns in my parenting?

Breaking intergenerational trauma starts with awareness of the patterns you inherited. Practice self-compassion exercises when triggered rather than self-criticism. Use the reparenting process to heal your own childhood wounds. Find supportive community to help you recognize when old patterns emerge. Each time you respond differently to your child than your parents did to you, you’re disrupting the cycle of intergenerational trauma.

Can self-compassion exercises really help when I’m triggered with my kids?

Yes, self-compassion exercises are powerful tools for managing parenting triggers. Dr. Susan Pollak’s three-step self-compassion exercise can create the mental space needed to respond differently: acknowledge the difficulty (“This is hard”), remember your common humanity (“Other parents struggle with this too”), and offer yourself kindness (“What do I need right now?”). Regular practice builds your capacity to access self-compassion even in intense trigger moments.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

How to identify your emotional triggers in parenting and their connection to intergenerational trauma
A practical three-step self-compassion exercise for managing triggered moments with your children
The complete five-step reparenting process to heal your own childhood wounds
How schema therapy concepts explain the origins of your parenting triggers
Why intergenerational trauma persists and specific practices to break the cycle
Step-by-step self-compassion exercises you can practice daily to build emotional resilience
How traditional parenting tools can unintentionally continue the cycle of intergenerational trauma
Practical reparenting techniques to meet both your needs and your child’s needs simultaneously

FAQs

How do I know if I’m dealing with intergenerational trauma in my parenting?

Signs of intergenerational trauma in parenting include having intense emotional reactions that feel disproportionate to the situation, finding yourself saying things your parents said to you despite promising yourself you wouldn’t, or noticing patterns of behavior that resemble how you were parented. The good news is awareness is the first step in breaking these patterns, and reparenting techniques can help you heal.

What’s the difference between reparenting and regular parenting skills?

Reparenting focuses on healing your own childhood wounds by meeting needs that weren’t met when you were young. Traditional parenting tools focus primarily on changing your child’s behavior. Reparenting addresses the root causes of your emotional triggers, allowing you to show up more authentically with your child.

How do I practice self-compassion when I think I’ve failed as a parent?

Start with a simple self-compassion exercise: put your hand on your heart, acknowledge the pain (“This feels really hard right now”), remember you’re not alone (“Many parents struggle with this”), and offer yourself kindness (“I’m doing my best in a difficult situation”). Regular practice of self-compassion exercises builds your capacity to extend compassion to yourself even in moments of perceived failure.

Can I really change deep emotional triggers if they’re connected to childhood trauma?

Yes, you can change your response to emotional triggers through consistent reparenting practice and self-compassion. The five-step reparenting process helps you recognize triggers, understand their origins in your own childhood, and develop new responses. This work takes time and often benefits from community support, but thousands of parents have successfully reduced their triggering and broken intergenerational trauma patterns.

How do I start reparenting myself if I don’t even know what I needed as a child?

Begin by noticing when you’re triggered with your child—these moments often reveal exactly what you needed and didn’t receive. Pay attention to your emotional reactions and physical sensations when parenting feels hard. Try this self-compassion exercise: when triggered, ask yourself, “What did I need in similar situations as a child?” Then imagine giving that very thing to your younger self. Community support can also help you identify unmet childhood needs that may not be immediately obvious to you.

If you want help to break down the changes you want to make into tiny manageable steps and be held (gently!) accountable for taking them (or adjusting course if needed…), we’d love to have you join the group of likeminded parents in the membership.

Get the information you need and the support to actually implement it, all in what members call “the least judgmental corner of the internet.”

The The Parenting Membership is now open for immediate enrollment. Sign up now!

Other episodes mentioned:

Jump to highlights:

00:54 Introduction of today’s episode

04:25 These difficult moments don’t define you as a parent or prove you’re doing something wrong. Parents everywhere, regardless of background, culture, or family structure, experience this same disconnect between who they want to be and how they actually respond when things get challenging

05:18 Self-compassion can actually create some breathing room that we parent desperately need rather that continuing the pattern with shame and self-criticism. Self-compassion allows us to hold our struggles with kindness and self-compassion isn’t just something to make us feel better about ourselves. We can actually think of it as a circuit breaker for our brain that allows us to respond differently next time

13:53 When your self-critical voice takes over and tells you to shape your child’s behavior, you risk losing your connection with them. That’s why things seem like they’re off track, because if they were on track, you would feel close to each other

15:40 Three-step process that Dr. Pollak uses to access some self-compassion in difficult moments

17:48 The deepest human need that we all share is to be truly seen and accepted for who we are, not for our achievements or for our good behavior, but for our whole authentic selves

22:39 One of the most powerful discoveries Jen have made in her parenting journey is that raising children gives us a huge opportunity to heal ourselves

23:46 Five main categories of schemas that affect how we see ourselves and others

26:40 Five-step process that we can use, that is drawn from schema therapy.

32:53 What Jenny experienced in the ACTion group and how it changes her parenting strategies

35:40 What advice would Elyse offer for a parent who has joined the membership and who hasn’t sure how to engage with all the resources available

38:07 Stephanie’s experiences in the ACTion group

41:20 An open invitation for Parenting Membership

42:58 Wrapping up the discussion

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RE-RELEASE: Finding Your Parenting Village: How Community Support Changes Everything at Home

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 18 May 2025 20:00:00 +0000

Are you tired of facing family challenges alone? In this powerful episode, we witness the transformative journey of two parents who discovered that joining a parenting support group can change everything at home.

Parenting wasn’t meant to be a solo journey. When sleep deprivation, communication struggles with partners, and children’s big emotions become overwhelming family challenges, the right parenting support group makes all the difference. This episode shows how connecting with a supportive parenting community helped transform 45-minute tantrums into 10-minute conversations, restore sleep after years of exhaustion, and address family communication challenges in ways that parenting books alone never could.

Now, more than ever, we need each other. In this re-released episode from two years ago, you’ll hear authentic stories that will inspire you to find your own parenting support group and experience the profound changes that happen when parents help each other overcome family challenges.

Questions This Episode Will Answer

How can I find a parenting support group when I don’t have family nearby?

Distance from extended family doesn’t mean you must face family challenges alone. This episode demonstrates how intentional parenting support groups can provide even more targeted help than your actual family. You’ll learn how to connect with parents who share your values and family challenges, not just parents who happen to live close to you. These parenting support groups create meaningful connections that provide practical help, emotional support, and accountability.

How do I find a parenting support group with members who won’t judge me?

Finding non-judgmental parenting support begins with seeking communities built on mutual understanding rather than competition. This episode shows how specialized parenting support groups create safe spaces where you can share family challenges honestly – even showing up in tears or looking completely exhausted – without fear of judgment.

Can a parenting support group really help with my child’s emotional outbursts?

Yes! When parents learn tools like radical listening through supportive parenting groups, children’s emotional regulation challenges improve dramatically. This episode demonstrates how one parent reduced tantrum duration from 45 minutes to just 10 minutes by applying techniques learned in her parenting support group.

How do I balance everyone’s needs when family challenges leave me exhausted?

Meeting everyone’s needs begins with recognizing your own. This episode reveals how a parenting support group provides permission to prioritize self-care (especially sleep) as the foundation for better addressing your family challenges, including your children’s and partner’s needs.

Can a parenting support group help with partner communication challenges?

Absolutely. You’ll hear how a parenting support group helped identify and address difficult family communication patterns where one partner was agreeing to things they didn’t want just to end discussions. Now the partners have an effective framework for honestly communicating about family challenges and needs.

What’s more valuable for addressing family challenges – parenting courses or a parenting support group?

While quality parenting information matters, this episode reveals how the combination of both creates the most powerful approach to family challenges. You’ll hear how structured parenting support groups help you actually implement tools you learn, rather than just collecting more information about family challenges.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Practical ways to find and build your own parenting support group
How parenting support groups transform sleep challenges through accountability and permission for self-care
The power of techniques learned in parenting support groups to dramatically reduce children’s emotional outbursts
Methods for improving partner communication about parenting decisions and family challenges
Why vulnerability in parenting support groups creates stronger families
How to move beyond parenting advice to create lasting transformation of family challenges
What happens when parenting support group members invest in each other’s success rather than competing
The surprising ways parenting support groups free up energy for better addressing family challenges
Why small, intentional parenting support groups create deeper change than large forums
How to recognize when you need support for family challenges and actually receive it effectively

Frequently Asked Questions

What is a parenting support group and why do I need one for family challenges?

A parenting support group is a community of other parents who provide emotional support, practical advice, and accountability for addressing family challenges. Unlike most online parenting forums, an intentional parenting support group helps you implement tools consistently, validates your struggles with family challenges, and creates space for growth. Research shows parents with strong parenting support networks experience less stress and make more consistent decisions when facing family challenges.

How can parenting support groups help with sleep deprivation challenges?

Parenting support groups provide accountability, permission for self-care, and practical tools for sleep challenges. When you share your sleep-related family challenges with supportive parents, you’re more likely to prioritize your rest needs, implement consistent routines, and identify strategies that work for your family’s specific situation.

How do I find the right parenting support group for my specific family challenges?

Finding the right parenting support group involves looking for communities aligned with your values, moderated by experienced facilitators, and structured for meaningful connection. Seek parenting support groups where members share family challenges openly without judgment, offer experience-based support rather than just advice, and create consistent opportunities for deeper connection.

Can parenting support groups really improve relationship challenges with my partner?

Yes, quality parenting support groups can transform partner relationships by identifying communication patterns, providing tools for expressing needs clearly, and creating frameworks for resolving parenting disagreements and family challenges.

What makes small parenting support groups more effective than large online forums for family challenges?

Small parenting support groups create psychological safety through consistent membership, deeper relationships, and personalized support for family challenges. Unlike large forums where advice comes from strangers, small parenting support groups allow members to understand each family’s unique context, provide relevant suggestions for specific family challenges, and offer accountability over time, leading to more sustained positive changes.

Can parenting support groups help with the unique family challenges of raising a child with special needs?

Specialized parenting support groups are particularly valuable for parents facing the family challenges of raising children with special needs or unique situations. These parenting support groups connect you with others confronting similar family challenges, provide specialized knowledge beyond general parenting advice, and offer understanding that may not be available in your geographic community.

Get the information you need and the support to actually implement it, all in what members call “the least judgmental corner of the internet.”

The Parenting Membership is now open for immediate enrollment. Sign up now!

Jump to highlights:

00:54 Introduction of today’s episode

03:23 Jenny and Emma came up with the idea to record an episode for the podcast to talk about how their parenting has changed over the last year

04:30 Emma wasn’t having major problems, but wanted to be prepared for the challenges that may happen down the road

05:23 Jenny was struggling because she hadn’t had a full night’s sleep in 4 ½ years…and now prioritizes herself through the support of Emma and the members of the ACTion group

08:50 Because Emma is a high achiever, she imagined parenthood to be a breeze

10:45 Jenny believed that if you are prepared and serene, and you bring this calm energy to your pregnancy, you will have an easy child

13:36 The lack of understanding of our values is what causes us to be conflicted about becoming parents

15:41 Our child’s big feelings are their way of letting us know that they are not okay.

20:10 It’s great to have a community who we can trust, and who will support and respect our values

22:40 The ACTion group conversation once a week gives parents a foundation to parent more intentionally

25:00 Emma used the problem-solving method to find a solution for her child’s resistance during nail cutting by trying to hypothesize her child’s feelings.

29:37 Needs can be met when you remove the ‘shoulds.’

31:12 Emma’s parenting has been a lot less tense over the past year and a half, which was a wonderful surprise

32:45 Jenny saw big changes when she used a deep listening technique with her son during an episode of intense anger and frustration

35:03 Talking about how Parenting Membership change Jenny’s life

46:40 It’s life-changing to see a profound change in our children and ourselves when both of our needs are fulfilled

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245: Does praise help or hurt your child? What research actually shows

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 11 May 2025 20:00:00 +0000

Most parents believe praise is an essential tool for raising confident, well-behaved children. We’ve been told to “catch them being good” and “focus on the positive.” But what if our well-intentioned praise is actually functioning as a subtle form of control? What if praise isn’t just celebrating who our children are, but secretly shaping them into who we—or society—want them to become?

In this episode, we’ll examine how praise affects children’s self-concept, motivation, and behavior. We’ll explore research on praise’s effects, reflect on our own experiences with praise growing up, and draw on philosophical ideas to understand praise as a tool of power that teaches children to internalize social norms and regulate their own behavior. We’ll also learn new tools to create more authentic relationships with our children and helping them develop true autonomy.

Click here to download the list of 55 Ways to Support, Encourage, and Celebrate Your Child Without PraiseIs praise harmful to children?

Praise can function as a form of control, establishing a conditional relationship where your approval depends on your child’s actions. The underlying message becomes: “I’m excited about you when you do what I want.” This contradicts what children need to flourish: unconditional love and acceptance for who they are, not what they do.

What’s the difference between praise and appreciation?

Praise is evaluative language that judges a person’s actions or character as “good” or “bad.” Appreciation focuses on the impact someone’s actions had on you personally. For example, instead of “good job setting the table,” try “Thank you for setting the table—I really appreciate not having to do it myself.”

Does praise help motivate children?

Research on praise’s effects is mixed. Some studies suggest rewards undermine intrinsic motivation, while others indicate they can help establish habits. The more important question isn’t whether praise works to change behavior in the short term, but what it teaches children about themselves and their worth in the long term.

How does praise affect a child’s development?

Praise can create dependency on external validation. Many adults who received substantial praise as children become reluctant to attempt things they aren’t already good at for fear of not receiving praise or worse, receiving criticism. This is often where perfectionism emerges—not from high standards but from fear that without perfection, they won’t be valued or loved.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

You’ll discover what praise actually is and recognize when you might be praising your child without realizing it. Praise includes evaluative language like “good job,” “you’re so smart,” or “I’m proud of you,” and is typically given with the intention of encouraging children to repeat behaviors.

You’ll explore how praise functions as more than just emotional encouragement—it operates as a form of social control. When we praise children for certain behaviors, we’re teaching them what society values and expects, defining what’s “normal” and desirable.

You’ll understand how children internalize our surveillance through praise. They begin monitoring themselves according to external standards rather than developing their own internal value system.

You’ll learn practical alternatives to praise, including genuine appreciation that acknowledges specific actions and their impact, curiosity about your child’s experiences and perspectives, and connection based on truly seeing your child rather than evaluating their behavior or person.

Frequently Asked Questions

Will my child still behave well if I stop praising them?

When we relinquish our role as judges and evaluators of our children’s worth, we free them to become their authentic selves. Moving beyond praise creates space for genuine connection based on understanding needs and discovering creative approaches to meeting both your needs and your child’s needs.

What can I say instead of “good job”?

Instead of evaluative praise, you can describe what you observe (“You gave Mario half the cookie, and now he’s smiling!”), ask thoughtful questions about what aspects of their project they found most satisfying, or express genuine appreciation for how their actions affected you.

How do I know if I’m praising or appreciating my child?

Appreciation focuses on the effect your child’s action had on you rather than evaluating their character. Avoid labels like “You’re so thoughtful” and instead express how their action made you feel or helped you.

Do children need praise to feel loved?

Children need to experience unconditional love and acceptance for who they are, not what they do. They need to know you’re excited about them regardless of their performance or behavior.

Jump to highlights

00:46 Introduction of today’s episode

03:28 Definition of praise

05:47 When we use praise as a tool to make our children repeat behaviors we want, we’re still trying to control them, just with a nicer voice and smile. We’ve changed our approach but not our fundamental goal of managing their actions

11:58 Just because you get what you need from an interaction doesn’t mean the other person feels equally satisfied

15:12 Our dependency on external validation affects our parenting and risks creating the same dependency in our children through praise

24:48 When we look beyond whether praise gets children to complete chores or affects their motivation, we discover how it fundamentally shapes their relationship with authority and their sense of autonomy. Philosopher Michel Foucault’s concept of “normalizing judgment” shows that praise functions as more than just encouragement. It establishes power dynamics between parents and children

27:58 Self-determination theory, which helps us to see on a step-by-step basis, how we develop motivation to do specific tasks

32:00 Current parenting advice favors specific over generic praise. This approach is used as positive reinforcement to encourage children to repeat the praised behavior

34:50 Belgian researchers Bart Soenens and Maarten Vansteenkiste identified four adolescent response patterns to perceived parental control, including rule enforcement, punishments, and conditional rewards or praise

43:45 Researchers concluded that toddler defiance often reflects healthy autonomy and independence, not poor parenting, while ignoring parents is linked more to children of depressed, less responsive mothers

49:09 Behaviorists view praise as reinforcement encouraging repeated behavior, but McHugh argues it’s more; it reflects authority, shaping which behaviors and qualities are deemed worthy of recognition in children

01:00:27 Wrapping up the discussion

References

McHugh, H. (2025). From oppressive to progressive praise: How, why, and when to praise in conditions of oppression. Journal of Progressive Education, 12(3), 145-162.

Corpus, J. H., Ogle, C. M., & Love-Geiger, K. E. (2006). The effects of social-comparison versus mastery praise on children’s intrinsic motivation. Motivation and Emotion, 30(4), 333-343. https://doi.org/10.1007/s11031-006-9039-4

Soenens, B., & Vansteenkiste, M. (2020). Taking adolescents’ agency in socialization seriously: The role of appraisals and cognitive-behavioral responses in autonomy-relevant parenting. New Directions for Child and Adolescent Development, 2020(173), 7-26. https://doi.org/10.1002/cad.20370

Lepper, M. R., Greene, D., & Nisbett, R. E. (1973). Undermining children’s intrinsic interest with extrinsic reward: A test of the “overjustification” hypothesis. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 28(1), 129–137. https://doi.org/10.1037/h0035519

Kohn, A. (2018). Punished by rewards: The trouble with gold stars, incentive plans, A’s, praise, and other bribes (25th ed.). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.

Lumanlan, J. (July 2, 2017). Episode 042: How to teach a child to use mannershttp://yourparentingmojo.com/captivate-podcast/manners/

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RE-RELEASE: How to get your child to listen to you

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 04 May 2025 20:00:00 +0000

Is your child’s refusal to listen driving you CRAZY? You’re not alone! In this transformative episode, mom-of-three Chrystal reveals how she went from constant power struggles to peaceful cooperation without sacrificing authority. Discover the exact approach that works when “because I said so” fails. Stop the exhausting battles TODAY and create the respectful relationship you’ve always wanted with your child.

Questions This Episode Will Answer:

Why won’t my child listen to me? Children resist when their needs aren’t being met. Understanding what’s beneath the “not listening” transforms power struggles into opportunities for connection and cooperation.

How do I get my child to listen without threatening or bribing? Focus on identifying both your needs and your child’s needs, then problem-solve together to find solutions that work for everyone. This creates willing cooperation rather than reluctant compliance.

Will my child ever listen the first time I ask? Yes! When children know that you’ll try to meet their needs as well as your own, they become MUCH more willing to collaborate with you. The path to first-time listening isn’t through control but through connection.

Am I creating an entitled child by not demanding immediate compliance? Actually, the opposite is true. Children raised with respectful problem-solving develop stronger empathy, better boundary recognition, and more social skills than those raised with strict obedience requirements.

How do I handle emergencies when I need immediate compliance? Create a foundation of trust by respecting autonomy in non-emergency situations. When true emergencies arise, children who trust you will respond to your urgency because they know you don’t overuse your authority.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode:

The powerful shift from control-based parenting to needs-based problem-solving
Why resistance is a signal that needs attention, not defiance that needs punishment
How to identify your real non-negotiables versus situations where flexibility serves everyone
Practical examples of problem-solving conversations that create willing cooperation
The critical difference between limits (changing someone’s behavior) and boundaries (what you’re willing to do)
How to teach children about healthy boundaries by respecting theirs
Why “stop means stop” and “no means no” are essential teachings (and how to get your child to respect your ‘stop’ and ‘no’)
How to recognize when you’re getting triggered by your child’s “not listening”
The surprising truth about how respectful parenting creates more socially capable children
Why one intentional parent can make all the difference, even without perfect partner alignment

If you’re thinking “but my child NEEDS to learn to listen,” this episode directly addresses how this approach creates MORE compliance in situations that truly matter.

Ready to transform your daily battles into peaceful cooperation? Take the next step in our Setting Loving and Effective Limits workshop. Click the image below to sign up.

Jump to highlights:

00:45 Introduction of today’s episode

02:00 An open invitation to join the Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits workshop

06:12 Chrystal’s experience in the Setting Loving (&Effective!) Limits workshop

07:46 Saying NO to our child isn’t necessarily the right answer

08:48 Challenges that Chrystal had as someone who was brought up in a religious family

11:44 How resilience will play a big role in our children

13:10 Chrystal’s transition from being controlled to having freedom and autonomy

13:50 As a result of having a strong-willed child, Chrystal experiences a lot pushback and challenges

17:01 When to set limits and boundaries to our children

19:18 Ways to navigate our younger child when we need to take a pause in a situation

21:42 The difference between setting limits and boundaries

23:00 The importance of respectful parenting

24:20 Using body cues instead of saying NO

26:31 Introduction to Problem-Solving Conversation: Nonjudgmental Observation

32:52 Our children’s resistance creates a “US and THEM” scenario

39:54 The lessons that Chrystal learned from the book called Siblings Without Rivalry.

43:48 White presenting child plays a big role in changing the systems

46:02 Wrapping up the discussion

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244: Gentle parenting doesn’t have to mean permissive parenting

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 27 Apr 2025 20:00:00 +0000

Is gentle parenting just permissive parenting in disguise? This episode reveals a powerful framework for meeting both your needs and your child’s, creating cooperation without sacrificing connection.

Is gentle parenting the same as permissive parenting?

No, gentle parenting is not the same as permissive parenting. Gentle parenting focuses on meeting both the child’s and the parent’s needs with respect and empathy. Permissive parenting prioritizes the child’s desires without setting appropriate boundaries or considering the parent’s needs. Parents can be gentle without being permissive by understanding and meeting their own needs, as well as their child’s needs.

Why don’t logical consequences and offering limited choices always work?

Logical consequences and offering limited choices don’t always work because they are often strategies to control a child’s behavior rather than addressing the underlying needs driving that behavior. When a child is acting out, they may be seeking connection, autonomy, or have other unmet needs. Logical consequences and choices don’t meet these needs, so the behavior continues.

How can I set effective limits without sliding into permissiveness?

To set effective limits without becoming permissive, understand that your needs matter just as much as your child’s. Identify the underlying need you’re currently trying to meet with a limit, and identify strategies that honor both your needs and your child’s. This prevents you from prioritizing the child’s desires while neglecting your own needs, which is characteristic of permissive parenting.

What’s the difference between a natural consequence and a logical consequence?

A natural consequence is what naturally occurs as a result of an action such as touching a hot stove and getting burned. A logical consequence is an action that a parent takes as a result of an action, such as taking away screen time because a child didn’t do what they were told.

How can I meet both my needs and my child’s needs in challenging situations?

Meeting both your needs and your child’s needs starts with identifying the underlying needs driving the behavior in challenging situations. If a child is stalling at bedtime, they may need connection. A parent can meet this need by spending time with the child before bed, reading an extra book, or engaging in a quiet activity together. This could the child’s need for connection, while also meeting the parent’s need for the child to go to bed at a reasonable time.

What’s the underlying cause of my child’s resistance to everyday routines?

The underlying cause of a child’s resistance to everyday routines is often an unmet need. For example, resistance to putting on shoes may stem from a need for autonomy (if the child wants to do it themselves), or connection (if they want you to do it for them). By recognizing the need, you can find ways to involve the child in the process, such as letting them choose which shoes to wear, giving them a sense of control and making the routine more cooperative.

Is there an alternative to the four traditional parenting styles?

Yes, there are alternatives to the four traditional parenting styles (neglectful, authoritarian, permissive, and authoritative). Dr. Diana Baumrind, who created the styles, also found a ‘harmonious’ method where parents consider the child’s ideas as just as important as their own, which sounds a lot like Gentle Parenting – but she decided not to research it further!

What you’ll learn in this episode

In this episode, we challenge the common misconception that gentle, respectful parenting is the same as permissive parenting.

You’ll learn why traditional parenting tools like logical consequences and offering limited choices often don’t work in the long run. Logical consequences are essentially punishments that don’t address the underlying needs causing resistance, while offering limited choices doesn’t truly respect a child’s autonomy.

The episode introduces a powerful alternative framework focused on understanding both your needs and your child’s needs. You’ll see how identifying these needs opens up multiple strategies for cooperation without power struggles. Through real examples like Cori’s story with her toddler who resisted toothbrushing for a year, you’ll witness how this approach can transform seemingly impossible situations.

We critique the traditional four parenting styles, explaining how they were originally developed as models of parental control rather than approaches to building healthy relationships. We introduce a version of gentle parenting that considers children’s needs as equally important as parents’ needs – not more, and not less.

You’ll gain practical language tools for setting clear boundaries and fostering genuine autonomy. These simple phrases can dramatically shift your interactions from struggle to cooperation.

By the end of this episode, you’ll understand how to set necessary limits while still respecting your child’s autonomy and building connection. You’ll see that it’s possible to parent effectively without resorting to power-over approaches – or becoming permissive.

FAQs

What’s the difference between gentle parenting and permissive parenting?

Gentle parenting focuses on treating children with respect and understanding the needs behind behaviors, while still maintaining appropriate boundaries. Permissive parenting, on the other hand, prioritizes the child’s needs over the parent’s needs, allowing children to “walk all over” parents. The key distinction is that this version of gentle parenting acknowledges that both the parent’s and child’s needs matter equally.

Why do logical consequences feel uncomfortable to use?

Logical consequences often feel uncomfortable because they’re essentially punishments dressed up in friendly-sounding language. They attempt to control children’s behavior rather than addressing the underlying needs causing resistance. When we implement logical consequences, we’re using our power over our children in ways we wouldn’t consider acceptable in adult relationships.

My child resists everyday routines like toothbrushing and getting dressed. What’s really going on?

Resistance often signals unmet needs. For example, a child who stalls at bedtime may have an unmet need for connection with you. A child who refuses to get dressed might be seeking autonomy (if they want to do it themselves) or connection (if they want your help). Instead of focusing on changing the behavior, try to identify and address the underlying need. Sometimes meeting needs in one area (like autonomy) can reduce resistance in seemingly unrelated areas.

What can I say instead of “I can’t” when setting boundaries with my child?

Using “I am not willing to…” instead of “I can’t…” acknowledges that you’re making a choice based on your needs rather than suggesting you have no choice. For example, instead of saying “I can’t play now, I have to cook dinner,” try “I’m not willing to play right now because I need to prepare our meal.” This language models honest boundary-setting and acknowledges that you’re prioritizing certain needs over others in that moment.

How can I encourage cooperation without resorting to limited choices or consequences?

Start by asking “Are you willing to…?” which acknowledges your child’s autonomy. Ensure this is a genuine choice they can say no to. When resistance occurs, get curious about the underlying needs rather than insisting on compliance. Find creative solutions that meet both your needs, like washing hands with a cloth at the table rather than insisting they go to the sink, or inviting them to help with dinner preparation if they’re seeking connection.

What if my child seems to have an insatiable need for connection?

Some children do have stronger needs for connection than others. Check in with yourself to see if you’re able to meet their need without sacrificing your own needs. When you notice feelings of frustration, anger, or resentment arising, these are signals that it’s time to set a boundary. Using “I’m not willing to…” language helps you honor both your needs and teaches your child that setting boundaries is a healthy part of relationships.

How is this approach different from the traditional parenting styles?

The four traditional parenting styles (authoritarian, authoritative, permissive, and neglectful) were originally described by Dr. Diana Baumrind as “models of parental control” rather than approaches to building healthy relationships. They focus on controlling children’s behavior rather than meeting everyone’s needs. Interestingly, Baumrind actually identified a fifth approach she called “harmonious” parenting, which resembles the needs-based approach discussed in this episode, but didn’t pursue researching it further.

How can I tell if I’m being permissive?

You’re being permissive when you consistently prioritize your child’s needs over your own. If you notice feelings of resentment building up or find yourself thinking “they always get their way,” these are clues that you might be sliding into permissiveness. The alternative isn’t strict control but rather ensuring that both your needs and your child’s needs are acknowledged and addressed.

And if you want my complete framework for how to navigate misbehavior, with ALL FIVE of the tools we can use and guidelines on exactly WHEN to use each of them, sign up for the Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits.

Click the banner to learn more.

Other episodes mentioned:

Jump to highlights

01:21 Introduction of today’s episode

02:47 Many parents believe that gentle, respectful parenting inevitably leads to being permissive. This episode challenges that misconception, arguing that the “slippery slope” from respectful to permissive parenting isn’t inevitable. We’ll examine why gentle parenting doesn’t mean surrendering authority and explore alternatives to both permissiveness and strict authoritative approaches

05:50 Dr. Baumrind identified four methods of parental control, but also found a fifth “harmonious” approach used by parents who rejected the demandingness scale. These parents treated their children’s needs as equally important as their own. The six children raised with this approach showed positive outcomes, especially girls, whom Dr. Baumrind noted were “easy to control,” reflecting her criteria for effective parenting

10:29 Getting out the door on time, stopping sofa jumping, or ending screen time aren’t actual needs—they’re strategies we use to meet deeper needs like physical safety, peace, or feeling competent as parents. Understanding the difference between strategies and true needs helps us see what’s really driving our parenting decisions

21:24 Logical consequences are actually punishments created by parents, unlike natural consequences, which occur without parental intervention. Natural consequences happen organically without requiring a parent to decide or enforce the outcome

23:55 Logical consequences in parent-child relationships likely count as more than one negative interaction because parents hold significant power over children and serve as primary attachment figures, unlike the adult relationships the Gottmans studied

29:00 When we recognize the underlying need behind a child’s behavior, we can find strategies meeting both our needs, instead of relying on logical consequences. With a very young child, offering choices can “work” because they don’t fully see that the choices you’re offering are not meeting their need for autonomy

36:21 We shouldn’t try to address connection needs only during rushed morning routines. Instead, we should take a broader approach, ensuring we meet our children’s connection needs throughout the day. When children feel consistently connected, they won’t desperately seek attention during high-pressure moments like morning departures or bedtime routines

38:57 When children seek more connection, we introduce boundaries by first checking in with ourselves. If you’ve met your own needs and can approach your child with an open heart, consider whether their connection request either meets your own need for connection or doesn’t prevent you from meeting another need. In these situations, both your needs and your child’s needs are being met, creating a positive outcome

44:09 When our parents were not being permissive but rather balanced, we agreed when both our needs aligned, and set boundaries when our needs weren’t being met. This approach teaches children that boundaries are valuable life skills

44:40 Wrapping up the discussion

45:30 An open invitation for Setting Loving (&Effective!) Limits workshop

References

Lumanlan, J. (2017, January 08). Episode 020: How do I get my child to do what I want them to do? Your Parenting Mojo. https://yourparentingmojo.com/captivate-podcast/compliance/

Lumanlan, J. (2023, April 9). Episode 181: Why ‘giving choices’ doesn’t work – and what to do instead. Your Parenting Mojo. https://yourparentingmojo.com/captivate-podcast/givingchoices/

Lumanlan, J. (2022, February 6). Episode 148: Is spanking a child really so bad?. Your Parenting Mojo. https://yourparentingmojo.com/captivate-podcast/spanking/

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243: Parent Conflict Over Discipline: How to Get on the Same Page

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 20 Apr 2025 20:00:00 +0000

“How can we get on the same page about discipline?” is one of the most common questions parents face. Before having kids, most couples never realize how different family backgrounds, experiences, and parenting beliefs will collide into seemingly unbridgeable differences. This episode explores practical tools to navigate these differences, from de-escalating tense moments to having productive conversations that honor both parents’ needs while creating consistency for your children.

Questions this episode will answer

Why do my partner and I have such different approaches to discipline?

Your differing approaches likely stem from your own childhood experiences, family values, and what you’re trying to “fix” from your upbringing. You might also have different core needs you’re trying to meet — one parent might prioritize structure and predictability while another focuses on emotional connection. Understanding these differences is key to finding common ground rather than seeing your partner as “wrong.”

How do I handle it when my partner disciplines our child in a way I don’t agree with?

When your partner uses a disciplinary approach you disagree with, jumping in to defend the kids often escalates the situation. Instead, try a de-escalation approach: help everyone regulate with your calm presence, validate each person’s feelings, and offer a simple solution that gives everyone an out while preserving dignity. Save deeper discussions for later when kids aren’t present.

How can I talk to my partner about discipline without starting a fight?

Approach conversations without judgment by framing the discussion around shared goals (“Can we talk about what we want to do when the kids don’t listen?”) rather than criticizing their approach (“You’re too harsh with the kids”). The episode offers 10 indirect questions to help you understand the origins of your partner’s beliefs about discipline.

What if my partner thinks gentle parenting “doesn’t work”?

If your partner is using your imperfect moments as “evidence” that your approach doesn’t work, start with self-compassion. We look at how to use tools like The Feedback Process to explore your different ideas and find ways to move forward together.

How can we create a consistent approach that respects both our parenting styles?

Start by understanding what’s driving each of your approaches rather than just focusing on behaviors. When you identify the underlying needs you’re both trying to meet—whether it’s creating structure, ensuring emotional connection, or teaching responsibility—you’ll often find common ground. The episode provides indirect questions you can use to understand how your childhood experiences have shaped your parenting values. Then you can work together to determine what success looks like for both of you, examine what actually happens with different approaches, and create hybrid solutions that honor each person’s core values while giving your children the consistency they need.

What you’ll learn in this episode

How to use self-compassion when parenting differences arise

Self-compassion is essential when navigating differences in discipline approaches with your partner. Dr. Kristin Neff’s research shows self-compassion includes self-kindness versus self-judgment, common humanity versus isolation, and mindfulness versus over-identification. Practice treating yourself with the same kindness you’d offer a friend when you make mistakes or struggle to align with your partner.

The de-escalation approach for heated discipline moments

Instead of undermining your partner in the moment, learn to de-escalate by helping everyone regulate, validating all feelings without taking sides, and offering simple solutions that preserve dignity. This approach prevents your child from triangulating between parents or one parent becoming the “rescuer” while the other is the “bad guy.”

How to have non-judgmental conversations about discipline

Traditional feedback is given by one person to another, but in parenting you’ll be more on the same page when you learn collaboratively. This approach helps avoid criticism, which often triggers the Four Horsemen of relationship conflict: criticism, defensiveness, contempt, and stonewalling.

Understanding the validation ladder for better communication

Learn the steps of Dr. Caroline Fleck’s Validation Ladder to help you deeply understand your partner’s concerns. Validation shows “you’re there, you get it, and you care” — essential for helping your partner to feel seen and understood before tackling differences.

How to identify and address the needs behind discipline styles

Your partner’s preference for certain discipline strategies is their best attempt to meet their needs. Learn to identify needs like competence, ease, respect, order, peace, connection, and recognition. Understanding these needs transforms how you view disagreements — what looks like being “too harsh” might be meeting a need for competence, while being “too soft” might be meeting a need for connection.

FAQs

How do I stop the good cop/bad cop dynamic with my partner?

Break the good cop/bad cop pattern by identifying the underlying needs driving each approach. When you understand these, you can create an approach to dealing with your child’s behavior that’s more likely to meet both of your needs. Have regular check-ins about what’s working and what needs adjustment, away from the children.

What should I do when my partner yells at our kids?

In the moment, focus on de-escalation rather than confrontation. Move closer to provide a calming presence, acknowledge everyone’s feelings without blame (“I can see we’re having a hard time”), and offer a simple solution that gives everyone an out. Save the deeper conversation for later when you’re both calm and the kids aren’t present. When you do talk, focus on understanding what triggered the reaction rather than criticizing.

Why does my partner parent so differently than I do?

Parenting approaches are deeply influenced by our own childhood experiences, cultural backgrounds, and personal values. Your partner’s discipline style likely reflects their attempt to either replicate what worked in their family or correct what didn’t. Understanding these origins through curious, non-judgmental conversations can help you see their approach as making sense given their history, even if you disagree with it.

How can I get my partner to be more consistent with discipline?

Instead of focusing on changing your partner, work together to identify shared parenting goals and values. Use the Feedback Process described in the episode to learn together rather than one person critiquing the other. Determine success criteria together, look at what actually happens when different approaches are used, and construct new understanding about what would work better for your family.

What if my partner disagrees with my parenting approach completely?

In the Parenting Membership, we learn communication strategies based in the Gottman Method to address challenges with our partners. When we understand the deep needs behind our partner’s approach to discipline (and they understand ours too), we can usually find a path forward that comes much closer to meeting both of our needs. You’ll see couples arguing much like you and your partner argue now, and then quickly learning new tools that help you to talk about issues you disagree on without either of you getting triggered.

And we’ll give you a preview of those tools in the Full Experience of the Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits workshop!

Click the banner to learn more.

Jump to highlights:

01:21 Introduction of today’s episode

04:55 Self-compassion researcher Dr. Kristin Neff identifies three components: self-kindness versus self-judgment, common humanity versus isolation, and mindfulness versus over-identification. When struggling with parenting differences, we need all three elements. Instead of harsh self-criticism about parenting conflicts, pause and offer yourself the same kindness you’d give a friend in your situation

08:12 Validation simply acknowledges the legitimate feelings underneath because we all want to be understood by others

12:20 Joellen explains that the feedback process is a process of learning where a learner constructs their own understanding of the information to be able to make it their own

15:55 10 Questions that parents might consider asking to their partner to help get a better understanding of how each parent think of these issues about parenting

18:15 Dr. Fleck identifies validation as crucial for authentic relationships, allowing us to feel seen and loved for who we are. Without validation, others aren’t relating to our true selves. This connects to Joellen Killion’s feedback process, where participants must understand each other’s wants, listen to different perspectives, and find common ground. The goal is mutual respect where neither person claims expertise, but both voices are valued

20:30 Four horsemen of the apocalypse are: criticism, defensiveness, contempt and stonewalling

25:30 The beauty of identifying needs is that while strategies for meeting needs can conflict like a strict consequence system versus a more collaborative approach, the underlying needs rarely do

27:45 Introducing Setting Loving (&Effective!) Limits Workshop

33:02 When criticism defines a relationship, facing more criticism feels overwhelming. Retreating into silence and handling things separately seems easier than risking additional pain

34:31 A little introduction on Parenting Membership

47:04 When discussing parenting disagreements constructively, you can explore values without damaging your relationship, instead actually strengthening your connection without emotional tailspins

50:02 Setting Loving (&Effective!) Limits Workshop and Parenting Membership information

References

Lumanlan, J. (2020, October 18). Episode 122: Self-Compassion for Parents. Your Parenting Mojo. https://yourparentingmojo.com/captivate-podcast/selfcompassion/

Lumanlan, J. (2024, April 14). Episode 209: How to get on the same page as your parenting partner. Your Parenting Mojo. https://yourparentingmojo.com/captivate-podcast/parentingpartners/

Lumanlan, J. (2025, March 23). Episode 241: Validating children’s feelings: Why it’s important, and how to do it with Dr. Caroline Fleck. Your Parenting Mojo. https://yourparentingmojo.com/captivate-podcast/validation-dr-caroline-fleck/

Lumanlan, J. (2025, April 13). Episode 242: The secret to having feedback conversations your family will actually hear. Your Parenting Mojo. https://yourparentingmojo.com/captivate-podcast/feedback-family-will-hear/

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242: The secret to having feedback conversations your family will actually hear

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 13 Apr 2025 20:00:00 +0000

Have you ever shared an observation with your partner or child, only to watch them immediately become defensive or shut down? You meant well, but somehow your words landed as criticism instead of the helpful insight you intended.

In this episode, we explore The Feedback Process framework with Joellen Killion, examining how we can transform our family communications. When we participate in the feedback process effectively, we create conversations that family members can actually hear—conversations that lead to lasting positive change rather than defensiveness and resistance.

Questions this episode will answer

Why do our attempts to share observations with family members often lead to defensiveness?
What’s the difference between criticism and participating in the feedback process?
How can we frame our observations so they’re received as helpful rather than hurtful?
What specific language patterns help family members stay open to what we’re sharing?
How can we create feedback conversations that strengthen relationships instead of damaging them?
How does shifting from “waiting to respond” to “truly listening” transform the entire feedback dynamic?
How can we teach children to participate in the feedback process constructively?

What you’ll learn in this episode

The key components of The Feedback Process framework and how they transform family communications
Practical techniques to share observations without triggering defensiveness in your partner or children
Specific language patterns that help feedback recipients stay open to what you’re sharing
How to recognize when feedback isn’t being received and what to do about it
The crucial difference between criticism and constructive feedback
Ways to create a family culture where feedback strengthens relationships rather than damaging them
How participating in the feedback process builds emotional intelligence in children
Practical examples of transforming common family conflicts through effective feedback conversations

This episode provides practical tools to break cycles of criticism and defensiveness, creating space for authentic communication that leads to positive change in your family relationships.

Joellen Killion’s book

The Feedback Process (Affiliate link)

Other episodes mentioned

Jump to highlights

00:57 Introduction of today’s guest.

04:17 Key distinction between the traditional feedback that we usually practice and the feedback process.

09:50 When we encourage our partners, children, and siblings to express their views and desires, we acknowledge that we don’t have authority over them. True connection comes from understanding what others want, sharing our perspective, and finding mutual agreement.

14:55 When parents define success differently, navigate this by exploring each other’s underlying values without judgment, sharing your perspective, finding common ground, and experimenting with compromises that honor both viewpoints while meeting your child’s needs.

20:52 Create space for productive dialogue by focusing on the agreement versus the action, and inviting reflection rather than demanding explanations, you maintain connection while addressing inconsistency. This helps parents recommit to thoughtfully revising agreements when needed.

27:48 The feedback typology and how we know what type of feedback to use in any given situation.

32:48 Examples of what the feedback process looks like in the regulate middle stage, and the metacognitive reflect stage.

35:19 What does reflecting and metacognition look like with a child and with a parenting partner?

38:56 The stages of the feedback process.

40:11 Situations given by Joellen in which we can determine if it is construction knowledge or deconstruction knowledge.

49:26 Success comes from finding the middle ground that allows for consistent parenting. We can examine specific situations where we approached our child’s emotions differently, analyzing how each of us felt, how our child reacted, and the ultimate outcomes. From this analysis, we can construct an ideal approach that incorporates both perspectives.

55:55 The first question in the feedback process is what do you want to learn about the topic, because it shows a small indication of motivation, openness, and willingness to learn

57:46 The difference between giving and receiving feedback and engaging in the feedback process or a learning process.

59:10 Wrapping up the discussion.

References

Bing-You, R. G., & Trowbridge, R. L. (2009). Why medical educators may be failing at feedback. Jama, 302(12), 1330-1331.

Black, P., & Wiliam, D. (1998). Assessment and classroom learning. Assessment in Education: principles, policy & practice, 5(1), 7-74.

Bok, H. G., Teunissen, P. W., Spruijt, A., Fokkema, J. P., van Beukelen, P., Jaarsma, D. A., & van der Vleuten, C. P. (2013). Clarifying students’ feedback‐seeking behaviour in clinical clerkships. Medical education, 47(3), 282-291.

Butler, D. L., & Winne, P. H. (1995). Feedback and self-regulated learning: A theoretical synthesis. Review of educational research, 65(3), 245-281.

Hattie, J., & Timperley, H. (2007). The power of feedback. Review of educational research, 77(1), 81-112.

Kluger, A. N., & DeNisi, A. (1996). The effects of feedback interventions on performance: a historical review, a meta-analysis, and a preliminary feedback intervention theory. Psychological bulletin, 119(2), 254.

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241: Validating children’s feelings: Why it’s important, and how to do it with Dr. Caroline Fleck

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 23 Mar 2025 20:00:00 +0000

What exactly is validation? Dr. Fleck defines it as communication that demonstrates you are mindful, understand, and empathize with another person’s experience, thereby accepting it as valid.

In this illuminating conversation with Dr. Caroline Fleck, author the book Validation, we explore the powerful concept of validation and how it can transform your relationship with your child. Dr. Fleck is a licensed psychologist, corporate consultant, and Adjunct Clinical Instructor at Stanford University.

After the conversation with Dr. Fleck, I provide my own perspective on the third part of her book. While I found the first two parts on validation techniques extremely valuable and immediately applicable, I share some concerns about using validation as a tool for changing children’s behavior. I explore the ethical considerations of consent-based relationships with children and offer an alternative approach focused on understanding needs rather than modifying behavior. The conversation gives you an overview of the very useful validation framework, while the conclusion honors my commitment to respectful, needs-based parenting approaches that maintain children’s autonomy and inner experience.

Questions this episode will answer

How do I validate my child’s feelings when they’re having a meltdown?
Does validating my child’s emotions make tantrums worse or last longer?
What should I say when my child is upset about something that seems trivial?
How can I tell the difference between validating feelings versus validating bad behavior?
What are the most effective words to use when validating my child’s emotions?
How does validation help my child develop emotional regulation skills?
What happens if I’ve been unintentionally invalidating my child’s feelings?
Is it possible to validate feelings while still setting necessary boundaries?
What simple validation techniques can I start using today with my child?

What you’ll learn in this episode

Simple, practical phrases to validate your child’s feelings during difficult moments
How to respond when your child is upset about something that seems small (like a broken cracker)
The step-by-step validation ladder you can use with children of all ages
Why saying “You’re OK!” actually makes tantrums worse and what to say instead
How validation helps your child develop emotional regulation skills faster
Easy mindfulness techniques to stay calm when your child is emotional
Specific examples of validation for common parenting challenges
How to validate feelings while still maintaining important boundaries
Ways to repair your relationship if you’ve been unintentionally invalidating
The connection between childhood validation and long-term mental health

Whether you’re dealing with tantrums, big emotions, difficult conversations, or just want to build a stronger connection with your child, the validation techniques shared in this episode provide a foundation for healthier relationships and emotional well-being.

Dr. Fleck’s book

Validation: how the skill set that revolutionized psychology will transform your relationships, increase your influence, and change your life (Affiliate link)

Jump to highlights

00:57 Introducing today’s episode and guest speaker

04:06 Definition of validation by Dr. Caroline Fleck

04:38 Importance of validation in our relationships

08:27 The idea that facts are debatable, you have fundamentally uprooted the basis for determining validity

14:44 How does validating other people helps us?

16:48 The role of validating our kid’s feelings in some kinds of situations

20:07 Gender differences in terms of ability to validate and willingness to learn about validating

23:48 Invalidation is one of the single greatest contributors to mental health problems that we often know

27:02 It is possible to develop a self-validation wherein you progress the skills to validate yourself

28:38 The validation ladder has eight skills that map to one or more of those qualities

31:57 How does Dr. Fleck relate “attending” into one of the mindfulness skills

33:56 The other important qualities to attending in non-verbal which is a very critical way of communicating

36:02 Copying is also one of the two important skills that are located at the bottom of the validation ladder

46:23 Equalizing is the idea that anyone in your shoes would always do the same thing

47:48 Proposing is sharing an idea about what you think the other person is thinking or feeling based I what they’ve said in the conversation

54:34 Validating the other person’s worth by demonstrating that you put their experience by sharing

56:09 Dr. Caroline Fleck summarizes the discussion

58:44 Jen’s thought about the third part that focuses on behavioral change and why she took a different approach

01:02:09 DBT is a behaviorist-based approach which serves an important purpose in clinical settings where adults have specifically sought help for behaviors that are causing them distress.

01:08:58 Wrapping up the discussion

References:

Adrian, M., Berk, M. S., Korslund, K., Whitlock, K., McCauley, E., & Linehan, M. (2018). Parental validation and invalidation predict adolescent self-harm. Professional psychology: research and practice, 49(4), 274.

Greville-Harris, M., Hempel, R., Karl, A., Dieppe, P., & Lynch, T. R. (2016). The power of invalidating communication: Receiving invalidating feedback predicts threat-related emotional, physiological, and social responses. Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology, 35(6), 471-493.

Haas, A. P., Eliason, M., Mays, V. M., Mathy, R. M., Cochran, S. D., D’Augelli, A. R., … & Clayton, P. J. (2010). Suicide and suicide risk in lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender populations: Review and recommendations. Journal of homosexuality, 58(1), 10-51.

Holopainen, R., Lausmaa, M., Edlund, S., Carstens-Söderstrand, J., Karppinen, J., O’Sullivan, P., & Linton, S. J. (2023). Physiotherapists’ validating and invalidating communication before and after participating in brief cognitive functional therapy training. Test of concept study. European Journal of Physiotherapy, 25(2), 73-79.

Krause, E. D., Mendelson, T., & Lynch, T. R. (2003). Childhood emotional invalidation and adult psychological distress: The mediating role of emotional inhibition. Child abuse & neglect, 27(2), 199-213.

Linton, S. J., Flink, I. K., Nilsson, E., & Edlund, S. (2017). Can training in empathetic validation improve medical students’ communication with patients suffering pain? A test of concept. Pain reports, 2(3), e600.

Martin, C. G., Kim, H. K., & Freyd, J. J. (2018). In the spirit of full disclosure: Maternal distress, emotion validation, and adolescent disclosure of distressing experiences. Emotion, 18(3), 400.

Ruan, Y., Reis, H. T., Clark, M. S., Hirsch, J. L., & Bink, B. D. (2020). Can I tell you how I feel? Perceived partner responsiveness encourages emotional expression. Emotion, 20(3), 329.

Shenk, C. E., & Fruzzetti, A. E. (2011). The impact of validating and invalidating responses on emotional reactivity. Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology, 30(2), 163-183.

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240: How to prepare your kids for the real world

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 16 Mar 2025 20:00:00 +0000

In this episode, we explore how to prepare children for the real world without sacrificing their authentic selves. Drawing on research about food habits, screen time, social expectations, and discipline approaches, this discussion offers balanced strategies that prioritize connection over control. You’ll learn how to guide children through external pressures while helping them develop critical thinking skills and maintaining their inherent wisdom.

Questions this episode will answer

How can I help my child navigate a world of hyper-palatable foods without creating unhealthy food relationships?
What’s the evidence about screen time and video games, and how can I approach them constructively?
How do social systems pressure children to conform to limiting gender roles and expectations?
Is traditional discipline truly preparing children for the “real world,” or is there a better approach?
How can I honor my child’s authentic self while still giving them tools to succeed?

What you’ll learn in this episode

The truth about BMI measurements and research on body size that contradicts common assumptions
How the Division of Responsibility model can transform mealtime struggles
Why video games don’t increase violence and may offer surprising benefits
Practical ways to help children develop critical thinking about media messages
How to identify the unmet needs behind challenging behavior
The concept of “traumatic invalidation” and its impact on children’s development
Step-by-step approaches to build children’s self-regulation around screen time
How to create meaningful conversations about problematic messages in children’s books
Ways to validate children while preparing them for life’s challenges

This episode offers a thoughtful examination of the tensions between societal pressures and children’s innate wisdom, providing practical guidance for parents navigating these complex territories. Rather than offering quick fixes, we focus on building connection as the foundation for helping children develop resilience and discernment.

Jump to highlights

00:56 Introducing today’s episode

02:29 All kinds of cultural implications may be involved in what our children consume

04:35 Mealtimes can be stressful for children who likes to consume bread rather than to eat healthy foods like vegetables

07:12 Explaining what is a bliss point of a product

10:41 Things that help parents to navigate a world of hyper-palatable foods without creating unhealthy food relationship

15:07 Video games often reflect our broader societal values

16:35 Ways on how to help your child develop a healthy relationship with screens while preparing them for the digital world that they will inhabit

22:57 When a video game portrays a male character as warrior and a female character as healer, it often gives the same division of human qualities that pressure boys and girls

24:10 Choosing where the families live will significantly shape what children learn about social structures

26:19 Steps on how parents prepare our children for the reality while helping them develop into individuals

33:09 What is time-out teaching our children about relationship and their place in the world

42:12 How parent’s experiences shape our children to fit in the society

51:05 Acceptance of our own circumstances in dealing with our own child can be helpful at times

58:07 Wrapping up the discussion

References

Linehan, M.M. (2021). Building a life worth living. New York: Random House Trade Paperbacks.

Moss, M. (2013, February 20). The extraordinary science of addictive junk food. The New York Times. Retrieved from: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html

National Center for Education Statistics (1996). Do rich and poor districts spend alike? Author. Retrieved from:

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs/web/97916.asp#:~:text=Districts%20with%20high%2Dincome%20households,to%20spend%20for%20public%20education.&text=districts%20with%20moderate%2Dto%2Dhigh,student%20(%245%2C411%2D%20%244%2C774).

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215: Why will no-one play with me?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 30 Jun 2024 20:00:00 +0000

Discover insights on why no one will play with your child and explore effective strategies for building social skills in children

Does your child have big emotional blow-ups in social situations?

Are they a wallflower who doesn’t know how to make friends?

Do they struggle to understand when it’s appropriate to interrupt, tell the truth, and follow the rules vs. let things go.

I’ve been interested in neurodivergence for a while – I’m hoping to do an episode soon on parenting with ADHD, and in the course of research for that a parent in the Parenting Membership recommended the book Why Will No-One Play With Me.

The book is designed to help parents teach their children social skills – and I do think it has some useful ideas in it, but there are some pretty big caveats.

This episode takes a look at the broader set of research on teaching children social skills to ask whether we CAN do it, and if we can, whether we SHOULD do it, and if we should, what kinds of tools should we use? The popular Social Stories method? Role plays? Peer coaching?

This episode answers questions like:

What types of teaching are likely to be beneficial?
How can we teach social skills to Autistic children and children with ADHD, as well as neurotypical children?
What are the potential later-life impacts of lagging social skills (and do what we miss when we look at it from this perspective)?
At what age range is teaching social skills is most likely to succeed?
How can we knowwhetherwe should teach a child social skills?

Other episodes mentioned:

Jump to highlights:

00:52 Introducing the topic for this episode

02:59 Social skills programs show small, temporary effects and are more effective when led by experts, with mixed results for neurodivergent children.

09:38 Programs to teach social skills often try to change how neurodivergent kids act and they don’t always work well.

24:01 Dr. Carol Gray’s Social Stories ™ help children, especially those with autism, understand social situations without directly aiming to change their behavior.

28:59 Terra Vance’s adaptations of Social Stories ™ highlight how they sometimes fail to address children’s real experiences and emotions.

33:28 Research on parent-led interventions for children with ADHD and autism vary in effectiveness.

43:24 The book “Why Will No One Play With Me” doesn’t provide specific references to support its ideas, making it unclear if they’re based on research or opinion.

46:30 Teaching social skills includes managing emotions, understanding social norms, and practicing simulations for better responses.

50:49 The “Play Better Bridge to Betterment” model in Why Will No One Play With Me categorizes children’s readiness for change into stages: pre-contemplation, contemplation, preparation, action, and maintenance. It emphasizes that children may need support to recognize and modify behaviors.

53:10 Caroline Maguire’s approach in “Why Will No One Play With Me” mirrors problem-solving methods, yet it prioritizes a reward system over understanding children’s underlying needs.

55:02 Maguire’s method in “Why Will No One Play With Me” uses rewards to shape children’s behavior, raising concerns about parental control and consent in interactions with their children.

56:46 Maguire’s book concludes with exercises aimed at understanding social interactions and unspoken rules, but it raises concerns about imposing norms without considering individual needs and communication styles.

01:02:41 Maguire’s book discusses challenges with school communication norms favoring concise storytelling, which often align with White communication styles.

01:06:11 Social skills training often overlooks children’s consent and preferences, focusing instead on adult-determined goals, which may affect trust and authenticity in social interactions.

References

Autistically Alex (2019, April 1). Autism Speaks… Blog post. Author. Retrieved from: https://autisticallyalex.com/2019/04/01/autisticorganizations/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR10yNr3UglHOUWRGWJMfp_uMpyxpfAtXMw99wSyTgMg8BvBmFSoaPko7iE_aem_AU39ONZlb1_LzKuEMMXqgiicT3Vb-tICXVSQowCO3RsQvHAmymztsPxNO0P7mN8voYq6oFbq5Ji0aN19xc6ddW0Z

Beelmann, A., & Losel, F. (2021). A comprehensive meta-analysis of randomized evaluations of the effect of child social skills training on antisocial development. Journal of Developmental and Life-Course Criminology (7), 41-65.

Capodeci, A., Rivetti, T., & Cornoldi, C. (2019). A cooperative learning classroom intervention for increasing peers’ acceptance of children with ADHD. Journal of Attention Disorders 23(3), 282-292.

Chan, J., Lang, R., Rispoli, M., O’Reilly, M., Sigafoos, J., & Cole, H. (2009). Use of peer-mediated interventions in the treatment of autism spectrum disorders: A systematic review. Research in Autism Spectrum Disorders 3(4), 876-889.

de Mooij, B., Fekkes, M., Scholte, R.H.J., & Overbeek, G. (2020). Effective components of social skills training programs for children and adolescents in nonclinical samples: A multilevel meta-analysis. Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review 23: 250-264.sorder. Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders 42, 1895-1905.

Dekker, V., Nauta, M. H., Timmerman, M. E., Mulder, E. J., van der Veen-Mulders, L., van den Hoofdakker, B. J., … & de Bildt, A. (2019). Social skills group training in children with autism spectrum disorder: a randomized controlled trial. European Child & Adolescent Psychiatry 28, 415-424.

Dogan, R.K., King, M.L., Fischetti, A.T., Lake, C.M., Mathews, T.L., & Warzak, W.J. (2017). Parent-implemented behavioral skills training of social skills. Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis 50, 805-818.

Find Yaser (2016, April 20). I am Autism commercial by Autism Speaks. Autism Speaks. Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=9UgLnWJFGHQ

Haack, L.M., Villodas, M., McBurnett, K., Hinshaw, S., & Pfiffner, L.J. (2017). Parenting as a mechanism of change in psychosocial treatment for youth with ADHD, predominantly Inattentive presentation. Journal of Abnormal Child Psychology 45(5), 841-855.

Kasari, C., Rotehram-Fuller, E. Locke, J., & Gulsrud, A. (2011). Making the connection: Randomized controlled trial of social skills at school for children with autism spectrum disorders. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 53(4), 431-439.

Locke, J., Rotheram-Fuller, E., & Kasari, C. (2012). Exploring the social impact of being a typical peer model for included children with autism spectrum disorder. Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders 42, 1985-1905.

Mathews, T.L., Erkfritz-Gay, K., Knight, J., Lancaster, B.M., & Kupzyk, K.A. (2013). The effects of social skills training on children with Autism Spectrum Disorders and Disruptive Behavior Disorders. Children’s Health Care 42: 311-332.

Meadan, H., Ostrosky, M.M., Zaghlawan, H.Y., & Yu, SY. (2009). Promoting the social and communicative behavior of young children with Autism Spectrum Disorders. Topics in Early Childhood Speical Education 29(2), 90-104.

Milne, C.M., Leaf, J.B., Cihon, J.H., Ferguson, J.L., McEachin, J., & Leaf, R. (2020). What is the proof now? An updated methodological review of research on social stories. Education and Training in Autism and Developmental Disabilities 55(3), 264-276.

Morris, S., Sheen, J., Ling, M., Foley, D., & Sciberras, E. (2021). Interventions for adolescents with ADHD to improve peer social functioning: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Journal of Attention Disorders 25(10), 1479-1496.

National Center for Education Statistics (2020). Race and ethnicity of public school teachers and their students. Author. Retrieved from: https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2020/2020103/index.asp

Newby, R.F., Discher, M., & Roman, M.A. (1991). Parent training for families of children with ADHD. School Psychology Review 20(2), 252-265.

Nordby, E.S., Guribye, F., Nordgreen, T., & Lundervold, A.J. (2023). Silver linings of ADHD: A thematic analysis of adults’ positive experiences with living with ADHD. BMN Open 13(10): e072052.

Pfiffner, L.J., Mikami, A.Y., Huang-Pollock, C., Easterlin, B., Zalecki, C., & McBurnett, K. (2007). A randomized, controlled trial of integrated home-school behavioral treatment for ADHD, predominantly Inattentive style. Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry 46(8), 1041-1050.

Schramm, S.A., Hennig, T., & Linderkamp, F. (2016). Training problem-solving and organizational skills in adolescents with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder: A randomized controlled trial. Journal of Cognitive Education and Psychology 15(3), 391-411.

Stewart, K.K., Carr, J.E., & LeBlanc, Linda A. (2007). Evaluation of family-implemented behavioral skills training for teaching social skills to a child with Asperger’s Disorder. Clinical Case Studies 6(3), 252-262.

Storebo, O.J., Gluud, C., Winkel, P., & Simonsen, E. (2012). Social-skills and parental training plus standard treatment versus standard treatment for children with ADHD – The randomized SOSTRA trial. PLoS One 7(6), e37280.

Storebø OJ, Elmose Andersen M, Skoog M, Joost Hansen S, Simonsen E, Pedersen N, Tendal B, Callesen HE, Faltinsen E, Gluud C. Social skills training for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in children aged 5 to 18 years. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2019, Issue 6. Art. No.: CD008223

Vance, T. (2020, December 4). Social Stories for Autism and the harm they can cause. Blog post. Neuroclastic. Retrieved from: https://neuroclastic.com/social-stories-for-autism/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR2CsSDrXGEGnKU-UOkDmGrziEFZZ0xRvDfQ9rIKYBzdk5tuZnq9lVCsXpM_aem_AU1ZF-3Kywuop5TXQbTRBIQD3UUBS7hGRY8Ik72rirtuw0ZLxIPGxMQyW4a3cXCRY5T9P5EZQxbzrlwwCvYOiJbp

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176: How to begin healing shame with A.J. Bond

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 20:00:00 +0000

Do you ever feel ashamed? Many people find it among their most physical emotions, resulting in a big knot of tension or a hot flush that washes over their whole body. But what is shame, and where does it come from?

I recently read a LOT of academic papers and books, and also popular books about shame, and the most helpful resource I found among all of the ones I read was written by my guest today, A.J. Bond. A.J. is a wrier and a filmmaker who experienced a shame-related breakthrough in his own therapy several years ago, and who subsequently became certified as a Healing Shame Practitioner through the Center for Healing Shame in Berkeley.

We discuss, among other things:

The origins of shame all the way back in our childhoods
What kinds of shame really are helpful in our lives
How to heal from toxic shame so we don’t pass it on to our own children

AJ’s book (Affiliate link)

Discomfortable: What is shame and how can we break its hold?

Ready to break free from the cycle of triggered reactions and conflict in your parenting journey?

If you want to:

😟 Be triggered less often by your child’s behavior,

😐 React from a place of compassion and empathy instead of anger and frustration,

😊 Respond to your child from a place that’s aligned with your values rather than reacting in the heat of the moment,

the Taming Your Triggers workshop will help you make this shift.

Join us to transform conflict into connection and reclaim peace in your parenting journey.

Click the banner to learn more!

Jump to highlights

02:05 How AJ Bond get started on understanding what shame is

05:12 What is shame?

07:15 Different versions of shame for different people

08:10 Shame is like an alarm system

10:39 The breaking of the interpersonal bridge

15:48 What does good repair look like

18:45 The rupture and repair make the relationship stronger

25:41 The cultural evolution aspect and how we evolved to be around the same pretty small group of people for a lot of the time

26:58 Shame will often feel like it’s connected to survival

31:09 Are there common reactions that people have when they’re feeling when they’re experiencing shame?

34:18 The concept of healthy shame

37:19 The 123 Punch of Shame

47:03 How our unconscious values show up in the context of our conscious and chosen values

References

Arnink, C.L. (2020). A quantitative evaluation of Shame Resilience Theory. Inquiries Journal 12(11), 1-11.

Bond, A.J. (2022). Discomfortable: What is shame and how can we break its hold? Berkeley: North Atlantic.

Brown, B. (2010). The gifts of imperfection: Let go of who you think you’re supposed to be and embrace who you are. Center City: Hazeldon.

Brown, B. (2006). Shame resilience theory: A grounded theory study on women and shame. Families in Society: The Journal of Contemporary Social Services. 87(1), 43-52.

Brown, B. (1999). Searching for a theory: The journey from explanation to revolution. Families in Society 80(4), 323-429.

Cooley, C.H. (1902). Human nature and the social order. New York: Scribner’s.

Deonna, J.A., Rodogno, R., & Teroni, F. (2012). In defense of shame: The faces of an emotion. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

DeParle, J. (2022, November 25). The expanded child tax credit is gone. The battle over it remains. The New York Times. Retrieved from: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/politics/child-tax-credit.html

Elias, N. (1978). The civilizing process (Volume 1). New York: Pantheon.

Elison, J., Garofalo, C., & Velotti, P. (2014). Shame and aggression: Theoretical considerations. Aggression and Violent Behavior 19, 447-453.

Garland-Thompson, R. (2005). Feminist disability studies. Signs: Journal of women in Culture and Society 30(2), 1557-1587.

Greenwald, D.F., & Harder, D.W. (1998). Domains of shame: Evolutionary, cultural, and psychotherapeutic aspects. In P. Gilbert & B. Andrews (Eds.), Shame: Interpersonal behavior, psychopathology, and culture (p.225-245). Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Hauser, C. T. (2016). Shame and resilience among mental health trainees: A scale construction study (Unpublished doctoral dissertation). University of Nebraska-Lincoln.

Jacquet, J. (2015). Is shame necessary? New uses for an old tool. New York: Pantheon.

Jóhannsdóttir, Á. (2019). Body hair and its entaglement: Shame, choice and resistance in body hair practices among young Icelandic people. Feminism & Psychology 29(2), 195-213.

Kendi, I.X. (2019). How to be an anti-racist. New York: One World.

Lee, R.G. (1996). Shame and the Gestalt Model. In R.G. Lee & G. Wheeler (Eds.)., The voice of shame: Silence and connection in psychotherapy (p.3-58). San Francisco: Jossey-Bass.

Lichtenberg, P. (1996). Shame and the making of a social class system. In R.G. Lee & G. Wheeler (Eds.)., The voice of shame: Silence and connection in psychotherapy (p.269-295). San Francisco: Jossey-Bass.

Mate, G. (2019). Scattered minds: The origins and healing of Attention Deficit Disorder. New York: Random House.

Mendible, M. (2016). American shame and the boundaries of belonging. In M. Mendible (Ed.), American Shame (p.1-23). Bloomington: Indiana University Press.

Morris, C. & Munt, S.R. (2018). Classed formations of shame in White, British single mothers. Feminism & Psychology 29(2), 231-249.

Morrison, A.P. (1996). The culture of shame. New York: Ballantine.

Parsons, E.M. (2020). The development and evaluation of a brief shame resilience intervention: Proof of concept in Social Anxiety Disorder. Unpublished doctoral thesis, Miami University. Retrieved from: https://etd.ohiolink.edu/apexprod/rws_etd/send_file/send?accession=miami1595594451509091&disposition=inline

Pescosolido, B.A., & Martin, J.K. (2015). The stigma complex. Annual Review of Sociology 41, 87-116.

Probyn, E. (2019). Productive faces of shame: An interview with Elspeth Probyn. Feminism & Psychology 29(2), 322-334.

O’Halloran, K. (2015). Theory, politics, and community: Ethical dilemmas in Sydney and Melbourne queer activist collectives. Unpublished doctoral dissertation. Sydney: The University of Sydney. Retrieved from: https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/handle/2123/13958/OHalloran_KT_thesis.pdf?sequence=2

Richards, R., (2019). Shame, silence, and resistance: How my narratives of academia and kidney disease entwine. Feminism & Psychology 29(2), 269-285.

Tagney, J.P., & Dearing, R.L. (2002). Shame and guilt. New York: The Guilford Press.

Scheff, T.J. (2003). Shame in self and society. Symbolic Interaction 26(2), 239-262.

Singer, A. (1996). Homosexuality and shame; Clinical meditations on the cultural violation of self. In R.G. Lee & G. Wheeler (Eds.)., The voice of shame: Silence and connection in psychotherapy (p.123-142). San Francisco: Jossey-Bass.

Stearns, P.N. (2017). Shame: A brief history. Urbana: The University of Illinios Press.

von Raumer, Wilhelm. 1857. The Education of Girls. (Cited in Elias 1978.)

Wheeler, G., & Jones, D.E. (1996). Finding our sons: A male-male gestalt. In R.G. Lee & G. Wheeler (Eds.)., The voice of shame: Silence and connection in psychotherapy (p.61-99). San Francisco: Jossey-Bass.

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175: I’ll be me; can you be you?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 08 Jan 2023 20:00:00 +0000

In this most personal episode I’ve ever created, I’ll share with you how my autism self-diagnosis has helped me to understand the experiences I’ve had in ways that bring a great deal more clarity and insight than I’ve had up to now.

In addition to hearing from me, you’ll hear the actual voicemail the therapist who has been helping me left to explain the results of my autism screeners, as well as conversations with friends about things that are hard in our friendships.

You’ll hear from listeners who find things I do on podcast episodes to be hurtful and judgmental and also relatable and approachable, and sometimes it’s the same things I do that prompts both the ‘positive’ and ‘negative’ reactions.

And you’ll hear from a listener in my membership community who has been on a similar journey to understand how her ADHD diagnosis wasn’t really about her as much as it was about her reactions to the ways her family interacted with her – they encouraged creativity and expression in her artwork, but never never never ever related to emotional expression.

My goal with this episode is to help you draw together threads in your own life in a way that maybe you haven’t been able to do until now so you can understand yourself better, and make requests to help you meet your needs, and maybe change the situations you’re in so you can be in them with more ease and authenticity.

And I also hope it helps you to see how your child’s struggles are a reflection of their needs, and of whether those needs are being met. Just as you didn’t need fixing when you were a child (and neither did I, despite all the people who tried to fix me), your child doesn’t need fixing either. Instead, we can use the struggles to better understand our needs and our child’s needs, and work toward meeting them both.

To investigate screeners that Dr. A. has available for free on her website, visit https://spectrumservicesnyc.com/resources/

Taming Your Triggers

If you need help with your own big feelings about your child’s behavior, register for the Taming Your Triggers workshop.

We’ll help you to:

Understand the real causes of your triggered feelings, and begin to heal the hurts that cause them
Use new tools like the ones Katie describes to find ways to meet both her and her children’s needs
Effectively repair with your children on the fewer instances when you are still triggered

Click the banner to learn more!

Jump to highlights:

02:52 My book is coming out on August 2023

03:29The ‘emotional intimacy’ between content creators and audiences

05:50 I looked at my racial privilege through a series of podcast episodes

06:09 I’ve also been exploring my recent autism self-diagnosis through the podcast

06:57 Dr. Andalibian’s voicemail telling me about the results of my autism screeners

10:30 I’ve always had a hard time fitting in

11:29 My entire teenage years were marked by a huge withdrawal from everything and everyone

12:33 School was miserable as well because I was good at learning but couldn’t figure out how to make friends

13:04 Gemma describes what she remembers about me

15:38 The librarian created the Library Monitor position for me

16:30 Sarah explains how we met

20:08 Sarah pointed out that there is much less ambiguity in our relationship than in many of her relationships

22:50 I was surprised to hear that Sarah found the absence of ambiguity to be a helpful part of our friendship

24:13 An example of when I’ve misstepped and didn’t know how to fix it

26:43 A listener and I chat about imposter syndrome back in 2020

28:50 A listener in my Learning Membership community said she has felt judged by some of the things I’ve said about schools

30:26 One of the characteristics of autistic people is that we see things in a very black and white way

31:35 I have some genetic autistic component that nobody knew about when I was a child

32:47 In many areas of my life, my self-reliance served me well

34:30 We are stuck in a comparison mindset

35:59 I have a new series of Q&A episodes launching this year

36:18 My parents were traumatized by their own parents’ attempts to shape them to succeed in a White supremacist, patriarchal, capitalist culture

40:11 Don’t compare yourself with me, but with the person that you might be if you weren’t held back by these old habits

41:07 Parent Claire from my Parenting Membership community shared about reading Dr. Gabor Mate’s book on ADHD called Scattered Minds

46:04 No one wins from negating their true selves

48:57 I remember one kid in my high school who was ALWAYS in trouble

50:40 Our children do things that seem like the best strategy they have to meet their needs

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167: Healing and Helping with Mutual Aid with Dean Spade

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:00:00 +0000

In this conversation with Dean Spade we resolve a long-running challenge in my understanding: when we talked with Dr. john powell on the topic of Othering and Belonging a couple of years ago we discussed how volunteering promotes othering, because it perpetuates the idea that the volunteer is a person with resources to give, and the recipient has little in the way of useful knowledge or resources of their own. Dr. powell agreed, but we didn’t have time to discuss what to do instead.

In this episode we finally punch out that lingering hanging chad of knowledge and talk with Dean Spade about the concept of mutual aid, which is the topic of his book: Mutual Aid: Building Solidarity in This Crisis (And The Next). In this conversation we discuss:

What is mutual aid, and how it’s more effective than volunteering
How we heal in community with others from the effects that benign-seeming systems like capitalism have on us
Ways to find and get involved in mutual aid projects

As Dean and I talked, I also realized how applicable these ideas are to the work I do with parents in the Taming Your Triggers workshop.

It’s not surprising that parents feel triggered by their child’s behavior when you consider the trauma that we’ve experienced. Even if you had ‘good parents,’ they still raised you to succeed within a system that told you to hide unacceptable parts of yourself so you could be ‘successful’ – which means getting good grades, going to college, getting a good job, buying a house, and raising a family. And we’re supposed to do all of this by ourselves, without relying on others – because then we’ll need to buy more stuff along the journey.

Our culture uses shame to enforce these rules and keep us in line – that’s why we feel a sense of wrong-ness when we do something that isn’t socially acceptable – like asking for help, for example.

Because these traumas happened in community, they’re most effectively healed in community as well – just as these two parents did when they built on each other’s knowledge in the workshop earlier this year (screenshot shared with permission):

If you want to jump-start your ability to actually apply that knowledge in your interactions with your children by learning in community with others, then the Taming Your Triggers workshop will help you.

Click the banner to learn more!

Dr. Dean Spade’s Book

Mutual Aid: Building Solidarity During This Crisis (and the Next) – Affiliate link

Parenting Beyond Power

The wait is over! I’m thrilled to announce that Parenting Beyond Power is now available for you to explore.

Discover practical insights and fresh perspectives that can make a positive difference in your parenting journey.

Click the banner to get Parenting Beyond Power today:

Jump to highlights

01:30 Introduction to the episode and guest speaker Dr. Dean Spade

03:24 Definition of Mutual Aid and how it’s different from Charity

08:26 How the history of Social Movement was organized by Mutual Aid

09:54 Montgomery bus boycott is one of the most famous social movement work in the history of the US

15:35 The impacts of having problematic systems and structures in our society on parents

17:16 The challenges that the radical social movement is facing

18:29 How mutual Aid functions during a crisis

23:22 Why it’s so essential to create a system of Mutual Aid in which we actually take care of each other and that doesn’t destroy people’s dignity and humanity

25:53 Why is it important to talk about Mutual Aid now

30:04 How capitalism worsens the condition of our society and why mutual aid is the only way to survive it

35:44 The importance of mutual aid in our well-being and in the society

40:09 What does Mutual Aid look like

44:53 How being involved in Mutual Aid can bring a sense of healing

46:43 Factors in our society that make us feel burnout

48:51 Dr. Spade’s way of recovering from burnout and avoidance

50:35 All powerful social movements for liberation have always been done by people who were living under the worst conditions

51:48 Importance of having a sense of urgency

53:13 Ways we should prepare for each coming emergency

54:37 How to find a Mutual Aid group in your community

References

Blakemore, E. (2018, Feb 6, updated 2021, Jan 29). How the Black Panthers’ breakfast program both inspired and threatened the government. History.com. Retrieved from https://www.history.com/news/free-school-breakfast-black-panther-party

Clarke, L. (1999). Mission improbable: Using fantasy documents to tame disaster. Chicago: University of Chicago.

Dominguez, D., Garcia, D., Martinez, D.A., & Hernandez-Arriga, B. (2020). Leveraging the power of mutual aid, coalitions, leadership, and advocacy during COVID-19. Psychology. 67. https://repository.usfca.edu/psyc/67

Fernando, C. (2021). Mutual aid networks find roots in communities of color. ABC News. Retrieved from: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mutual-aid-networks-find-roots-communities-color-75403719#:~:text=The%20African%20Union%20Society%20in,denied%20resources%20by%20white%20institutions.

Ginwright, S. (2018, May 31). The future of healing: Shifting from trauma-informed care to healing-centered engagement. Medium. Retrieved from: https://ginwright.medium.com/the-future-of-healing-shifting-from-trauma-informed-care-to-healing-centered-engagement-634f557ce69chooks, b. (1993). Sisters of the yam: Black women and self-recovery. South End Press.

Kenney, Z. (2019). Solidarity, not charity: Mutual aid in natural disaster relief. Unpublished Master’s Thesis, Northern Arizona University.

Klein, N. (2007). The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. Picador.

Kropotkin, P. (1914/2006). Mutual aid: A factor of evolution. Mineola: Dover.

National Humanities Center (2007). Mutual Benefit. Author. Retrieved from http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/maai/community/text5/text5read.htm

Sircar, O. (2022). ‘Mutual aid is present in every crisis’: An interview with Dean Spade. Jindal Global Law Review 13(1), 191-220.

Spade, D. (2010, October). For those considering law school. Author. Retrieved from: http://www.deanspade.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/For-Those-Considering-Law-School.pdf

Spade, D. (2020). Solidarity not charity: Mutual aid for mobilization and survival. Social Text 142, 131-151.

Spade, D. (2020). Mutual aid: Building solidarity during this crisis (and the next). London: Verso.

Spade, D. (2021). What is mutual aid? (Classroom version). YouTube. Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPgTZeF5Z0

Spade, D. (2021-2022). Workshop series: Building capacity for mutual aid. Author. Retrieved from: https://www.deanspade.net/category/video/ (see link for four workshops in the series, including separate presentation slides, results from live polls, and additional resources)

Steinberg, T. (2006). Acts of God: The unnatural history of natural disaster in America. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

The Praxis Project (n.d.). Centering community in public health: Recognizing healing-centered community practices as a complement to trauma-informed interventions and services. Author. Retrieved from: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5bf21032b98a7888bf3b6e21/t/5f36efa82e32e91a7703b80d/1597435824760/LC1+Brief+-+Healing.pdf

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159: Supporting Girls’ Relationships with Dr. Marnina Gonick

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 19 Jun 2022 20:00:00 +0000

I’ve been wanting to do this episode for a loooong time. We covered episodes a long time ago on how children form social groups, and what happens when they exclude each other from play, but I wanted to do an episode exploring this issue related to slightly older girls, and from a cultural perspective. There are a lot of books and articles out there on the concept of mean girls and I wanted to understand more about that. Why are girls ‘mean’ to each other? Is it really a choice they’re making…or is it a choice in response to a complex set of demands that we put on them about what it means to be female in our culture?

I had a really hard time finding anyone who was doing current research on the topic, and I mentioned this on a group coaching call in the Parenting Membership. A member, Caroline, said: “I know someone who can speak to this!”

Caroline had explored girls’ relationships in young adult literature for her master’s thesis, and knew Dr. Marnina Gonick’s work. Caroline introduced us, Dr. Gonick agreed to talk, and we all had a great conversation about girls’ role in our culture, how they are affected by it, and how they are agents of change as well. Dr. Gonick is Canada Research Chair in Gender and also holds a joint appointment in Education and Women’s Studies at Mount St. Vincent University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. She has written two books on the topic of girls’ relationships as well as a whole host of peer-reviewed articles.

Dr. Gonick also introduced me to an expert on boys’ relationships and we’re currently working to schedule an interview in a few weeks so there should be more to come on that soon!

Dr. Marnina Gonick’s Books:

Young Femininity: Girlhood, Power and Social Change 2004th Edition

Between Femininities: Ambivalence, Identity, and the Education of Girls (SUNY series, Second Thoughts: New Theoretical Formations) (Affiliate links).

Jump to highlights:

(03:36) How changes in cultural norms influence our understanding of what it means to be a girl.

(05:27) The way in which a change in behavior can help us understand the experiences of girls in general.

(06:36) What does the school curriculum say about girls that causes them to be disadvantaged in schools.

(08:35) How damaging it is for girls to be victims in a patriarchal society.

(10:25) Why our social systems aren’t necessarily organized around girls’ well-being

(12:50) The concept of girl power can be seen as either working for or against females.

(14:46) The Social Barriers to Girl Power.

(16:44) Criticisms of the movie “Mean Girls” and how they relate to the topic of empowering women in general.

(18:34) The relational aggressiveness between boys and girls.

(21:45) Why school cultures play a significant influence in bullying.

(24:19) Finding acceptable ways for girls to show their relational aggression.

(26:17) Factors that influences a child to become racist and disrespectful.

(28:07) A growing number of institutions and businesses have taken an interest in the girl power movement.

(31:34) Girls’ ways of discovering their sense of identity/sexuality.

(35:16) Different notions of sexiness in girls.

(39:28) How heterosexuality highlights femininity.

(41:24) Girls are going to be mean to each other human nature makes it inevitable.

(43:37) How important is it to understand our feelings and the feelings of our children.

References:

Aapola, S., Gonick, M., & Harris, A. (2005). Young femininity: Girlhood, power, and social change. Basingstoke: Palgrave MacMillan

Bethune, J., & Gonick, M. (2017). Schooling the mean girl: A critical discourse analysis of teacher resource materials. Gender and Education 29(3), 389-404.

Dellasega, C., & Nixon, C. (2003). Girl wars: 12 strategies that will end female bullying. New York: Fireside.

Gonick, M. (2003). Between femininities: Ambivalence, identity, and the education of girls. Albany: State University of New York Press.

Gonick, M. (2004). VII. The ‘mean girl’ crisis: Problematizing representations of girls’ friendships. Feminism & Psychology 14(3), 395-400.

Gonick, M. (2006). Between “girl power” and “Reviving Ophelia”: Constituting the neoliberal girl subject. NWSA Journal 18(2), 1-23.

Gonick, M., Renold, E., Ringrose, J., & Weems, L. (2009). Rethinking agency and resistance: What comes after Girl Power? Girlhood Studies 2(2), 1-9.

Gonick, M., Vanner, C., Mitchell, C., & Dugal, A. (2021). ‘We want freedom not just safety’: Biography of a Girlfesto as a strategic tool in youth activism. Young 29(2), 101-118.

Goodwin, M.H. (2006). The hidden life of girls; Games of stance, status, and exclusion. Malden: Blackwell.

Kehily, M.J., Ghaill, M.M.A., Epstein, D., & Redman, P. (2002). Private girls and public worlds: Producing femininities in the primary school. Discourse: Studies in the Cultural Politics of Education 23(2), 167-177.

Ludwig, T., & Adams, B. (2012). Confessions of a former bully. Decorah: Dragonfly.

Renold, E. (2006). ‘They won’t let us play…unless you’re going out with one of them’: Girls, boys, and Butler’s ‘Heterosexual Matrix’ in the primary years. British Journal of Sociology of Education 27(4), 489-509.

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157: How to find your village

Jen Lumanlan — Thu, 19 May 2022 19:00:00 +0000

For the first time, in this episode I bow out and and let listeners Jenny and Emma take over, who wanted to share how they’ve been supporting each other over the last few months.

They started from pretty different points: Emma wasn’t having parenting struggles, but often over-communicated with her husband and he would stonewall in response, agreeing to whatever she asked so she would stop talking. Then he would resist later, and she couldn’t understand why…because he had agreed, right?

Jenny’s sleep had been disturbed by her child for more than four years…she was exhausted, and had no idea how to deal with her rage-filled kindergartener who would hit her whenever he was upset.

Neither of them had much confidence that being on a Zoom call together for 40 minutes a week would help them.

Emma and her husband now communicate in a way that meets both of their needs, and can navigate the challenges that come up with their preschooler.

Jenny is sleeping! And she has learned how deep listening and true empathy help her son to feel really heard…and incidents that used to lead to 45 minute meltdowns that would disrupt the rest of the day are now over in 10 minutes, and are actually connecting for them.

Jenny and Emma did all this with a bit of information from me…but mostly by being fully present for each other in a small ‘village’ of parents, inside the slightly larger village of the Parenting Membership.

Get the information you need and the support to actually implement it, all in what members call “the least judgmental corner of the internet.”

The Parenting Membership is now open for immediate enrollment. Sign up now!

Jump to highlights:

01:00 Jenny and Emma came up with the idea to record an episode for the podcast to talk about how their parenting has changed over the last year.

01:55 Emma wasn’t having major problems, but wanted to be prepared for the challenges that may happen down the road.

02:36 Jenny was struggling because she hadn’t had a full night’s sleep in 4 ½ years…and now prioritizes herself through the support of Emma and the members of the ACTion group.

03:55 An open Invitation to join the Parenting Membership.

04:45 Because Emma is a high achiever, she imagined parenthood to be a breeze.

06:57 Jenny believed that if you are prepared and serene, and you bring this calm energy to your pregnancy, you will have an easy child.

08:24 The lack of understanding of our values is what causes us to be conflicted about becoming parents.

12:00Our child’s big feelings are their way of letting us know that they are not okay.

14:30 It’s great to have a community who we can trust, and who will support and respect our values

16:30 The ACTion group conversation once a week gives parents a foundation to parent more intentionally

18:26 Emma used the problem-solving method to find a solution for her child’s resistance during nail cutting by trying to hypothesize her child’s feelings.

20:17 Needs can be met when you remove the ‘shoulds.’

25:31 Jenny’s parenting has been a lot less tense over the past year and a half, which was a wonderful surprise.

30:48 Jenny saw big changes when she used a deep listening technique with her son during an episode of intense anger and frustration, which ended the episode much more quickly than usual!

37:25 It’s life-changing to see a profound change in our children and ourselves when both of our needs are fulfilled.

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155: How to get your child to listen to you

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 01 May 2022 09:00:00 +0000

Recently someone posted a question in one of my communities:

“Is it really so wrong to want my child to just LISTEN to me sometimes? It seems like such a no-no in gentle parenting circles, and I’m worried that my child is growing up to be entitled and won’t know how to respect authority when they really HAVE to.”

Parent Chrystal gave such a beautiful and eloquent response to this question that I asked her to come back on the show (her first visit was last year) to talk us through how she approaches getting her (three! spirited!) children to listen to her…and what tools she uses instead.And this doesn’t end up creating entitled children who refuse to cooperate with any authority figure; in fact, her most spirited child was called a “conscientious and rule-abiding upstanding model student” by her teacher (which just about made Chrystal laugh out loud).

Chrystal has been on this respectful parenting journey for a while now, but I learned during this interview that she first interacted with me in the Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits workshop, where she started transforming a lot of the battles she was having with her children into a collaborative, cooperative relationship.

Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits

If you want to make your own transformation from a relationship where your child JUST DOESN’T LISTEN to one where you have mutual care and respect for each other’s needs, then the Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits workshop is for you.

Go from constant struggles and nagging to a new sense of calm & collaboration. I will teach you how to set limits, but we’ll also go waaaay beyond that to learn how to set fewer limits than you ever thought possible. Sign up for the Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits workshop.

Click the banner to learn more.

Jump to highlights:

02:37 Reasons we get triggered when our child isn’t listening to us.

03:38 An open invitation to join the Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits workshop.

04:50 Chrystal’s manifestation that her parenting is effective.

06:06 Saying NO to our child isn’t necessarily the right answer.

06:57 Challenges that Chrystal had as someone who was brought up in a religious family.

07:58 At a young age, Chrystal was responsible for the needs of her mother and siblings.

09:58 How resilience will play a big role in our children.

10:50 Impacts on our child for having a lot of control and compliance.

11:20 Chrystal’s transition from being controlled to having freedom and autonomy.

12:26 As a result of having a strong-willed children, Chrystal experiences a lot pushback and challenges.

15:08 When to set limits and boundaries to our children.

18:04 Ways to navigate our younger child when we need to take a pause in a situation.

19:07 The difference between setting limits and boundaries.

21:15 The importance of respectful parenting.

23:09 Using body cues instead of saying NO.

25:30 Introduction to Problem Solving Conversation: Nonjudgmental Observation

26:33 Finding solutions that is grounded in meeting our needs, and the needs of our children as well.

31:02 Our children’s resistance creates a “US VS. THEM” scenario.

36:39 The unique needs of having multiple children.

37:47 The lessons that Chrystal learned from the book called Siblings Without Rivalry.

41:58 White presenting child plays a big role in changing the systems.

45:38 Chrystal’s children showing their amazing empathy and respect for one another.

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SYPM 014: The power of healing in community

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 15:00:00 +0000

When you’re learning a new skill, information is critical. Without that, it’s very difficult to make any kind of meaningful change.

But I see a parallel between learning new skills and respectful parenting: I like to say that love between parent and child is necessary but not sufficient – and that respect is the missing ingredient. With learning a new skill, knowledge is necessary – but not sufficient.

And support is the missing ingredient.

You might remember from our conversation with Dr. Chris Niebauer a while ago that our overactive left brains tend to make up stories about our experiences to integrate these experiences into the narratives we tell about ourselves.

If we’re “the kind of person who triumphs through adversity,” a setback will be taken in stride. If we’re “the kind of person who has been hurt,” each new individual hurt makes much more of a mark. The new experiences have to be made to fit with the framework that’s already in place.

Especially when you’re learning a skill related to difficult experiences you’ve had, your left brain wants to keep itself safe. It might tell you: “I don’t need to do this. Things aren’t that bad. I’ll just wait until later / tomorrow / next week.”

And when that happens, you need support. That support can be from a great friend, although sometimes you don’t want even your closest friends to know that you shout at or smack your child.

Therapy can be really helpful – but it’s also really expensive.

Sometimes the thing that’s most helpful is someone who’s learning the tools alongside you (so they aren’t trying to look back and remember what it was like to be in your situation; theirs is different, but they are struggling too…) who isn’t a regular presence in your life.

There’s no danger you’re going to run into them at the supermarket, or a kid’s birthday party.

You can actually be really honest with them and know it won’t come and bite you in the butt.

That’s what today’s guests, Marci and Elizabeth, discovered when they started working together. Separated by cultural differences, fourteen(!) time zones, and very different lives, they found common ground in their struggles and have developed a deep and lasting friendship.

If you’d like to work on taming your triggered feelings – and get help from your own Accountabuddy in the process – the Taming Your Triggers workshop is for you.

Click the banner to learn more!

Jump to highlights

01:00 Introduction to the episode and guests Marci and Elizabeth

08:23 Elizabeth’s turning point: a caregiver’s punishment and her daughter’s words

13:20 Marci’s first big shift: looking honestly at childhood and intergenerational trauma

15:54 Elizabeth on the ACE score and growing self-compassion

19:34 Elizabeth learning to see her own role in her child’s behavior

22:05 Marci’s “slot machine” image for pausing before reacting

23:51 How Marci and Elizabeth found each other as AccountaBuddies

29:29 Using Marco Polo to stay connected across a 14-hour time difference

39:02 Elizabeth’s shift: approaching her child’s big feelings like a scientist

45:02 Marci on the power of pausing and circling back after a rupture

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141: The Body Keeps The Score with Dr. Bessel van der Kolk

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 25 Jul 2021 15:00:00 +0000

How does trauma affect us?

Yes, we feel it in our brains – we get scared, frustrated, and angry – often for reasons we don’t fully understand.

But even if our brains have managed to cover up the trauma; to paper a veneer over it so everything seems fine, that doesn’t mean everything actually is fine – because as our guest in this episode, Dr. Bessel van der Kolk says: The Body Keeps The Score.

What he means is that the effects of the trauma you’ve experienced don’t just go away, and can’t just be papered over. Your body will still hold the evidence in tension, headaches, irritability (of minds and bowels), insomnia…and all of this may come out when your child does something you wish they wouldn’t.

Perhaps it’s something your parent always used to resent doing, and made it super clear to you every time they did it for you.

Perhaps it was something you did as a child and were punished for doing (maybe you were even hit for it…your body is literally remembering this trauma when your child reproduces the behavior).

Lack of manners, talking back, making a mess, not doing as you were told, being silly…even if logically you now know that these are relatively small things, when your child does them it brings back your body’s memories of what happened to you.

Dr. van der Kolk helps us to understand more about how this shows up for us. Sometimes understanding can be really helpful. But sometimes you also need new tools, and support as you learn them, and accountability.

If you’re struggling with your reactions to your child’s difficult behavior – whether you’re going into fight, flight, freeze, or fawn mode, the Taming Your Triggers wokrshop can help.

Click the banner to learn more!

Dr. Van der Kolk’s Book:

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma (Affiliate link).

Jump to highlights:

01:00 Introducing Dr. van der Kolk

01:58 Invitation to the Taming Your Triggers Workshop

02:56 A note on some technical difficulties we had while recording this episode

03:14 People often want easy answers: Talking about why we feel like we need pills and alcohol to deal with trauma and not make use of other methods which seem more beneficial

08:16 “We become who we are based on the experiences we had and these early experiences really set your expectations”

11:53 Dr. van der Kolk’s ongoing research on touch and trauma that looks into the virtually unstudied field of touch

14:42 To effectively deal with trauma, people need to discover who they are and find the words for their internal experiences

16:10 On mindfulness and yoga: the physical focus on movement in yoga may open up some space for mindfulness

20:45 Rolfing : opening up the body so that it is released from the configuration it adopted to deal with trauma

23:07 The importance of words and finding somebody who can helps you to find words as cautiously as they can, without inflicting too much of their own value system on you

25:31 Dr. van der Kolk’s current agenda for kids to be taught to have a language for their internal experience

28:27 Two of the most important scientifically proven predictors of adult function

31:26 Dr. van der Kolk talks about Developmental Trauma Disorder

38:31 The power of peer and community support in healing trauma

41:32 Wrapping up

Links:

References

D’Andrea, W., Ford, J., Stolbach, B., Spinazzola, J., & van der Kolk, B. (2012). Understanding interperonsal trauma in children: Why we need a developmentally appropriate trauma diagnosis. American Journal of Orthopsyhchiatry 82(2), 187-200.

Goessl, V.C., Curtiss, J.E., & Hofman, S.G. (2017). The effect of heart rate variability biofeedback training on stress and anxiety: A meta-analysis. Psychological Medicine 47, 2578-2586.

Haines, S.K. (2019).The politics of trauma: Somatics, healing, and social justice. Berkeley: North Atlantic.

Menachem, R. (2017). My grandmother’s hand: Racialized trauma and the pathway to mending our hearts and bodies. Las Vegas: Central Recovery Press.

Miller, A. (2006). The body never lies: The lingering effects of hurtful parenting. New York: Norton.

National Institute for the Clinical Application of Behavioral Medicine (n.d.). Frontiers in the treatment of trauma: how to target treatment to help patients reclaim their lives after trauma. The Main Session with Bessel van der Kolk, MD and Ruth Buczynski, PhD. NICABM.

Tippet, K. (2019, December 26). Bessel van der Kolk: How trauma lodges in the body. On Being. Retrieved from: https://onbeing.org/programs/bessel-van-der-kolk-how-trauma-lodges-in-the-body/

van der Kolk, B. (2017). Developmental trauma disorder: Toward a rational diagnosis for children with complex trauma histories. Psychiatric Annals 35(5), 401-408.

van der Kolk, B. (2016). The devastating effects of ignoring child maltreatment in psychiatry: Commentary on “The enduring neurobiological effects of abuse and neglect.” Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 57(3), 267-270.

van der Kolk, B.A., Stone, L., West, J., Rhodes, A., Emerson, D., Suvak, M., & Spinazzola, J. (2014). Yoga as an adjunctive treatment for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder: A randomized controlled trial. Journal of Clinical Psychiatry 75(6), e559-e565.

van der Kolk, B. (2014). The body keeps the score: Brain, mind, and body in the healing of trauma. New York: Penguin.

van der Kolk, B., Stone, L., West, J., Rhodes, A., Emerson, D., Suvak, M., & Spinazzola, J. (2014). Yoga as an adjunctive treatment for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder: A randomized controlled trial. Journal of Clinical Psychiatry 75(6), e559-e565.

van der Kolk, B. (2006). Clinical implications of neuroscience research in PTSD. Annals – New York Academy of Sciences 1071(1), 277.

van der Kolk, B., & van der Hart, O. (1989). Pierre Janet & the breakdown of adaptation in psychological trauma. American Journal of Psychiatry 146(12), 1530-1540.

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139: How to keep your child safe from guns (even if you don’t own one)

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 20 Jun 2021 15:00:00 +0000

Many of us haven’t been in each other’s homes for a while now, but pretty soon we’ll be getting together inside again. And our children will be heading inside, in their friends’ houses.

People store guns inside.

Are you certain that nobody owns a gun in any of the places your child plays?

If they do own a gun, are you certain they store it safely?

If not, you need to ask.

That’s one issue we discuss in this interview with Dr. Nina Agrawal, a board-certified pediatrician who has expertise in violence against children. She co-founded the Gun Safety Committee for the American Academy of Pediatrics in New York State, and is leading the Gun Violence Prevention Task Force for the American Medical Women’s Association.

Another issue is the gun violence that is primarily faced by children of color, which turns out to affect a far greater number of children.

And how is this all linked to the Peloton recall? You’ll have to listen in to find out…

Jump to highlights here:

(01:00) Indoor playdates are ramping up…will your child be safe?
(02:29) Introducing Dr. Nina Agrawal, pediatrician and co-founder of the American Academy of Pediatrics’ Gun Safety Committee in New York State
(02:58) Understanding how big is the scope of gun violence against children
(06:15) The Dickey Amendment: Explaining the massive lack of data and research on gun violence and safety
(11:24) The ways that gun violence affects children that we might not expect
(12:32) “I get woken up at night to the sound of gunshots.”
(17:09) The racial disparity in how children are affected by gun violence
(20:46) More people purchased guns in 2020, and there are more first-time owners too
(23:39) The statistical likelihood of children coming to harm if they live with a firearm in their household
(27:00) Just telling kids not to touch guns doesn’t work (even if you think of your child as one who is ‘sensible,’ and you’ve talked with them about gun safety)
(30:45) The Asking Saves Kids Campaign helps to keep kids safer
(33:06) The surprising link between children involved in gun violence and the Peloton treadmill recall
(36:07) In American culture, banning all guns can’t be the answer
(40:52) Effective Child Access Laws
(41:45) How to create safer environments for children through building communities

Click here to read the full transcript

Jen Lumanlan 00:02

Hi, I’m Jen and I host the Your Parenting Mojo Podcast.

Jen Lumanlan 00:06

We all want her children to lead fulfilling lives, but it can be so hard to keep up with the latest scientific research on child development and figure out whether and how to incorporate it into our own approach to parenting. Here at Your Parenting Mojo, I do the work for you by critically examining strategies and tools related to parenting and child development that are grounded in scientific research on principles of respectful parenting. If you’d like to be notified when new episodes are released, and get a free guide called 13 Reasons Why Your Child Won’t Listen To You & What To Do About Each One, just head over to YourParentingMojo.com/SUBSCRIBE. You can also continue the conversation about the show with other listeners in the Your Parenting Mojo Facebook group. I do hope you’ll join us.

Jen Lumanlan 01:00

Hello, and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo Podcast. And today we’re going to discuss a topic that I think is about to come into parents’ consciousness in a way that it really hasn’t as much over the last year. And for some of us, that’s a result of our privilege. And I was reflecting that as vaccinations for children become more available, we’re probably going to start moving towards indoor play dates without parents being around because when my daughter went into when we went into sort of lockdown, she was young enough that she wasn’t really doing playdates indoors with other people in anyone else’s houses. And so I never really felt as though I needed to ask, “Are there guns in your house?” because I was always there to supervise. And so of course, over the last year, she’s played with a lot of kids on our street, and they’re always outside and I can always hear them. And so the danger doesn’t seem to be there in the same way for me in those outdoor playdates scenarios. But of course, as vaccinations become available, and these things start to move inside, I don’t know which of my friends has guns in their houses. And if I’m kind of uncomfortable asking about this, I’m guessing that a lot of parents haven’t even thought about it and don’t have it on their collective radar yet. So I wanted to bring that up into our consciousness before we actually need it. And then, of course, there’s another issue here as well, that we’re going to delve into fairly deeply today, which is that gun violence is becoming increasingly common in a wide variety of settings that children live in and are exposed to, and that this can have really big impacts on them. And that that isn’t necessarily talked about or studied nearly as much.

Jen Lumanlan 02:29

And we have a very special guest here with us today to talk about these issues. Dr. Nina Agrawal. She’s a pediatrician who is board certified in Child Abuse Pediatrics, and she has expertise in Violence Against Children. She was on the faculty at Columbia University in Child and Adolescent Health. She co-founded the Gun Safety Committee for the American Academy of Pediatrics in New York State, and she’s leading the Gun Violence Prevention Task Force for the American Women’s Association. Welcome Dr. Agrawal.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 02:56

Thank you so much for having me, Jen.

Jen Lumanlan 02:58

All right. So I wonder if we can maybe start by just understanding how big is the scope of this problem, and piggybacking on that, how much do we know about how big is the scope of this problem, and why don’t we know as much as we might want to know?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 03:12

Right, great question. Right now, guns are the leading cause of death in children 1 to 19 years of age. Before it was motor vehicle accidents.

Jen Lumanlan 03:22

Yeah.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 03:23

Now it’s firearm. So it’s something that’s a health issue. It’s a public health issue. It’s a safety issue affecting all children.

Jen Lumanlan 03:34

Okay. And yeah, I actually hadn’t seen those latest statistics, the peer reviewed papers I was looking at from 2018 still showed it in that number two position, so. So that’s an unfortunate development over the last couple of years that that position has switched then. And it doesn’t affect everybody equally, right? It affects some children more than others.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 03:53

Yes, definitely. Racially, it affects Black children disproportionately. Blacks, and then Hispanics, and then White children.

Jen Lumanlan 04:00

Okay. And I noticed that actually, the way that this data is collected, we might think, Oh, it’s fairly easy to understand how prevalent this kind of thing is, how prevalent injuries are. And actually, there’s a couple of different ways of estimating it. But the most common way is using data from the Centers for Disease Control, which is sampled from 100 hospitals. And I’m just thinking, Okay, there are 1000s of trauma centers that are dealing with this kind of thing. Can a sample of 100 hospitals give us a complete picture of what the actual prevalence rates for this are?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 04:34

Right? Yeah, as with a lot of injuries in children, it’s a combination of hospital data and mass data and media. We’re increasingly using media data. There’s a gun violence archive that looks at shootings in communities, and then the CDC data. I think one of the problems with the CDC data is that it doesn’t include non fatal injuries and only includes fatal injuries. So we’re missing a lot of children who suffered non fatal injuries and understanding those so that we can prevent them.

Jen Lumanlan 05:09

Yeah. Okay. And I think when a lot of parents think about guns, one thing that they may be most kind of afraid of the immediate fear is of a mass shooting. Because there’s get so much publicity, right? Is that the thing that we should be the most afraid of statistically speaking?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 05:25

Statistically, definitely not. It’s 1% of shootings. So much more common is homicide, and suicide, and unintentional injuries. And then mass shootings are a small percentage, but they gain the most immediate attention. And because again, the most immediate attention, they gain the most resources – prevention resources. And so we have children dying every day from homicide and suicide and yet, we’re really not devoting the investing in prevention of deaths in those children due to firearms.

Jen Lumanlan 06:00

Yeah, okay. And I think a big reason why we’re not investing as much in the pieces of this that really matter are that we don’t understand it well enough. And there’s a reason we don’t understand much about gun violence, right? Can you tell us about that reason.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 06:15

I love telling the story. It’s a story that’s not known and once people hear about it, they’re like, Oh, my God, this makes sense. So anyhow, enough of the preamble. What it is, is that in 1994-95, there’s a study that came out in the New England Journal of Medicine that found that if you had a gun in your home, you’re a gun owner, you or somebody else in your home are more likely to die or get injured from that firearm, rather than protect yourself from an intruder. So, most people a lot of people keep it for self protection. It actually doesn’t work that way.You know, the statistics tell you you’re actually more danger from hurting yourself or somebody that you care about in your home. And so this study was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. The NRA was not happy about it, because that would affect firearm sales. And they, you know, they basically lobbied Representative Dickey of Arkansas, and Representative Dickey inserted a amendment called the Dickey Amendment after his name, saying that no funds can be used by the CDC or the NIH eventually went to the NIH that could be used to advocate or promote gun control. And so what they did is this Congress took away money from the CDC that had been used for firearm prevention research and earmarked it for concussions. And the CDC doesn’t have this pot of money where they can use it indiscriminately. It has to be earmarked for a certain, you know, injury or health issue. And so then basically, they had very limited funding and research plummeted. And it you know, that Dickey Amendment created a chilling effect on the entire research community, because funding is so limited for research and, you know, people didn’t want their funding taken away for other things that they could do research on. So gun violence research plummeted. And with that, are solutions. So this was in 1996, the Dickey Amendment passed. And every year, it gets reapproved. And there have been efforts through certain presidential administrations to try and repeal it, but it just keeps going on and on and more recently, in 2019, for the first time, the CDC was appropriated $25 million for gun violence prevention research. And I just want to make a distinction between gun control and gun violence prevention. And the distinction is that public health issues are not trying to control an injury or an illness. We’re trying to create safety when it comes to injuries. So just like we don’t say highway control, we say highway safety. We don’t say cars control, we say car safety. We don’t say cribs control, we say crib safety. So this is gun safety. We understand that you can have guns, but we just want them to be safe around children.

Jen Lumanlan 09:22

Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that. And I just want to pull out some pieces of what you said, particularly for listeners who are outside the US. So what we’re talking about here is that the CDC is the Centers for Disease Control, and NIH is the National Institute for Health and that these organizations fund scientists working in academia to conduct studies on a whole array of things related to health, but specifically here we’re talking about gun safety issues. And the NRA, the National Rifle Association, which has an enormous amount of lobbying power here in the US, and that they had approached Jim Dickey and said, You know, this is this is something that you need to be with us on and he agreed. And I was actually interested to see that he has more recently flipped on that. And he has regretted his role in the stifling the research. He didn’t want there to be more gun control. And that was why he advocated for that, because he, he was, I think, worried that the research was going to lead to ammunition, I guess, as it were, for people who wanted gun control to put that into effect. But he now says that he regrets his role in stifling the flow of research on that. So it’s encouraging to see that we are now starting to see the spigot loosened and some money flowing through.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 10:35

Yes, for sure. Yeah, right before he actually died. But right before he died, he became before he died. Well, before he died, he became friends with the person who is Head of the CDC at the time and together, they tried to advocate for Gun Violence Prevention Research.

Jen Lumanlan 10:53

Yeah. Okay. All right. So so thank you for, for telling us that story. And it’s always amazing how the politics ends up impacting our view of public health issues. And, and I think that seeing this as a public health issue is really at the core of your approach here. And part of that is because of the way that gun violence impacts children. So I wonder if you can tell us more about your ideas and your research and thinking on how gun violence impacts children and how we should be thinking about it?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 11:24

Yes, I think we need to think about gun violence in children more broadly. We have been in the research setting, we’ve been thinking about his injuries and deaths. How do we prevent an injury? How do we prevent a death? And we’re making some headway in that, but what we want is, you know, we’re making headway in certain areas. So suicide and accidental injury. So like the toddler who picks up a gun on a play date, how do we prevent that from happening? We haven’t made a lot of inroads in homicide affecting children. And that is the most common intent in children and youth. So we haven’t made a lot of inroads and prevention of homicide. The other thing that we don’t talk about his exposure to gun violence. And when I was working in the Bronx, you know, as a pretty some of I was working in the South Bronx, and it was a busy ER, a lot of people come in with gunshot wounds, but the ones that we weren’t, weren’t coming in or weren’t presenting to medical attention, were the kids who are having mental health problems because of exposure. You know, they’re having anxiety they’re having, they’re having depression.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 12:32

I am actually authoring a book chapter on exposure. And in that included this anecdote of a five year old that I was interviewing, and I asked her about eating and sleeping and you know, school, and she said, she didn’t sleep well. Why not? And she goes, she told me there were noises that kept her up at night. I was like, Well, what were those noises and not expecting her to say this. She said they were gunshots. And I was like, Well, what do you do she when that happens? And she said, Well, I get a snack, and I go back to sleep. And it was this five year old living in this, this world of trauma in her bedroom. So the gun violence is going on physically outside her bedroom, but it’s coming through into her home, it’s coming through into her development and and her health. And what happens to those kids and from the adverse childhood experiences studies, we know that those violent exposures affect children’s health across the long term. And they you know, they may develop academic problems, behavioral problems in adolescence, with gun violence, they may become victims and perpetrators. And then later on in life, if they don’t die from gun violence, they may have chronic health issues. So basically, you know, what happens before age five children see and hear can affect their brains and their lives, the trajectory of their lives forever.

Jen Lumanlan 14:04

Yeah, yeah. And so to dig a little more deeply into some of those things that you mentioned, firstly, you said that, we’ve made some progress on the things like the accidental deaths and the suicides, which primarily impact White children. And we have not made so much progress on the homicides aspect, which primarily does not impact White children. It’s primarily Black children. And so there’s a very racially differentiated issue right on where we focused our attention where we’ve been able to make progress on this.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 14:34

Yeah. And, again, you know, unintentional injuries where a toddler picks up a gun is, again, a very small percentage of gun violence in children. The biggest bucket is homicide, but within that bucket, we haven’t made a distinction between unintentional homicide and intentional homicide. So we see this in the news all the time. You know, people are children and even adults getting hit by stray bullets, and they see the wrong place at the wrong tie but is it that person’s, you know, I guess it’s like, where does the onus? Is it that person, he shouldn’t have gone to that restaurant, he shouldn’t have gone to that place, the child didn’t go into that playground. So I think we need to make a distinction between the unintended target and the intended target. Because the dynamics are going to be different. The environments may be the same, but you know, a mother of a five year old, you know, getting shot by a stray bullet, like, how can we help her keep her child safe? Can we say, you know, look, maybe this area of your neighborhood is not safe. Or maybe we need to go to the community leaders and say, like, hey, this playground is not safe for our children. There’s shootings that happen there. They’re drug deals that happen there. Let’s make this safe. So, you know, there’s work that says that it’s found that [unrecognized] of safe green spaces, reduces shootings in communities. And I think that is, I think that’s a very viable way of keeping children safer.

Jen Lumanlan 16:03

Yeah. And also thinking back to that five year old who’s saying, you know, I get woken up at night, and what I’m hearing is gunshots and, and thinking about how that’s gonna play out in that five year olds, academic career, you know, maybe she’s asleep at school the next day, because she couldn’t, she couldn’t sleep at nighttime. And then it’s like, well, what are the parents doing? Why don’t the parents make sure she goes to bed at the right time, the parents might be seen as well, this parent is failing this child, maybe the child gets referred for a special services, because special education because she can’t concentrate because she can’t focus because she didn’t sleep at night. And so all of a sudden, we see all of these potential ramifications happening down the line of something that seems completely unrelated, like what teacher in school is going to make the connection necessarily between this child who is being referred for special services and the fact that there are gunshots in her neighborhood at nighttime. It’s such a broader issue. And we tend to focus so tightly on the individual child, like why is this child struggling? And they must need special help, when actually we just ignore the broader society these children live in right.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 17:09

Yeah, I think that’s a great, great point is that, you know, there’s exposure, and then there’s buffering that exposure, and what are the variables that buffer that exposure and that toxic stress? You know, that damage that might come to that child? And so, you know, the, you know, we talked about resilience? What is resilience? Is resilience, internal? Is it internal and external? Is it something that we can do in the children’s environment to help them be stronger? So, you know, I think the exposure element came to light when it was the Parkland youth. They you know, for the most part, you know, they grew up in a in a suburban community with resources, a resource community. They came from economically advantaged families. They were very verbal children, or verbal use. And that was very, that was a game changer. And those kids told us, look, I am depressed, I am suicidal, because of the exposure because I’ve lost friends. I’m scared that this is going to happen to me. So the trauma of that exposure became real. And this is real in Black children growing up in the South Bronx, like my little patient, but she’s not getting the resources nor the recognition, like you said that the fact she’s not doing well in school is not because she’s you know, it’s not that she’s not capable. It’s that she’s in an environment that doesn’t allow her to learn.

Jen Lumanlan 18:38

Yeah, yeah. And even deeper on what you said about the Parkland children. You know, we’re paying attention to them, because they’re expressing this in words that we choose to hear in language. Maybe there are Black children who express it through acting out, we know what is what is seen as acting out in school. They’re expressing this trauma, this post traumatic stress disorder and the other stuff that’s going on. And we see that as misbehavior as something that they need to correct as a problem. And not as an expression of “I am hurting.” There is something here that is hurting me. And we choose to kind of turn the other way and say, you know, you have a problem. We’re going to you’re going to deal with it. We’re going to suspend you, expel you, whatever, because you’re misbehaving. I mean, it’s just when you say it like that, that we listen to the Parkland children. And it’s so clear that we don’t listen to other children. What, how does that sit with you?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 19:31

Yeah, I’ve thought about this a lot. You know, and I think what it is I think about these things, because how can we change things? How can we change the language? How can we change policy, and I think language matters. And when we talk about the children, you know, like the Parkland children, like how do we create a safer school environment for children? You know, they talk about it in the schools. The lawmakers talked about it. Research has been devoted to this. How do we make Schools safer? But yet, when it comes to Black children in these economically disadvantaged communities, we don’t talk about is how do we make these children safer? We talk about it as violence prevention. We started out with a different baseline. Okay, it’s violent. How do we bring down the violence? rather than, you know, how do we make the environment safer for these children as well. They both deserve to be safer with the children, the Black children in these under-resourced communities. They don’t feel safe getting from school to home, they might feel safer in school. It’s all their environment, however you define it where children live, where they go to school, where they play, they should feel free in all of these areas. Yeah,

Jen Lumanlan 20:46

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And so, so we’re making some progress here, not enough. On the other side of this gun purchases are up. Gun purchases are up in the last year, specifically, 32% of households had guns in the US in 2016. It’s now 39%. We have 120 and a half guns for every 100 people in the US, which is more than twice as much as the second highest country, which is Yemen. And there was an article on this just the other day in the times and they interviewed people who were working at gun stores and stores that have gun counters and talking to the employees and saying, well, who is buying guns? And these employees are saying, well, it’s not the usual people, it’s not our usual clientele. This is now White people coming in. People who have never seen a gun in real life before. Who have absolutely no idea how to hold it, what to do with it, and they’re telling the store owners, we’re going to be locking down, we’re constrained to our homes, we want to keep safe. And so and that fits with a Gallup poll that it published in 2018, that found that the percentage of people who believe that having a gun in the home makes it a safe place to be rose from 35% to 63%. Between 2000 and 2014. I mean, you you already gave away the lead here, right, which is that the guns are not safe, their homes are not safer when they have guns in them. So what’s going on here? Why is there such a disconnect?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 22:10

Right, I think it’s the lack of a public health approach. And, you know, we saw this with COVID. And that when you don’t have a central approach from the CDC, you know, issuing prevention guidelines, you know, people, you know, make up their own theories, and you know, to fit whatever their needs are, and you can’t blame them. Right, if they don’t have the information, they can act on it, and they may not trust the information that they’re getting. So we need to have a public health campaign that gives, you know, evidence-based guidelines. It’s not based on politics. It’s based on what the science says. And if the science says that safe storage, decreases injuries in your children and that we all like as doctors, as school providers, we all embark upon that campaign, I think we can make a difference. But the problem is, it’s very varied right now. I do want to say, though, you know, it’s who’s buying the gun. So, you know, we are seeing more people buy guns, but it’s also in the other the populations that weren’t buying guns, like Black people are buying guns legally. Asian people are now buying guns legally. And you actually can’t blame them. You know, like, why should I be a sitting duck? If so, and so has a gun, and I don’t. So I think, you know, we need to equalize this. Guns need to be kept out of the wrong hands on all ends.

Jen Lumanlan 23:39

Okay. Okay. And so, so as the rate of gun ownership increases, there are going to be more children living in houses that have guns. It seems unlikely that only people who don’t have children are buying all of these guns. And so there have been a bunch of studies done actually, obviously, a lot of them fairly old now, because of the stifling of the research. But in 1994, more than 22 million children lived in homes in the US that had guns. 55% of these people who responded to a survey reported that they had one or more firearms in an unlocked place. Thirteen percent had firearms stored, unlocked and loaded. And so they’re incredibly accessible to young children. And these numbers may actually be an underestimate, because people know you’re not supposed to have loaded firearms in house for children. And so they may not have reported truthfully on the survey. And so in another survey, parents will say, Oh, yeah, this it’s important. I need to store my gun safely and 85% of them will say yes, safe storage is important, and then they’ll go on to say, but they don’t do it themselves. And so I think at the heart of this is is a misunderstanding of what children are capable of and that if we just tell them you know, I we have a gun, don’t touch the gun, then the children won’t touch the gun. What do you think about that?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 24:53

Yeah, there definitely is lack of knowledge in this area. The NRA, the National Rifle Association, had the Eddie Eagle campaign, and that was tailored to children. And you know, look, don’t touch the gun, you know, or if you do have a gun, this is the way to handle it safely. It didn’t work. There’s no evidence behind it. There’s no science that says that we were able to reduce injuries and deaths in children because of that campaign. What works is educating parents. If you educate parents on safe storage, not gun control, safe storage, and keeping the gun unloaded loft with the ammunition in the separate place, you can reduce unintentional injuries and suicide injuries in youth. But again, that message needs to get out there. What we mean by gun safety, we mean gun storage, safe birch, I’m sorry.

Jen Lumanlan 25:47

Yeah, yeah. And just to make it super clear, for any parent who’s thinking, Well, my kids different, my kid could tell the difference, my kid would never would never touch a real gun. Because I’ve told them not to do it, there was a fascinating study that he did, where the researchers had two water pistols and a real gun in drawers in a room. And the gun had a radio transmitter on it, that would make a light flash when the trigger was pulled hard enough to actually pull it if it was really enabled. And it was a really small study, admittedly, it was only 29 kids, they were all boys, 72% of them found the gun and 76% of those handled it, and 16 of them pulled the trigger. And about half of the boys who found the gun, were not sure if it was real or not, more than 90% of the boys who had handled the gun or pulled the trigger reported that they’d received some kind of safety instruction. So putting all of that together, children cannot tell if a gun is real or not. If they find the gun, they are probably going to handle it. And even if you have told them not to touch a gun, if they find the gun, they’re probably going to do it. So I just want to reiterate what you’re saying that teaching our children to not touch guns is not enough. It’s probably necessary, do you think, but not enough?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 27:00

It’s necessary, just like anything else, like don’t touch a hot stove. You know, things that may cause injuries. But you know, I talked about this with like lead paint, you know, like, we kept on making lead paint. And you know, you could tell kids don’t eat the paint, but they’re going to do it. We just stopped making the lead paint, and we need to make the paint safer. So what does that mean? Like with guns, you put a trigger lock on it, you put it you lock it up, because just telling a kid don’t touch it doesn’t work for really anything. And I guess to go to your study that you’re talking about, there’s a really great TV special with Diane Sawyer, where they put two boys in a room with a real gun, and they instructed the boys don’t touch it. Don’t… you know, they told them over and over again, don’t touch it. And then they leave them alone in the room and there was a camera and they’re both looking at it. They’re both looking at it. And then one kid picks it up. And the other kids, I don’t think we should do that. And the kids still the other kids still picks it up. And I think he does, like, you know, like motion on the trigger. So even if it is even if you tell a kid not to touch a real gun, you know, it’s it’s the same thing like with kids, like they want what they you know, what could be perceived as something they can’t have?

Jen Lumanlan 28:17

Mm hmm. Yeah, and it’s almost like the marshmallow test. Right. But like, if they can wait 15 minutes, they can have two marshmallows, and a lot of them can’t do it. So um, okay, so then we talked about educating parents and you’ve talked about a public health and public safety campaign is this advertising or the the primary way that I see this discussed in the literature is that pediatricians are supposed to be the ones delivering this message and that when your kid goes for their well-baby visit, the pediatrician is supposed to give you advice on this and most pediatricians are not trained in this. They have no idea what to do what to say. And so this advice is not happening right now. Do you see that as a viable way of getting this information through? Are there other more effective ways?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 28:58

Just like a public health campaign requires multiple messengers, I do think it does belong and the pediatrician in the pediatrician sphere, and for normalizing it from birth on just like, you know, we talked about the stove, you know, don’t leave your baby near a stove. Well, the babies aren’t crawling yet. But you know, hey, start, like making your room safe, or your house safe, because one day your child will get there. And we all know that children move quickly, and they’re there before you know it, and then you’re in the hospital. Before you know it with an injury that was preventable. It happens. But what can we do to prevent those things from happening? Because guns are highly lethal. And so like other unlike the other ones, like a burn, you can treat but guns, you may not have that opportunity. So yeah, I think that doctors do need to do prevention, but they don’t really have the language to do it. And it’s become this touchy thing about how to approach we do injury prevention all the time, but we don’t really have the language to do this one because it’s been politicized. Really, it should be policy. You know, as far as a play day, it becomes like, hey, my kids coming over your house. And you know, we asked about pools, if your child can’t swim, we asked about nuts, if your child’s allergic, it’s the same thing. I just want to make sure my child is safe. And do you have any guns in the house? So I probably wouldn’t just say the one thing about guns, but put it in all of the the typical injury things we ask about. And the other thing is, is that we have to meet people where they are. And it may not be, is there a gun in your house, it may be just provide the education and say, you know, if you do have a gun, this is what you know, this is what I recommend for safe storage.

Jen Lumanlan 30:45

Okay. Okay. So we’re sort of, we’re coming at this from two different perspectives here a little bit where we’re talking about how the pediatrician might influence the parent or encourage the parent to change their own storage practices in their own house. And then there’s also the how do we talk to other parents about this? And, and I think you studied the effectiveness of the Asking Saves Kids campaign, right, which is the idea of asking when your child is playing in another place, if there are guns available to them? What did you find out about the effectiveness of that program?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 31:15

Yeah, I studied it in the South Bronx, we asked parents of children being seen in our clinic and our pediatric clinic, you know, about the asking Safe Kids information, where, you know, again, it’s making sure if there’s a gun where your child plays, that it’s safely stored. They overwhelmingly wanted gun safety education from their physician. Ninety-six percent. But only 11% received it from their pediatrician. So there’s a gap in what parents want and what they’re getting.

Jen Lumanlan 31:47

Okay, yeah, I can imagine based on positions, discomfort and lack of training and all the rest of it. And also, when we’re thinking about who do you ask. If I’m the mother, it’s possible that I’m going to be interacting with another mother making plans for a playdate. And there was a study I found that said that women who are frequently not the primary gun owners, and that they often don’t know what guns are in their house and how they’re being stored. So if I’m having this conversation with another mother, it’s entirely possible that that person doesn’t know the complete picture of what’s going on in their house. So do I need to like have this message go out to both parents? Or like, how do I navigate that which I hadn’t even considered?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 32:33

Yeah, I think that’s a great point. I think you go for the parent that you have. And you ask them to distribute it to all caregivers, whoever’s taking care of your child. That’s what we tend to do, whether it’s a babysitter or the grandmother or the father, but I do want to take a note that or make note that domestic violence from firearms is a public health issue as well. And so I think it is an area we don’t talk about enough, you know, screening mothers for domestic violence related to firearms.

Jen Lumanlan 33:06

Yeah, yeah. And then just sort of while we’re on this topic of issues in the home as it were, you said something we had a call two weeks ago just to check that the alignment was right with the kinds of topics that you’re studying and what I was looking to cover on this episode and you said something that just caught my attention so much, you were talking about how Peloton Treadmills are being recalled. That one child has died as a result of interacting with the Peloton Treadmill 72 reports have been received about users, children, pets, other objects getting pulled onto the back of the treadmill. Of course any death of a child is tragic but what what does this Peloton recall say to you?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 33:45

Yeah, I was watching the news and they said you know there’s been a recall on Peloton treadmills because kids are getting hurt. It’s just as basic as that kids are getting hurt. Whether it be an injury or a death each each single one was important. With guns it’s 10 children per day. So what does that say about you know about the safety I guess the safety policies in place for each of these industries. Peloton is regulated right by it could be the Consumer Product Safety Commission, but there are different entities in the federal government that regulate consumer products. Firearms is the only one that falls outside of this. It is not… the sale is regulated of firearms but not the safety firearms. So if a two year old picks up a firearm, drops it it discharges and hurts him or somebody else. You would think that should be a recall on that firearm. And look what can we do? Do we need to put micro stamping on it? Do we need to put a lock on it so that a child is unable to injure themselves or others from that firearm? Again that’s a gap. And we need to repeal that protection from immunity for the gun industry. They need to be held accountable and they need to put safety mechanisms in place. It can’t be voluntarily. It doesn’t happen with any industry voluntarily. It didn’t happen with cars. You know, data found that if you put a child in a car seat, they’re more likely to be safer. If you put a seatbelt in a car, you’re more likely to be safer. We didn’t get rid of the car. We just made it safer for that child to be in the car. Same thing with firearms.

Jen Lumanlan 35:29

Yeah. Okay. And I want to sort of tease out the distinction between what I see is what you’re describing here, which is we’re trying to make firearms safer. And what seems to be the American Academy of Pediatrics’ stance, which is their official policy statement says “The safest home for children is a home without a gun.” And yes, that may be fact. I mean, it is factually true. But that that part is not really under debate here. But is this stance likely to be the one that improves the safety of the largest number of children if parents who own guns just kind of stop listening to the AAP and or their pediatrician or anyone else they’re getting this information from? Where do you kind of walk that line?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 36:07

Yeah, I think there’s a move to meet people where they are. And while like you said, that is the safest place, but people can have firearms, and we just need to have them be safe in the presence of children. So I think we need to meet people where they are. Do they have a firearm? What kind of firearm is it? Why do they have that firearm? It’s for hunting? We ‘ll you know what then you you can keep it safely stored, because you’re not using it for self protection. We need to learn about firearms. So many of us don’t know, like, what’s it like to pull a trigger? What’s it, you know, what are. a kind of 2 year old, you’re all like, hang on, hold the gun. So I had gone to a gun show in New Hampshire, where I, you know, ask people about background checks and about safe storage. I saw a family of four with an adolescent and a baby that must have been like six months old. And, you know, I was just, I was playing, you know, like consumer, and they all believed in safe storage, background checks. You know, the mother said of her baby, like, of course, we keep it safe. Of course, we keep it locked up with the user. Like, of course, we’re not buying in a, you know, an assault weapon, he wants to buy a rifle for hunting. You know, again, that’s not my culture. But that is a culture. And I think we need to understand it. And I think we need to meet in the middle about keeping their children safe.

Jen Lumanlan 37:33

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Great. Thank you for teasing that out a little bit. And so I kind of linked to this idea, I think, is the idea of pretend play with guns, either with fingers being held up or with, you know, BB guns or other gun like objects. And so we covered this a while ago in the show. And we talked to Dr. Diane Levine, who has spent a long time studying this, and basically told us that you can try and ban children from engaging in gun play/war play if you want to, but they’re going to do it anyway. They’re just going to push it underground. And if you support them in doing it, you can actually help them from getting out of these kind of bang, bang, you’re dead storylines that they can otherwise end up just repeating over and over again, and help them to understand well, what aspect of this story is it that they’re really exploring here? And how can we help you to explore that rather than necessarily focusing so much on the gunplay itself? And so I think the parents who are in the communities I work with are generally fairly comfortable with this approach. And sort of acknowledging also that even if their children are allowed to play with pretend guns, that we’re never doing it in a public place. This is always something that’s done in our backyard, partially in acknowledgement that our friends, if I’m White, and I have a friend over who isn’t White, that they may not be as safe as my child is being out on the street and playing with a pretend gun. And that even if everybody involved is White, that in acknowledgment that not every child is safe to do this. So I’m wondering if you are aware of any evidence based reason why we might need to shift our thinking on that at all, or if you are comfortable with children playing with pretend guns?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 39:10

It’s a really great question. I don’t know of any research in that area. I think it is something that does need to be done. You know, we have there have been studies that looked at exposure to media violence, and they have found that media violence exposure in and of itself can result in perpetration, but as far as the pretend gun I don’t recommend it. I think there are different place simulations you can you can do that don’t involve you know, the ultimate goal is to kill somebody. Cause what it is you kill like, you shoot somebody what they fall back in there, you know, simulating death. I don’t know if that’s what we want to teach kids. It’s kind of like cowboys and Indians. We used to do that, but we don’t do that anymore. You know, robbers. We don’t cops and robbers. We don’t do that anymore. So I think we maybe need to think about other things that children can play.

Jen Lumanlan 40:05

Okay. All right. And then from a parent’s perspective, if a parent is concerned about children’s exposure to gun violence, whether it’s their own child, or whether it’s children in general, because ultimately what we want to do is to make the world a safe place for all children to grow up in, not just my individual child, what do you recommend? What kind of actions can we take that are maybe grounded in evidence, I know that there had been some places where child access prevention laws have been put into place, you know, people will lobby for them, and the research on whether these are effective is is extremely mixed. ]Because there are so many confounding variables involved. We don’t know if the law is being enforced, or if people are actually changing their behavior. So I’m wondering if you can help us understand are the research based practices we can engage in to make the world safer for all children?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 40:53

Right, there is evidence, as we said, to support safe storage, and then it becomes the laws, the laws that are effective. And there was recent study that came out by a colleague Eric Siegler out of Boston Children’s that found that when you did look at these Child Access Laws in different States, where there were higher penalties for violation of that, then that was more effective, or was more effective in reducing injuries and deaths in that State versus an area that had weaker laws or weaker penalties from the same law. If that makes sense.

Jen Lumanlan 41:30

Yeah. Okay. So parents should be advocating for safe storage laws in their states, is that the thing that we can focus on that’s most useful in terms of reducing children’s exposure to violence, or is there are there other things that should be our primary focus?

Dr. Nina Agrawal 41:45

What I’ve been interested in is creating safer environments for children. And so creating sort of this environmental health framework. You know, we talk about climate, we talk about noise pollution, I think we need to put firearms in that. I live, you know, in New York City in a nice neighborhood, but just a block over last week, my neighbor was in the news over gunshots at 4pm. That doesn’t usually happen. But it happened. You know, my since the pandemic, I don’t walk around at night, because it actually has not been safe. But now it’s not safe in the daytime, you know, so I think we need to look at our environment, just not in our home, but our you know, our community. And I think we need to solve this as a community. So whether what, however you define your community, as a community of parents, to community of teachers, however you define that I think, you know, come together and figure out what solutions matter or would make a difference in your community, it’s not going to be a one size fits all. And it’s not going to be one thing either. I really love the work that Charles Branas, he’s a gun researcher that in Philadelphia, they found that if you remediate blighted land, like abandoned buildings, create safe green spaces where you involve the community, you can reduce shootings, and you can reduce crime in that area. And ultimately, children can be safer in that neighborhood.

Jen Lumanlan 43:12

Okay, so this ultimately doesn’t necessarily have to be about advocating for anything related to guns specifically, it could be a much broader picture of how do we make this a community that we all feel welcome in. And that if we can create that, then the gun violence issue sort of becomes less of a focus as it were.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 43:31

Yeah. And then I think the other part of that is after school programs. In New York City, they’re trying to mandate that all children are eligible for after school programs, because it’s like an added expense. That’s a time where children can get into trouble. And so I think, you know, all parents could benefit from after school programs for their child, whether you’re in a suburban environment or in an urban environment.

Jen Lumanlan 43:54

Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here and sharing your thoughts on this and your research and ideas and leaving us with some really some things that we can do. This is not about necessarily getting out a billboard and taking on the NRA. This is not what we’re trying to do here. What we’re trying to do is create communities that feel welcome to everybody. So thank you for sharing your time with us.

Dr. Nina Agrawal 44:15

Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure.

Jen Lumanlan 44:19

Thanks for joining us for this episode of Your Parenting Mojo. Don’t forget to subscribe to the show at YourParentingMojo.com to receive new episode notifications, and the FREE Guide to 13 Reasons Your Child Isn’t Listening To You and What to Do About Each One. And also join the Your Parenting Mojo Facebook group. For more respectful research based ideas to help kids thrive and make parenting easier for you, I’ll see you next time on Your Parenting Mojo.

References

Agrawal, N., Rajan, S., Johnson, D., & Renneboog, C-L. (forthcoming). Exposure to violence involving a gun is an adverse childhood experience.

Alcorn, T. (2017). Trends in research publications about gun violence in the United States, 1960-2014. JAMA Internal Medicine 177(1), 124-126.

American Academy of Pediatrics (2021). Your child is on the move: Reduce the risk of gun injury. Author. Retrieved from https://patiented.solutions.aap.org/handout.aspx?gbosid=166246

Azad, H.A., Monteaux, M.C., Rees, C.A., Siegel, M., Mannix, R., Lee, L.K., Sheehan, K.M., & Fleeger, E.W. (2020). Child access prevention firearm laws and firearm fatalities among children aged 0-14 years, 1991-2016. Journal of the American Medical Association Pediatrics 174(5), 463-469.

Bottiani, J.H., Camacho, D.A., Johnson, S.L., & Bradshaw, C.P. (2021). Annual research review: Youth firearm violence disparities in the United States and implications for prevention. The Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 62(5), 563-579.

Branas, C.C., South, E., Kondo, M.C., Hohl, B.C., Bourgois, P., Wiebe, D.J., & MacDonald, J.M. (2018). Citywide cluster randomized trial to restore blighted vacant land and its effects on violence, crime, and fear. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 115(12), 2946-2951.

Goldstick, J.E., Kaufman, E.J., Delgado, M.K., Jay, J., & Carter, P.M. (2021). Commentary: Reducing youth firearm violence and the associated health disparities requires enhanced surveillance and modern behavioral intervention strategies – a commentary on Bottiani et al. (2021). Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 62(5), 580-583.

Bulger, E.M., Kuhls, D.A., Campbell, B.T., Bonne, S. Cunningham. R.M., Betz, M., Dicker, R., Ranney, M.L., Barsotti, C., Hargarten, S., Sakran, J.V., Rivara, F.P., James, T., Lamis, D., Timmerman, G., Rogers, S.O., Choucair, B. & Stewart, R.M. (2019). Proceedings from the medical summit on firearm injury prevention: A public health approach to reduce death and disability in the U.S. Journal of the American College of Surgeons 229(4), 415-430.

Cunningham, R.M., Walton, M.A., & Carter, P.M. (2018). The major causes of death in children and adolescents in the United States. The New England Journal of Medicine 379(25), 2468-2475.

Diamond, J. (2015, December 3). Former GOP congressman flips on support for gun violence research. CNN. Retrieved from https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/jay-dickey-gun-violence-research/

Fowler, K.A., Dahlberg, L.L., Haileyesus, T., Gutierrez C., & Bacon, S. (2017). Childhood firearm injuries in the United States. Pediatrics 140(1).

Gallup (2018). Guns. Retrieved from https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/%20guns.aspx

Goode, L. (2021, May 5). Peloton recalls treadmills after dozens of injuries and a child death. Wired. Retrieved from https://www.wired.com/story/peloton-treadmill-recall/

Howard, P.K. (2005). Parents’ beliefs about children and gun safety. Pediatric Nursing 31(5)

Jackman, G.A., Farrah, M.M., Kellerman, A.L., & Simon, H.K. (2001). Seeing is beleifing: What do boys do when they find a real gun? Pediatrics 107(6)

Miltenberger, R.G., Flessner, C., Gatheridge, B., Johnson, B., Satterlund, M., & Egemo, K. (2004). Evaluation of behavioral skills training to prevent gun play in children. Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis 37, 513-516.

Ngo, Q.M., Sigel, E., Moon, A., Stein, S.F., Massey, L.S., Rivara, F., King, C., Ilgen, M., Cunningham, R., & Walton, M.A. (2019). State of the science: A scoping review of primary prevention of firearm injuries among children and adolescents. Journal of Behavioral Medicine 42, 811-829.

NPR Staff. (2019, December 18). Some big health care policy changes are hiding in the federal spending package. NPR. Retrieved from https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/12/18/789291340/some-big-health-care-policy-changes-are-hiding-in-the-federal-spending-package

Naughton, M., Rajput, S., Hashikawa, A.N., Mough, C.A., Roche, J.S., Goldstick, J.E., Cuningham, R.M., & Carter, P.M. (2020). Pilot of an asynchronous web-based video curriculum to improve firearm safety counseling by pediatric residents. Academic Pediatrics 20(4), 545-568

Rajan, S., Branas, C.C., Myers, D., & Agrawal, N. (2019). Youth exposure to vilence involving a gun: Evidence for adverse childhood experience classification. Journal of Behavioral Medicine 42, 646-637.

Ranney, M., Karb, R., Ehrlich, P., Bromwich, K., Cunningham, R., & Beidas, R.S. (2019). What are the long-term consequences of youth exposure to firearm injury, and how do we prevent them? A scoping review. Journal of Behavioral Medicine 42, 724-740.

Sawyer, D., & Muir, D. (n.d.). What young kids do with guns when parents aren’t around. ABC 2020. Retrieved from https://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/young-kids-guns-parents-22325589

Schmidt, C.J., Rupp, L., Pizarro, J.M., Lee, D.B., Branas, C.C., & Zimmerman, M.A. (2019). Risk and protective factors related to youth firearm violence: A scoping review and directions for future research. Journal of Behavioral Medicine 42, 706-723.

Schuster, M.A., Franke, T.M., Bastian, A.M., Sor, S., & Halfon, N. (2000). Firearm storage patterns in U.S. homes with children. American Journal of Public Health 90(4), 588-594.

Tavernise, S. (2021, May 29). An arms race in America: Gun buying spiked during the pandemic. It’s still up. The New York Times. Retrieved from https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/29/us/gun-purchases-ownership-pandemic.html?searchResultPosition=1

Webster, D.W., Wilson, M.E.H., Duggan, A.K., & Pakula, L.C. (1992). Parents’ beliefs about preventing gun injuries to children. Pediatrics 89(5), 908-914.

Zeoli, A.M., Goldstick, J., Mauri, A., Wallin, M., Goyal, M., & Cunningham, R. (2019). The association of firearm laws with firearm outcomes among children and adolescents: A scoping review. Journal of Behavioral Medicine 42, 741-762.

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131: Implicit Bias with Dr. Mahzarin Banaji

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 09:00:00 +0000

Explicitly, nobody really believes in gender stereotypes anymore, but when we look at the world, and who’s where and how much money people make, and so on, it still seems to be there. And the answer to that is yeah, because it’s there. It’s just not something we say. It’s more of something we do.

-Dr. Mahzarin Banaji

What is implicit bias? Do I have it (and do you?)? Does my (and your?) child have it? And if we do have implicit bias, what, if anything, can we do about it?

Join me in a conversation with Dr. Mahzarin Banaji, former Dean of the Department of Psychology at Harvard University and co-creator of the Implicit Association Test, for an overview of implicit bias and how we can know if we (and our children) have it.

This episode will be followed by a second part in this mini-series where we dig deeply into the research, where results are complex and often contradictory. Stay tuned!

Jump to highlights:

(01:00) An intro of Dr. Mahzarin Banaji
(02:58) What is implicit bias?
(07:48) Differentiating bias that you are aware of and bias that you aren’t aware of
(08:56) Describing the Implicit Association test
(18:11) What the research says about where implicit bias comes from
(24:50) Development of group preference from implicit association
(32:18) Group bias and its implications towards individual psychological health
(40:44) What can be done to potentially prevent implicit biases from developing?
(46:56) Some good progress with society’s bias in general and areas that need working on

Resources:

Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People

Click here to read the full transcript

Jen 00:02

Hi, I’m Jen and I host the Your Parenting Mojo podcast.

Jen 00:06

We all want our children to lead fulfilling lives but it can be so hard to keep up with the latest scientific research on child development and figure out whether and how to incorporate it into our own approach to parenting. Here at Your Parenting Mojo, I do the work for you by critically examining strategies and tools related to parenting and child development that are grounded in scientific research and principles of respectful parenting.

Jen 00:29

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Jen 00:42

You can also continue the conversation about the show with other listeners in the Your Parenting Mojo Facebook group. I do hope you’ll join us.

Jen 01:00

Hello, and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. Today we’re going to look at the topic of implicit bias. Now I’ve been thinking for a while about running a series of episodes on the connection between our brains and our bodies because I’ve been learning about that and the wisdom that our bodies can hold and wondering, well how can we learn how to pay more attention to our bodies? And then I started thinking about intuition. And I wondered, well, how can we know if we can trust our intuition? What if our intuition is biased? So I started looking at the concept of implicit bias and it became immediately clear who I should ask to interview Dr. Mahzarin Banaji. Dr. Banaji studies thinking and feeling as they unfold in a social context with a focus on mental systems that operate in implicit or unconscious mode. Since 2002, she has been Richard Clarke Cabot professor of social ethics in the Department of Psychology at Harvard University, where she was also the Chair of the Department of Psychology for four years while holding two other concurrent appointments. She has been elected fellow of a whole host of extremely impressive societies and was named William James Fellow for a lifetime of significant intellectual contributions to the basic science of psychology by the Association of Psychological Science, an organization of which she also served as president. Along with her colleague, Dr. Anthony Greenwald. She’s conducted decades of research on implicit bias and co-authored the book Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People.

Jen 02:21

I should also say that there are a lot of issues that we only got a chance to skim over at a fairly high level in this conversation, which I’m recording this introduction afterwards, because Dr. Banaji was quite pressed for time. And I’m planning to release an episode that follows up into these issues and dives into them at a much deeper level soon. So please consider this part one of a two-part conversation with you.

Jen 02:42

Alright, let’s go ahead and get started with the interview.

Jen 02:45

Welcome Dr. Banaji. Thanks so much for being here.

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 02:48

Hi there.

Jen 02:49

So I wonder if we can start out by understanding a bit more about what implicit bias is. I hear it all over the place, and can you help us to just define what that is, please?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 02:58

Sure. So implicit bias, quite simply, is a tendency in every human being to favor one individual over another, one social group over another, and to do so without conscious awareness, or without the ability to be able to exert conscious control over the judgement that one is making. So let’s just break the phrase down into the two words that constitute it. The word implicit and the word bias, okay? Bias, what is it? It’s simply for us a deviation from neutrality, it is privileging one option over another, right? If I say I prefer blue to red, I’m biased in favor of blue, and not in favor of red relatively speaking. So that for us is what a bias is. And implicit just means that that favoring of red over blue or blue over red is something that I’m not even aware of. It’s just that when I go into a store, I pick up clothing that is all blue rather than red. That put together tells us that implicit bias is a deviation from neutrality in ways we ourselves would not be happy to see ourselves doing. If it’s in the domain of color, who cares whether I prefer blue to red or red to blue but imagine now that it’s not blue and red. Imagine that it is a native born child in the classroom, and an immigrant child in the classroom. And even though I as a teacher believe very much that both should be treated equally that is to say, if they do something good, I should reward both equally. If they did something that’s bad behavior, I should reprimand them equally, I should encourage both equally to pursue new things in their lives. I should support both of them equally to meet their goals and so on. A deviation from neutrality would mean that I’m doing these things both the good and bad things in order to teach a child something, that I’m doing them selectively, that I’m doing more for one category over another. So that’s all biases. And teachers are so well intentioned, just like parents, what they want is the best for all of the kids in their class. And so when we discovered that a teacher may not be aware but is systematically calling on certain people in the classroom, or saying, “Aha!” or “Good idea!” to some rather than others, then we would say it’s implicit. And as you can imagine, teachers, by and large, are very good people and so when they’re biased it is almost always without their awareness.

Jen 05:41

Okay, so is this lack of awareness perspective, that’s really the key, then?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 05:45

That’s exactly right. And the reason this is interesting is because if you look in almost any society, but let’s just take American society or the Western world or whatever, some large group of people, you will notice that explicit forms of bias have been coming down, at least in what people say on a survey. If you say to a teacher, “Do you think that native born children are just inherently smarter than immigrant children?” The teacher will likely say, “No, I don’t believe that that is the case at all. I think all children are talented in all these different ways.” So if you measure it explicitly, if you say, “Tell me is this immigrant kid better or worse than this native one kid?” You will not see any evidence of bias. But when you sit in the back of the classroom, and you just measure what the teacher is doing, who the teacher looks at who the teacher says nice things to who the teacher calls on, and you see that there is a systematic difference, then we say we must become interested in this, because the child is experiencing these good and bad things the teacher is doing, but the teacher has no awareness. And think about the child. What does the child think is going on? The child might think I’m bad, or I’m good, right? And that’s why we should be interested in both kinds of measures, what people say to us directly, and also what they may not be able to say because they don’t think they’re that way.

Jen 07:10

Okay, I’m wondering if we can just pull that apart a little bit. And we’re sort of using teachers as an example. But this could just as well apply to managers or anyone in any situation. I can understand if a researcher were to come and say, “Do you think that native born children have different capabilities than immigrant children?” Then, I understand the correct thing for me to say in that moment is “No, of course not.” But I may still be thinking that and I may have awareness that I’m thinking that. So I’m trying to understand the difference between an explicit bias that I know it’s not a socially correct thing to say, and implicit bias that I might not be aware of, how can I parse that difference?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 07:48

Yeah, it’s a great question. For now, I would say, an explicit bias is something that you know, even if you don’t say it to other people, but you know. So let’s say that I believe that boys are better at math than girls are. But I’m not going to say that because I don’t want my girl students to hear that or feel bad about that. And so I’m not going to say it, but I think it and I’m able to consciously put those words together in my mind, boys are better at math than girls, I know that. As long as that is the case, we would say it’s consciously accessible to you. Your mind is capable of saying A is better than B or whatever and to do that to yourself, at least. What makes it implicit is when you say boys and girls are equally good at math, I believe it. You never say to yourself; boys are better at math than girls. But if we look at some other aspects of your behavior, who you spend more time teaching a difficult math problem to, etc., then we would say it is.

Jen 08:56

Okay, perfect. Thank you for helping us to understand that distinction. And so then I wonder if we can go from there into the Implicit Association test, which is something you’ve spent a bit of time working on over the years. Can you tell us what that is? And how does that measure implicit bias?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 09:11

Yeah. So as you can imagine, your listeners and you will easily see what the problem is. A person, if asked genuinely and truly says, “I have no bias.” And when you measure their judgments and actions in some way, you’re seeing a systematic effect. How do you measure that? When the person themselves is saying no? In psychology, we’ve relied for over 100 years on what we call explicit measures. If you want to know something about what a person is thinking, ask them. How stressed are you feeling? Okay. Well, sometimes maybe I can tell you that I’m feeling stressed. But there are lots of studies where people like me say that they’re not stressed at all and you’ll see me breaking out into hives or something, which is a response to the stress. Now you have to have a measure of those hives, you have to be able to measure skin complexion, you know, when one is stressed and not stressed and say whether the person knows it or not, there is some physical response that we can measure. What can we do when the response we are looking for is locked up between our ears in a box that is not easy to penetrate? So the first thing to do is to just imagine the difficulty of trying to even track anything implicit and the measure that you mentioned, the one that we are most familiar with, and the one that I believe today is the dominant measure of implicit cognition in the science as a whole is the Implicit Association test, and I’m one of three co developers of that test. The test has a very simple assumption that underlies it. The assumption is that when two things in our experience have come to go together repeatedly, they’re joined in time and in space, let’s say, that they become one for us. If when I see bread, there is usually a bowl of butter, bread and butter come to be associated when I think bread, butter comes to mind more quickly than some random word like water, or couch or something like that. So that’s very easy to understand and neuroscientists, actually, in order to teach people how neurons in our brain fire after having learned something, they teach it to us by the phrase, if it fires together, it wires together. And we use that when we teach how learning occurs. By firing together, it means in the same moment, if neurons for bread and butter becoming activated, your brain learns that there’s something about these that go together, and that’s how we learn everything. We learn, you know, that mother and father are a unit, like bread and butter, but we also know certain experiences we have in the presence of something. When I see flowers, I feel happy, and flowers becomes associated flowers almost become synonymous with good, even though the words that we might use to capture goodness have nothing to do with flowers. So you know, not just words like beautiful or peace or joy, but if we use words like you know, angel, or satisfied, or whatever that have no semantic relationship to flowers, those words should become more easily accessible in the presence of flowers because our experience has made them repeatedly be associated. Unlike insects, when we think of an insect, we think yucky, I mean, unless you’re a five-year-old boy, yes, I will put them aside for a moment. And say that, yes, that may happen. But even young boys, when they take our test, if it’s flower or insect, they have learned that in our culture, flowers are good, and insects are bad. So all we’ve done is made a test that measures the strength of association between insects, and bad and good flowers and bad and good. Okay, that’s what the test is. And now we can begin to go beyond the test by keeping the test logic identical. If I have you look at flowers on a computer screen and press a key – left key when you see flowers on the right key when you see insects – very easy for you to do that. Now I’m going to say okay, not just flowers and insects, but words are going to pop up on the screen words like love and peace and joy, good words, or bad words like devil and bomb and war and things like that. And your job is to use the same key to say flower or good words, and the same key, now a different but the same key when you identify an insect, as having appeared on the screen, or a bad word is having appeared on the screen. Now, if flower and good have truly become one in our minds, this should be a very easy task. Left key for flowers left key for good. Right key for insect right key for bad, right? That’s easy. But now let’s switch. This is the moment in the test when people groan because I’m saying to them left key for flower and left key for bad things, right key for insect and right key for good things. And they can’t do it. By can’t do it I mean, they can, but it takes them a whole lot longer to do this and they make many more mistakes when they do this. I show this bias, you show this bias. You know, even entomologists who study insects and love them, show it but to a lesser extent than we do. So they acquired the cultural thumbprint that says insects are not as good as flowers, but because they love insects and they work with them. They show a lower anti insect bias.

Jen 14:51

Fascinating.

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 14:52

Okay, so now, the logic of the test should be very clear to people, and they will mostly agree in fact, everybody will agree that this is a decent measure of whether we like flowers or insects. And when the data come back and tell you, you have a strong preference for flowers over insects, people nod their head and say, “Yes, I do.” There’s no quarrel with the test. The quarrel with the test emerges when we replace insect and flower with Black and White faces, Asian and White faces, fat and thin people, people who are Native Americans and European Americans. And sometimes when we even change the good and bad words, to be things like bad and good things like weapons and musical instruments or something like that. Is it easier for me to associate, you know, certain groups with bad things and certain groups with good things? And the startling result is that for people who have, and I would say, genuinely have no explicit bias, now, I can’t say what your explicit bias is, because you may think that you think that you know, male is better than female, but you may not be willing to tell me, but I’ll take myself, I know that explicitly, I do not believe that Black is bad, and White is good. I know that for sure because it’s me, and I can tell myself the truth about what I consciously think. And yet for people like me, who seem to have no explicit bias, this test throws us a curveball, because it demonstrates that people like me are not able to associate good with Black as easily as we can associated with White. And when that happens, it’s troubling to us. It’s troubling because it doesn’t feel like the test is telling us anything true about ourselves. I don’t blame people who say what a stupid test is just telling me, you know, it’s just all complete lies. I felt the same way when I first took the test. I thought, “What’s wrong with this test?” Obviously, I’m the great Mahzarin I’m not biased, so if the test is telling me I am, something’s wrong with the test. And you know, a few minutes later, I came to my senses and I realized it’s not the test that’s the problem. It’s my head that’s the problem. I have accumulated all this learning two things have gone together, it fired together, it wired together.

Jen 17:22

Okay. All right. Well, thank you for that. And I think there’s a lot of different pieces to come up from that, that we’re going to get to in due time as we go through the conversation, but I’m wondering if maybe we can start with “Where does this come from?” Because in preparation for this interview, you sent me an epic paper that you had written with one of your grad students, and the reference list alone was enough to make me weep when I saw it, and realized I was probably I need to read most of those.

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 17:50

Which paper was that?

Jen 17:51

The one with Dr. Charlesworth on, I hope I’m remembering her name, right?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 17:56

Yeah. Charlesworth is writing, but she’s written too many papers.

Jen 18:00

You’ve written a lot with her. But the idea of the assessment of where implicit beliefs and attitudes about gender and race and language come from. So…

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 18:08

Oh the language paper.

Jen 18:09

Yeah.

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 18:09

I got it.

Jen 18:11

Yeah, sort of the overview of what does the research say about where all of this comes from in all of these different domains of gender, race, language, and age, and so on. So wonder if you can walk us through what we know about where these implicit biases come from?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 18:26

Yeah, so whenever we talk about where does something come from, in this domain, you must always think about it in two buckets. The data that we know, female is nice, male is strong, whatever those beliefs might be. They’re obviously coming from somewhere, right? And that’s usually outside of the human in some sense first. When you’re born into the world, you don’t know that you’d know in a few days that mom is nicer than dad because you’ve been attached to mom. And infants, by the way, do notice very, very quickly, that is they know, they prefer other females if their primary caregiver is female, and male, they prefer other males if their primary caregiver’s male. So they’re clearly learning that. But the very fact that they’re learning that female is good or male is good, depending on their experience tells us that those experiences are coming to them from the outside. But there is a machine inside. That’s the second bucket. It’s not like it takes a long while for these things to get learned. There is a learning machine in our brain is… it’s like a sponge for anything new that comes to be paired with each other. We’re seeking those associations and when we see them, we form immediate hypotheses. “Oh, a person who looks like this is a nice person.” They feed me, they take care of me, they feel cuddly and warm, they stroke my cheek and some other group that has never done anything bad to you, but just hasn’t done anything good is not associated with that, right? So, when we think about where this comes from the specific content, female is soft and nice feeds me, etc. Male is strong, you know, can carry large objects, whatever those are, those are obviously being learned, it is not something that the brain knows on day one. But the thing to focus on is that it’s learning it extremely fast. So fast that as I said, within the first, you know, two months of life, babies are showing preferences for dark skinned people if their caregivers are dark skinned, and for light skinned people, if their caregivers are light skinned.

Jen 20:45

Okay, and so there’s sort of a shift that’s happening in there. And I want to make sure that we see it happening. In the very early days, there’s a noticing which researchers are measuring things like looking studies, like how long does a child look at one person versus another person, one picture versus another picture.

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 21:02

Yeah, I don’t think looking at any, as really anything, like just looking. Looking almost immediately is going to also be reflecting either a preference, or that it’s something startling and unique and I better look at it, because this doesn’t sound like the usual thing. So looking time is telling us more than just here are two things and I’m going to look at one over the other.

Jen 21:24

Okay. And that’s sort of linked to the categorization that’s happening, right that one particular person has these features and here’s another person that has these features. And this person brings me milk and stuff that I like, and this person looks sort of like this person. And so we start to lump these together. Is that right? That that’s how the categories form?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 21:46

Yeah, when I say that, babies very early starts to show a preference for others who share the gender of their caretaker, that’s exactly what’s happening. If one woman is good to you, your brain apparently thinks that’s more than enough data. And you will generalize from that to other women. And if you have a mother and grandmother, it’s over now all women are going to be good, right? Because two of them have already shown that they did not harm you. So yes, I think the question of categorization and then forming liking for one, and the other is too complicated to get into, because there are many different views about all of this but the important thing is, yes, very early babies can put things into groupings. And very quickly, and this is the interesting part, the fact that they can see that things are different is not so surprising, but what is surprising is how quickly beliefs and affects come to be associated with that. How quickly things become good and bad. That’s the part that I would be interested in.

Jen 22:48

Yeah. And so why do we do that? Like, why does the good and bad thing happen? Where does the preferences part come from?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 22:54

Because it’s so adaptive. For babies that didn’t do this, they would just die. I mean, imagine that a baby fails to distinguish between people who take care of them and people who harm them. A baby like that would not survive a day because they would approach people who are likely to harm them. So for a baby, to not go in the direction of people who look unfamiliar, is a very protective mechanism. For the baby to learn very quickly that when somebody has not harmed me, others, like that person are not likely to harm me is a decent hypothesis. It will pan out in their little universe. So that’s where it comes from. It’s not for nothing, that they’re, they’re not stupid, right they’re, this is how humans evolved. Humans who did not have the capability to distinguish between categories and assign a positive or negative value to those would have died out in our evolutionary history. They didn’t survive long enough to have their own children, so that they would be amongst us people who don’t make those distinctions. This was so important that it is now a basic human quality because only those…

Jen 24:03

And it happens across categories, like gender, and race and language and age. Those were some of the ones that you covered in your paper,

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 24:11

And tables and chairs and cups and saucers, and apples on everything.

Jen 24:16

Okay. And then I was curious to see that boys undergo a shift, girls undergo less of a shift as they get a little bit older and go from and start to see female with good and male with bad on a version of the Implicit Association test that’s designed for children. And so instead of preferring their own group, because I think the tendency is to prefer own group and to for boys to say, “Oh, boys are better than girls.” And girls say, “Well, girls are better than boys.” And then over time, it becomes sort of a female preference. What’s behind that?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 24:50

Yeah, you’re asking a really important question. So let me just back up a little bit and say, you’re exactly right. In group preference, we see in some ways is ubiquitous. You can go anywhere in the world and you won’t be surprised when you see that people like their own group better than they like other groups. If it’s something like the Red Sox and the Yankees, it’s very explicit, I can actually scream all kinds of epithets about the Yankees considered socially completely. Okay,

Jen 25:22

I enjoyed the research paper on that particular…

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 25:25

I can wear a T-shirt that says, “The Yankees suck.” And even though they don’t, and they’re far better than the Red Sox, it is okay for me to do that. So in group preference, starting with something as clear and as socially acceptable as commitment to a sports team, and hating the rival team, starting with that, and going down to other kinds of groups. American, is American better than European for Americans, Americans are better and for Europeans, Europeans are better. So let’s just start with the assumption that in the psychological research literature, this has been shown thousands and thousands of times in every possible way, that in group preference is strong and ubiquitous. When you find that not being the case, you have to get interested as a scientist, how can it be that something as pervasive is failing to appear? And we see it more on the IAT on the implicit tests. So on the explicit test, if you ask Black people, which group do you like more White or Black, they will say with lots of passion, we think Black is better than White. When you ask White people, which group is better White or Black, they will say their own group is better, but a little more modestly, because they know their history. They know that it’s not so cool for them to say White is better than Black. So they will, they will still say it but in a much more modulated way than African Americans will. So that’s what they say. Now let’s go to the IAT and we’ll use both examples race and gender here. On the IAT, White people show strong preference for White over Black, and young children, six-year-olds, and even younger, we now know, show that same preference. So they’ve already learned by the time they’re four, we know it can be seen on lots of complicated tests that they prefer, just like the adults of their group. So why do adults and White kids look the same to each other, they reflect each other and they show clear in group preference much stronger in group preference than they might say, on a scale if you ask them the question, which group do you prefer, and so on. Now, let’s go to Black Americans. If the world were fair and equal and nonhierarchical, Black Americans should if 70%, or 75% of White Americans show White preference, then 75% of Black Americans should show Black preference. And if that’s steam, then we would say this is symmetric, opposite but symmetric, right. But that’s not the case. 40% of Black Americans show in group preference 40% show out group preference that is to say they prefer White to Black and 20% are neutral. When you collapse the data for Black Americans, you see a graph where you see roughly half the people on the side have White preference, and the other half on the side of Black preference. And young Black children, six years of age will show the same result. They have learned. This is to me one of the morally difficult results that by that age, a Black child knows enough that even though they might say I like Black kids, they do not show that preference on the IAT. So what is the IAT and the value of implicit measures is that they are capturing the thumbprint of the culture on our brain, not what we think we ought to say. And now you start to see the same thing with gender, but in a way that will perplex people. In the world there was this wrong belief that because women are oppressed, because women have been subjugated by men, because women have had many fewer rights than men, that women will be seen as bad. Well, women are not respected or seen as strong or competent but they are loved because a very defining meaning of female is mother in every culture. The basic meaning of female is somebody who is nice, who will cook for you, will hug you, is warm, smells good. All of those things are associated with mother. So if you give people an IAT – male, female, good, bad – girls will show in group preference just like it’s supposed to be. Girls would like girls, but young boys who have learned that mother is wonderful and nice they will show a lower preference for female but they won’t show just like Black people don’t show a strong preference for Black over White, boys won’t show as strong a preference for male or female, because they’re members of that group. So they like the group male, but they too have learned that in our culture of the two groups, male and female, the good one is mother. Not necessarily the competent one, the strong one, the one who brings in the money, the one who, you know is going to be able to kill off the enemy for us all of that, not that. So what you now see is that it is silly for us to assume that any particular group is all good or all bad, it depends in which category you’re looking. There’s a fundamental warmth that we might feel towards some people over others. And that’s one dimension on which we like or dislike certain groups. But as Susan Fiske, a psychologist has shown there is a second variable that does not run parallel, it runs almost in opposition to the warmth one that are loved but seem to be not so strong. Or you could be seen to be strong, like father, like CEO, like feminist women, these groups are seen as strong, but not necessarily nice. So that’s what you see and the amazing thing is that what we see in adults we’re seeing in young children, and that’s the important message here that a lot of parents struggle with this. I have had numerous parents write me, email, tell me, please don’t tell anybody this but you know, my child said something, something terrible, racially. And I have no idea how they could have gotten that because it’s never said in our home. It’s never said in the school that they go to. How did this happen? And I say to them, that it’s because they have a very impressive view of their own influence on their child. Their child is influenced by what it sees in the world. And if they go to a school where there are Black and White kids and the Black kids, you know, have a lunchbox that is more beaten up than the White kids’ lunchbox, that might be enough to say that’s not as nice as this other nice, shiny thing. And that’s all it would take to figure all this out.

Jen 32:18

Okay. And so two things to pick up on that. Firstly, the implications for Black children and even Black adults have this sort of two humped curve as it were, with half of the people preferring the outgroup. And with all of the messages that our culture sends about the outgroup’s superiority in this case, what implications does that have for the psychological health of the people who are in this group?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 32:46

So I’ll tell you two things and they will I hope both be interesting. The first thing is that as soon as you combine what I just told you about in-group and out-group preference, that in-group preference is robust and strong, in dominant group members, but it’s not present in members that are minority groups or disadvantaged groups. We begin with that result and then we can actually make the effects even worse by saying they’re not even the same size statistically, in every culture. If White Americans are about 60% of the population, but Black Americans are only 10%. Just count up, just do simple math. How many good things is a White person likely to get being thrown towards them in a given day? Oh, 60% of their population, or other people like them who show preference for them in their group, African Americans, even if they showed strong preference for their own kind, would only have that be available in the 10% in that group. So statistically, it makes the result worse, even worse. So I think that this is a battle that has to be fought inside of each person. What am I to do? I love myself; I want to love myself, I want to love my home and my people and my thing, but I know that they aren’t good. The results that I will give you next is a very shocking result. When you measure self-esteem – how much do you love yourself? – and even when you use measures that are implicit, associate good things to yourself, we find that African Americans have the highest self-esteem in our culture, followed by White and the lowest is in Asians. So how does this happen? How does a group that is discriminated have the highest level of love for self in some ways? And I think it’s because Black kids all the way to Black adulthood are constantly being tested. Self-love is not something that can be set aside. We love ourselves. We have to protect ourselves. That is so powerful that Black Americans have to work harder. This is my conjecture, that the reason they show high self-esteem is because they don’t have the luxury of deriving it from their social group. White Americans can feel good because other White people’s achievements are theirs. Black Americans have much less of that to lean on. And so it has to be done based on yourself, I have to be the good one, I’m going to have to do the good thing. And I think that it is this kind of constant mental work that goes on to make sure that the self is protected, the self is seen as good, that leads to an almost better developed self-love that in African Americans is coming from the hard work they have to do to make sure that the goodness they associated with themselves is coming from their own performance from their own being good, or what that might mean because it’s not going to come from just, you know, having it showered on you by others in your group, or by even having your own group members show it to you. But this is a very complicated story. But the result is not the result that Black Americans, so this is a contradictory result, because we used to think that, you know, if your group is discriminated, you will have even had a word for it, we call it you know, self-hating x, we would say, well, that’s it’s not so simple, psychologically, we should just be aware that love of self is so primary, that we will find a way to love ourselves. And at the even at the expense, even when we know that the group we belong to is not so good, culturally speaking.

Jen 36:37

Okay, then that should sort of an additional layer of the next thing that I wanted to follow up on, which was when you said that parents come to you and say, you know, my child said something inappropriate and where did this come from? And you said, Well, this is sort of the culture exerting its thumbprint on your child’s mind. Of course, there are also many studies showing that children at very young ages, if a researcher asks them and presents them with a picture of a Black baby and a White baby, a doll, or an actual child picture than both of those Black and White children, who are the study, participants will say, “h, yeah, the White baby is nicer. The White baby is cleaner. The White baby is better in some way. And so how can we know that these results are from implicit biases, rather than explicit biases that the child hasn’t yet learned that society says that they need to cover up because it’s not socially acceptable to say this?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 37:29

Yeah. So in our very first study that we did, using an implicit measure, it was done with Andy Baron, who’s a professor now at University of British Columbia, we were the first to just try and IAT with young children. And so we first asked six-year-olds, ten-year-olds, and adults to just tell us, you know, here two people, which one do you like. Six-year-olds are the most honest, White six-year-olds, 90% of them tell us I like the White one better than the Black one. By ten, they have started to learn that that may not be so cool to say. So they still show fairly decent in group preference when they are asked, but explicitly, they’re not as likely to say the same. And when you ask adults, you see, nobody said Oh, because they say half the time White is good. And half the time Black is good. And that’s a good measure of how civilized these adults are, at one level, right? At least explicitly, I’m going to take them at face value. They’re saying my values are such that I prefer both equally. When you look at the IAT data, of course, there are no such differences. six-year-olds, ten year olds and adults all show strong in group preference. All right. So kids are in fact, honest, they will tell us what they think and in fact, young Black children are being honest, when they say the White doll is better, because they know that in their culture, that’s the case. There is one videotape that’s been made of the Clark and Clark doll study, which is the one you bring up originally done in the 1930s by Kenneth and Mamie Clark, a study that was cited in the important legal decision Brown v Board of Education, and that’s the original doll studies. But somebody did a version of it not in a systematic way as the Spencer’s have done, but just sort of videotaping Black kids, as they’re shown Black doll and they picked the White doll when they’re asked which one is good. The kicker is when the experimenter then says, which one is more like you. And you can see a child’s face almost turn adult-like in its demonstration of conflict when it very slowly and hesitantly points to the Black doll to say that’s more like me. What I’m saying is that, yes, they know that and at that age you know, who knows what it’s doing to self-esteem? What we do know is that exactly that process must be working its way, all over the place as they grow older, so that by the time they’re reasonably old, they’ve learned that I am good. My group is not good. And they figured out a way to derive self-esteem. But this is not studied very well. So I don’t want to go too far into it but I can tell you that’s been well studied is that Black people show a fairly high self-esteem that we know. And it’s a puzzle as to how is it possible given our simplistic belief that people who belong to disadvantaged groups will dislike themselves and so on? It’s not so simple. We can’t say that.

Jen 40:44

Yeah. And so then, then we could, of course, come to the issue of well, what, if anything, can we do to potentially prevent implicit biases from developing, and I’m just thinking to the study that you just published this year, again, with Dr. Charlesworth on the massive study of gender stereotypes and natural language. I mean, this is enormous in scope, it’s millions of words of assessment that would never have been possible to do before computers that could analyze such high volumes of data. And so when we think about the findings from that study, which are the words associated with gender are everywhere, in natural language interactions in movies, and everything that we interact with our children, what can we do when all of this stuff is so baked into our culture to potentially prevent implicit biases from developing?

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 41:40

Yeah, so let’s start with the answer to the parents who say, I never say to my child, anything that’s gender stereotypic. I’ve known parents who will doctor their children’s books to put breasts on truck drivers so that their children don’t learn a standard. And still, the kid somehow seems to know the right answer, truck drivers don’t have breasts. Let’s start with that. On the one hand, the parent says that, and then let’s look at just parent-child conversations. So in the work with Tessa Charlesworth one data set that we used to look at this using this technique called word embeddings, which words go with which other words which words are semantically more connected, if I say to you, kitchen mitt and mother are going to be more associated than kitchen mitt and father, you would have no trouble understanding that that might happen. If I say to you, baseball mitt and father are more associated than baseball mitt and mother, you would not be surprised. That’s what the data would show that in our language, when kitchen mitt appears, it’s usually what she mother etc., when baseball mitt appears, it’s more with pronouns and names that are male. What parents are telling us is that we don’t explicitly say girls are, you know, not competent, and boys are competent, but parents need not say that. Right? If in our culture, a person who’s working on a car in their garage, is somehow culturally seen as more valuable than stirring soup on a pot in a kitchen, and mother and kitchen are associated and father and garage and cars are, then automatically children are learning that fathers are better than mothers, because what fathers do the work they do is better than the work mothers do. Mothers are nicer than fathers, but mother’s work is not so good. So when you look for stereotypes, of associations to in our culture, things lower on the hierarchy, you know, helping and following rather than building and leading, you see that in the conversations parents and children are having, so this is the brilliance of the data set test out worked with, she has one data set of just parents and children talking. In the course of normal life. We know the age of the child, the gender of the child. We know a few things, but not much else, because we only have audio recordings. So we subject these audio recordings to this analysis and we find that the evidence for use of gender stereotypes in both parents’ language and the child’s language is just as robust as it is in TV shows and in music or in encyclopedias or in books of fiction or nonfiction books or whatever. So that’s the important data. Stereotypes in the language when we’re speaking, are robust. They’re seen equally across many different language corpora, including parent-child conversations. And I think for your parents, this should be an interesting idea that they’re right when they say I never say that girls can’t work on a car. No, they never said that. But in their life, they’re demonstrating that by having the male in the family do that and the female not do it. So they don’t ever have to say it. It’s seen in the behavior of these individuals. And that’s how children pick it up because it would be silly not to be a good learning machine that’s trying to learn what goes with what.

Jen 45:16

And then I mean, it seems to have so many links to patriarchy as well and the idea that they use you said helping and following are not good. And creating and leading are good. And these are stereotypically male and female traits.

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 45:30

So older feminists often argued that we’ve got to get women into these high positions, so that they will be associated with all those values of, you know, respected work, and so on. And I think a newer breed of feminists might say, no, we have to make sure that housework becomes seen as important. That, you know, in cultures where it is paid work, or whatever, that’s a way of a culture signaling that it really believes that the work mothers do is just as important, in fact, more important because there are the schools, I’m told in Denmark, where to just send your child to school, you would be paid, you know, 700 something a month. And that’s saying, you know, we care enough about protecting mothers time and sending kids properly to school, that we’re going to pay people to do that. Until that happens, I don’t think, and that’s why people are perplexed, why isn’t that explicitly, nobody really believes in gender stereotypes anymore. But when we look at the world, and who’s where and how much money people make, and so on, it still seems to be there. And the answer today is yeah, because it’s there. It’s not, it’s just not something we say, it more of something we do.

Jen 46:40

So then it seems to me that the trick here there’s a trick is to firstly, have the conversations with your child about the value of these different professions and roles and careers. And then secondly, is taking on non-traditional roles and responsibilities to the extent that you want to do that.

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 46:56

Yeah, so Tessa’s tests, the ones we analyzed are twofold: we take a gender test, where we measure how strongly do we associate, male and female with the categories of career or work-related things, and then home-family related things. It’s a robust relationship. You know, many, many people, the vast majority showing association between male and career female and home, including women at the same level as men do, so men and women do not differ in this bias. Women just as much as men, if not a little bit more associate female with home and male with career. But in the 10-year period that we’ve looked at roughly 2007 to 2016, we see that this bias is coming down as a function of time, but also a function of age of the child. And that’s because that is the world, right? I’m an old person. So I learned what those are. But my world today is different than my world in the late 50s. And so I am changing. But a kid who was born only 10 years ago, begins with a world that is already very different than 1950s and they’re changing. So what’s great about Tessa’s data is that she doesn’t just look at absolute levels of bias. She looks at change over time. And even in attitudes towards gay people. Everybody’s changing as it turns out. We’re all becoming less and less anti-gay. Conservatives and liberals, men and women, older people and young people, the coasts, the middle, rich, poor, educated, less educated, everybody is becoming less anti-gay. But two groups are becoming anti-gay faster than everybody else. And that’s young people and people who identify as liberal, those two are almost already close to neutrality. When we talk about bias, we said, a bias is a deviation from neutrality. If you like Black and White equally, or if you’re like gay and straight equally, your IAT score would be zero because whatever bias you’re showing here, you’re showing there, and when you subtract one from the other, what’s left is zero, which means there’s equality in whatever you feel it’s equal. And what we’re seeing is that zero point is being reached for today already by young people and by liberals. They’re not showing in anti-gay bias. So those data make us very hopeful. We just have to figure out a way of bottling whatever is going on with sexuality, and then see if it can be applied to changes in other ways that are not changing as fast. So race is changing anywhere as fast. And age bias. Your older parents or grandparents might be interested, although it’s a sad result, that one of the most robust biases that we’ve detected is an anti-elderly bias. In elderly people show this bias to the same extent as young people do. That’s how strong it is in just about every culture, even though cultures do vary in how much age bias they show, every culture is in that direction of elderly bad, young and good. Yeah. And that’s not changing over time. And we have to ask why. You know, and I have a feeling that. I mean, I can give many it’s a very complicated set of answers, which are all hypotheses at this time, but I think we’re not working on that bias. Our culture cares about race, we talk about it, we argue about it, we get into fits about it. We talk about sexuality, we pass laws, you know, we do things. But on age bias, or disability bias, or body weight bias, those three are not changing at all. In fact, body weight bias, a liking for thin over fat is actually getting worse, over the same 10-year period. Not better.

Jen 50:50

So some good progress, and still a lot of work to do as well.

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 50:54

Exactly.

Jen 50:55

Alright. Well, thank you so much for spending your time with us today. I’m so grateful. I know how busy you are. And I’m really grateful for the opportunity to read papers before they are publicly available and get a preview into what’s coming and that you were so generous here with your time today.

Dr. Mahzarin Banaji 51:10

Thank you for doing what you do. I think this sort of translation is so necessary, and so few people do it. And so few people do it as well as you so thank you.

Jen 51:20

Well, thank you very much.

Jen 51:21

And so our listeners can find links to all of the references and there are many of them to the studies we’ve discussed, as well as the background reading that I did. And also the book that Dr. Banaji coauthored with Dr. Anthony Greenwald, which is called Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People all of that can be found at YourParentingMojo.com/ImplicitBias.

Jen 51:40

Thanks for joining us for this episode of Your Parenting Mojo. Don’t forget to subscribe to the show at YourParentingMojo.com to receive new episode notifications and the FREE guide to seven parenting myths that we can leave behind and join the your parenting Mojo Facebook group for more respectful research based ideas to help kids thrive and make parenting easier for you. I’ll see you next time on Your Parenting Mojo

References

Banaji, M.R., & Greenwald, A.G. (2002). Blindspot: Hidden biases of good people. New York: Delacorte.

Blanton, H., & Jaccard, J. (2008). Unconscious racism: A concept in pursuit of a measure? Annual Review of Sociology 34, 277-297.

Blanton, H., Jaccard, J., Strauts, E., Mitchell, G., & Tetlock, P.E. (2015). Toward a meaningful metric of implicit prejudice. Journal of Applied Psychology 100(5), 1468-1481.

Brown, E.L., Vesely, C.K., & Dallman, L. (2016). Unpacking biases: Developing cultural humility in early childhood and elementary teacher candidates. Teacher Educators’ Journal 9, 75-96.

Cao, J., Kleiman-Weiner, M., & Banaji, M.R. (2017). Statistically inaccurate and morally unfair judgements via base rate intrusion. Nature Human Behavior 1(1), 738-742.

Carlsson, R. & Agerstrom, J. (2016). A closer look at the discrimination outcomes on the IAT Literature. Scandanavian Journal of Psychology 57, 278-287.

Charlesworth, T.E.S., Kurdi, B., & Banaji, M.R. (2019). Children’s implicit attitude acquisition: Evaluative statements succeed, repeated pairings fail. Developmental Science 23(3), e12911.

Charlesworth, T.E.S., Hudson, S.T.J., Cogsdill, E.J., Spelke, E.S., & Banaji, M.R. (2019). Children use targets’ facial appearance to guide and predict social behavior. Developmental Psychology 55(7), 1400.

Charlesworth, T.E.S., & Banaji, M. (2019). Patterns of implicit and explicit attitudes: I. Long-term change and stability from 2007-2016. Psychological Science 30(2), 174-192.

Chugh, D. (2004). Societal and managerial implications of implicit social cognition: Why milliseconds matter. Social Justice Research 17(2), 203-222.

Cvencek, D., Meltzoff, A. N., Maddox, C. D., Nosek, B. A., Rudman, L. A., Devos, T. Dunham, Y., Baron, A. S., Steffens, M. C., Lane, K., Horcajo, J., Ashburn-Nardo, L., Quinby, A., Srivastava, S. B., Schmidt, K., Aidman, E., Tang, E., Farnham, S., Mellott, D. S., Banaji, M. R., & Greenwald, A. G. (in press). Meta-analytic use of Balanced Identity Theory to validate the Implicit Association Test. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin.

Forscher, P.S., Lai, C.K., Axt, J.R., Ebersole, C.R., Herman, M., Devine, P.G., & Nosek, B.A. (2019). A meta-analysis of procedures to change implicit measures.

Gawronski, B., & Bodenhausen, G.V. (2017). Beyond persons and situations: An interactionist approach to understanding implicit bias. Psychological Inquiry 28(4), 268-272.

Goode, E. (1998). A computer diagnosis of prejudice. The New York Times. Retrieved from https://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/13/health/a-computer-diagnosis-of-prejudice.html

Greenwald, A.G., & Lai, C.K. (2020). Implicit social cognition. Annual Review of Psychology 71, 419-445.

Greenwald, A.G., Banaji, M.R., & Nosek, B.A. (2015). Statistically small effects of the Implicit Association Test can have societally large effects. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 108, 553-561.

Kang, S.K., DeCelles, K.A., Tilcsik, A., & Jun, S. (2016). Whitened resumes: Race and self-precentation in the labor market. Administrative Science Quarterly 1-34.

Kurdi, B., Gershman, S.J., & Banaji, M.R. (2019). Model-free and model-based learning processes in the updating of explicit and implicit evaluations. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 116(13), 6035-6044.

Kurdi, B., Mann, T.C., Charlesworth, T.E.S., & Banaji, M.R. (2019). The relationship between implicit intergroup attitudes and beliefs. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 116(13), 5862-5871.

Kurdi, B., & Banaji, M.R. (2019). Attitude change via repeated evaluative pairings versus evaluative statements: Shared and unique features. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 116(5), 681.

Kurdi, B., Seitchik, A.E., Axt, J.R., Carroll, T.J., Karapetyan, A., Kaushik, N., Tomezsko, D., Greenwald, A.G., & Banaji, M.R. (2019). Relationship between the Implicit Association Test and intergroup behavior: A meta-analysis. American Psychologist 74(5), 569.

Leech, T.G.J., Irby-Shasanmi, A., & Mitchell, A.L. (2019). “Are you accepting new patients?” A pilot field experiment on telephone-based gatekeeping and Black patients’ access to pediatric care. Health Services Research 54, 234-242.

Mann, T.C., Kurdi, B., & Banaji, M.R. (2019). How effectively can implicit evaluations be updated? Using evaluative statements after aversive repeated evaluative pairings. Journal of Experimental Psychology: General 149(6), 1169.

Mitchell, G., & Tetlock, P.E. (2017). Popularity as a poor proxy for utility: The case of implicit prejudice. In S.O. Lillenfeld & I.D. Waldman (Eds), Psychological Science Under Scrutiny: Recent Challenges and Proposed Solutions (p.164-195). Hoboken: Wiley-Blackwell.

Oswald, F.L., Mitchell, G., Blanton, H., Jaccard, J., & Tetlock, P.E. (2013). Predicting ethnic and racial discrimination: A meta-analysis of IAT criterion studies. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 105(2), 171-192.

Oswald, F.L., Mitchell, G., Blanton, H., Jaccard, J., & Tetlock, P.E. (2015). Using the IAT to predict ethnic and racial discrimination: Small effect sizes of unknown societal significance. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 108(4), 562-571.

Papageorge, N.W., Gershenson, S., & Kang, K. (2016). Teacher expectations matter. IZA Discussion Papers No. 10165, Institute for the Study of Labor (IZA), Bonn.

Payne, B.K., Vuletich, H.A., & Lundberg, K.B. (2017). The bias of crowds: How implicit bias bridges personal and systemic prejudice. Psychological Inquiry 28(4), 233-248.

Rae, J.R., Newheiser, A-K., & Olson, K.R. (2015). Exposure to racial out-groups and implicit race bias in the United States. Social Psychological and Personality Science 6(5), 535-543.

Reyes, R.M., Thompson, W., & Bower, G. (1980). Judgemental biases resulting from differing availabilities of arguments. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 39(1), 2-12.

Singal, J. (2017, January 11). Psychology’s favorite tool for measuring racism isn’t up to the job. The Cut. Retrieved from https://www.thecut.com/2017/01/psychologys-racism-measuring-tool-isnt-up-to-the-job.html

Staats, C., Captosto, K., Tenney, L., & Mamo, S. (2017). State of the science: Implicit bias review. Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity, The Ohio State University.

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128: Should I Redshirt My Child?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 09:00:00 +0000

Parents – worried about their child’s lack of maturity or ability to ‘fit in’ in a classroom environment – often ask me whether they should hold their child back a year before entering kindergarten or first grade. In this episode I review the origins of the redshirting phenomenon (which lie in Malcolm Gladwell’s book Outliers, and which statisticians say contained some seriously dodgy math), what it means for your individual child, as well as for the rest of the children in the class so you can make an informed decision.

Jump to highlights:

(01:00) Malcolm Gladwell’s anecdote about the Junior League Medicine Hat Tigers and Vancouver Giants ice hockey teams that initiated the redshirting craze
(02:56) Ability grouping is done in early childhood, just like in sports
(03:59) Parents holding their children back from kindergarten came to be referred to as redshirting
(10:20) How common is redshirting?
(11:04) Boys are redshirted at a ratio of 2:1 compared to girls
(12:18) The maturationist approach of why to redshirt
(13:05) State support and agenda for redshirting
(15:10) Teachers tendency to view a maturationist view of development.
(17:16) The Maturation Hypothesis
(17:36) Parents redshirt their children to give their child an advantage
(20:34) Redshirting as a way to give boys age and size advantage and avoid getting bullied
(27:28) Making a judgement call into what benefits mean with regards to the body of research on redshirting
(29:24) The evidence of whether redshirting is beneficial
(35:19) Misdiagnosis of ADHD caused by relative maturity
(37:56) A year outside of school reduces the likelihood that children receive timely identifications of learning difficulties
(38:35) Students with speech impairments may actually benefit from redshirting
(39:22) Redshirted students may have more behavioral problems in high school
(46:04) Children from higher socioeconomic status are more likely to perform well in tests in kindergarten
(48:19) It’s possible that the way the teacher sees the child is what helps the child because of Labelling Theory
(49:46) Opportunity hoarding associated with middle-class, White parents.
(52:01) Is kindergarten truly the new first grade?
(56:06) Advocating for Developmentally Appropriate Practice or DAP
(57:35) Almost everyone agrees that retention has negative impacts on children
(58:55) Accumulative Advantage
(01:00:07) Malcolm Gladwell’s proposed solution to homogenize and my thoughts on it
(01:02:32) Summary
(01:04:56) Why I think asking “should I redshirt my child” is the wrong question

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Click here to read the full transcript

Jen 00:02

Hi, I’m Jen and I host the Your Parenting Mojo Podcast. We all want our children to lead fulfilling lives, but it can be so hard to keep up with the latest scientific research on child development and figure out whether and how to incorporate it into our own approach to parenting. Here at Your Parenting Mojo, I do the work for you by critically examining strategies and tools related to parenting and child development that are grounded in scientific research and principles of respectful parenting.

Jen 00:29

If you’d like to be notified when new episodes are released, and get a FREE guide called 13 Reasons Why Your Child Won’t Listen to You and What to do About Each One, just head over to YourParentingMojo.com/SUBSCRIBE. You can also continue the conversation about the show with other listeners and the Your Parenting Mojo Facebook group.

Jen 00:48

I do hope you’ll join us.

Jen 01:00

Hello and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. We have an odd person to thank for what has turned into a bit of an epic episode, and that’s Malcolm Gladwell. His 2011 book Outliers: The story of success opens with an anecdote about the junior league Medicine Hat Tigers and Vancouver Giants ice hockey teams. The point of the book is to demonstrate that personal explanations of success that draw on a narrative of self-made brilliance have a lot more to them – that successful people are the beneficiaries of hidden advantages and opportunities that help to give them a leg up in a way that isn’t open to most of us. In the example of the ice hockey teams in the book (which we’re calling ice hockey for my English listeners, to distinguish it from actual hockey, which is played on a grass field), Paula Barnsley, who is the wife of psychologist Dr. Roger Barnsley, noticed during a game that the majority of the players on teams just like the Medicine Hat Tigers and Vancouver Giants had birthdays that clustered in a certain way. Roger Barnsley went home and researched all the junior league players he could, and then the national league, and found that in any elite group of ice hockey players, 40% of the plyers will have been born between January and March, 30% between April and June, and 20% between October and December (Gladwell doesn’t say what happened to the 10% born between July and September). Barnsley said that “In all my years in psychology I have never run into an effect this large. You don’t even need to do any statistical analysis. You just look at it.”

Jen 02:28

The reason for this is that the eligibility cutoff for age class hockey is January 1, which means that children born at on January 2nd are a whole year older than children born on December 31st, which is a large proportion of a young child’s life. The same effect replicates in baseball and football (which I refuse to call “soccer”), because these also have similar age cutoffs in youth sports.

Jen 02:56

Then there’s a half page of text that really caught parents’ ears – reference to a study by two economists who looked at the relationship between scores on a standardized test, and the child’s age at the time of taking the test, and the effect was found here as well. One of the authors of that paper, Dr. Elizabeth Dhuey, was quoted as saying “Just like in sports, we do ability grouping early on in childhood…so, early on, if we look at young kids, in kindergarten and first grade, the teachers are confusing maturity with ability. And they put the older kids in the advanced stream, where they learn better skills; and the next year, because they are in the higher groups, they do even better; and the next year, the same things happen, and they do even better again.” Dr. Dhuey subsequently looked at college students and found that students belonging to the relatively youngest group in their class are underrepresented by about 11.6%. Gladwell concludes: “That initial difference in maturity doesn’t go away with time. It persists. And for thousands of students, that initial disadvantage is the difference between going to college – and having a real shot at the middle class – and not.”

Jen 03:59

Now those words are almost guaranteed to strike fear into the heart of parents, even though the real problem here is the perception that college is the only path to “having a real shot at the middle class,” who responded by holding their children back from kindergarten when their birthdays were within the last few months of the kindergarten eligibility cutoff. In the U.S., this practice came to be known as redshirting, which is a term borrowed from sports. In college athletics, which is big business in the U.S., athletes are only allowed to play for four years but they might ‘redshirt’ the first year which means they wouldn’t formally participate in competition while they get bigger and stronger. Then they can still play four years after that. But they’re not just sitting out in that year; they’re practicing with the team and getting bigger and stronger, and they wear a red shirt in practice to indicate that they’re in redshirt status. From what I’ve read on Wikipedia a coach can tell you at the beginning of the year that you’re redshirting but it isn’t confirmed until the end of the season, so if the star quarterback gets injured then the redshirted player can give up their redshirt status and still play. So that aspect doesn’t come into play in the academic setting, but the practice of holding a child out of kindergarten for the year when they are technically eligible to attend has become widely referred to as redshirting, and that’s what we’re going to discuss today.

Jen 05:11

In some ways this was a very easy episode to research, and in other ways it was incredibly difficult. We’re going to aim to answer a series of questions:

Jen 05:20

How common is redshirting?

Jen 05:22

Who does it and why do they do it?

Jen 05:24

What are the benefits of red shirting and who realizes those benefits?

Jen 05:28

And if someone benefits, who is on the other end of the stick and misses out?

Jen 05:33

And then in conclusion, what does the preponderance of the evidence indicate about whether we should redshirt our children or not?

Jen 05:39

Now before we get going on these interesting and important topics, I do want to take a slight detour here to make sure we’re all together and understanding the kinds of data and analysis that we’re working with here. In many ways, this episode was an incredible relief to research because there’s been a lot of interest in the topic, so papers were really easy to find, and the majority of them are based on State-level or National-level datasets.

Jen 06:02

So often on the show, I have to caveat the findings by saying, “Well, now I do have to warn you this study is based on what five White people in Chicago told a researcher.” or “This study is based on 100 college students who receive course credit for participating.” Here, our datasets are amazing. There are a couple of qualitative studies where researchers are interviewing just a few people, but these add a richness to the quantitative data that would otherwise be missing. The majority of the data sets are produced by State-level records of children’s birth and enrollment in school and standardized test scores with some National-level data produced in the same ways as well, combined with National-level surveys of teachers. Researchers using this data are trying to find out what happens under normal conditions when nothing is being manipulated and find correlations between things they think are related. Of course, the problem with correlational data is we can’t be sure that just because the two factors vary together that one causes the other. For example, we can find data showing that as seatbelt usage increased in cars in the 1990s, that far fewer astronauts died in spacecraft. So should we try to save astronauts life by putting on our seatbelt, maybe not.

Jen 07:08

And then sometimes States do things like change the cutoff date for kindergarten entry, and that creates what researchers call quasi-experimental data. And we can see what happens when conditions change, and people aren’t allowed to do something that they could have chosen to do in the past. And this can help us to get a bit closer to a Cause-and-Effect relationship. Although these effects may not be generalizable outside the area where the experiment happened. But we do have to be a little bit careful with big data sets. One of these issues doesn’t apply so much to us, which is the problem of having a sample size that doesn’t accurately reflect the population. There’s a nice example in one of the papers and the references about a survey of 2.4 million people, which indicated that Governor Alfred Landon of Kansas would win the 1936 election by a landslide. Now you’ve heard of President Landon, right? If not, that’s because the incumbent, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, won 46 of the then 48 States. The magazine that ran the poll surveyed its own readers who skewed towards supporting Governor Landon, so the poll respondents didn’t accurately reflect the actual population it was trying to measure.

Jen 08:13

In the State-level data, it’s possible the results wouldn’t be generalizable to populations outside the State, but they do include the vast, vast majority of students inside the State. They might exclude students who opted out of standardized testing, for example, but we have a number of National-level data sets as well, and these National-level data sets don’t necessarily include every child in the country, but they are specifically designed to be representative. So, our data sets are often fully representative of the population, and when they’re not, these are very large data sets designed to be nationally representative.

Jen 08:47

And the second thing to be aware of when you’re looking at working with large data sets is differences between the two conditions you’re studying can look statistically significant very easily. You could get a result with a State or National-level data set, that’s statistically significant at p = 0.05, which is the generally accepted standard, but which has an effect size that’s tiny and inconsequential to your life. And I always think back to research on tantrums on this topic, which might find that parents who take a certain action when their child’s having a tantrum can achieve a statistically significant reduction in the frequency of tantrums their child has. Doesn’t that sound amazing? Well, it ends up being a reduction from something like 15 to 14 tantrums a day. Is that change meaningful in a parent’s life? No, it is not.

Jen 09:33

And so one final thing to be aware of in this data is that it isn’t always super current. Even when I restrict my searches to papers published in the last five years, the data they often use is far older, especially when you’re looking at long term effects. You have to look at data from when children were in school 20 years ago, so we can’t be sure that educational methods use then are comparable to what’s used today. We’ll come back to the idea of there being more standardized testing now than there was in the past even in kindergarten, so the educational conditions that were in place when children were redshirted 20 years ago, and they’re experiencing certain outcomes now are no longer in place for your child to experience. So a study might find that children who attended kindergarten on time in the 1980s had better lifetime outcomes, but the kind of kindergarten those children attended doesn’t exist anymore.

Jen 10:20

All right, so now we’re all square on that. Our first question, How common is red shirting is actually excitingly easy to answer. A pretty good conservative estimate came up with a US national average prevalence rate of four to five and a half percent, which in a way makes us wonder why are we even doing a whole episode on it if it’s just a small percentage of people that this affects. But the national average conceals considerable variation within specific schools and demographics. In one fifth of schools that serve primarily families of high socioeconomic status, redshirting rates can be as high as 15% of all children, which translates to 60% of children being born within the three months before the cutoff for kindergarten entry being redshirted.

Jen 11:04

All right on to our next question. Who redshirts and why do they do it? Nearly 6% of White children redshirt. But fewer than 1% of Black children do. About 2% of Hispanic and 2.7% of Asian children redshirt. About 2.3% of children in the lowest socio-economic status quintile redshirt compared to 6.4% of children in the highest quintile. Boys are held back in far larger numbers than girls by a ratio of about two to one. The most surprising finding about redshirting rates occurred after North Carolina adjusted its cutoff date to enter kindergarten from October 16 to September 1 in 2006 – we’re going to come back to the data on this study pretty often – and the rate of redshirting essentially went to nil. The authors of that study say that these findings suggest that children’s absolute age rather than age relative to classmates plays a dominant role in the decision to redshirt.

Jen 11:58

Children who had been born in October would have previously been considered for redshirting, but the authors wondered, “Well did parents of August-born children just start redshirting instead? And it turned out they didn’t. For reasons the authors didn’t seem to be able to explain. And the rate of redshirting for children born between September 1 and October 16, was close to zero.

Jen 12:18

So why do parents redshirt their children? While allowing children’s absolute age to increase before they enter school is one reason which is based on the idea that children need to be mature enough when they enter school to be successful primarily because this increases children’s attention spans, their tolerance for seated instruction, and it improves their behavior. This approach to looking at redshirting has been around since the 1960s and 70s, when researchers at the Gesell Institute argued that children should be entered in school grouped and promoted on the basis of their developmental or behavioral age, not on the basis of their chronological age or IQ. The book School Can Wait was published in 1979 and perhaps this accounts for the fairly large number of parents of my generation who were surveyed about their decision to redshirt their child who report having been redshirted themselves.

Jen 13:04

In addition to popular books, there was quite a bit of enthusiasm for redshirting expressed in journal articles in this period. Like this statement from a paper in the journal education: “Redshirting is a program that can be applied at any level of the educational system nationwide, statewide district-wide or in an individual classroom with minimal or no extra costs and no disruption of things as they are and with benefit to everyone who is involved in educational systems.” Well, we’ll say more about those extra costs and those amazing benefits to everyone involved in just a bit. Following the maturationist approach, nearly half of States push their birth cutoffs back between 1975 and 2007.

Jen 13:04

The title of the legislation passed in North Carolina approving their kindergarten entry date pushback, was written, “To ensure that every child was ready to enter kindergarten.” And went on to say that raising the minimum entry age would contribute to “Reducing student dropout rates in later grades” A state representative who co-sponsored the bill commented to a New York Times reported that the State’s relatively younger students’ S.A.T. results look bad compared to older students in neighboring States who are all applying to similar colleges.

Jen 14:14

So in addition to ensuring that students would be ready, there was the additional motive of saving face on comparisons of standardized test score results. And it turned out there was some money saving that needed to happen as well. The North Carolina General Assembly’s Fiscal Research Division published a report after the 2007 legislative session that highlighted fiscal and budgetary actions and noted that the reform would reduce the Fall 2009 incoming kindergarten class by 15,360 students statewide, saving the state and counties combined more than $100 million. Now it was nice that the state and counties save some money but of course that money came from somewhere and it came out of the pockets of parents who had to find other ways to keep their children entertained during the days. Perhaps some of them were enrolled in free preschool but others were in private preschool or their parents had to be out of work longer so they could be home for the children. The State had very effectively shifted the cost burden onto parents in the name of helping students.

Jen 15:10

Teachers also tend to favor a maturationist view of development and may advise parents of children experiencing difficulties in preschool to give their children the gift of time in an attempt to promote school readiness, which is kind of surprising to me because it discounts the value of their own interactions with children.

Jen 15:28

And professional organizations of teachers tend to refute this perspective. The National Association of Early Childhood Specialists and State Departments of Education published a scathing statement in 2000 that the National Association for the Education of Young Children endorsed in 2001 and it’s called Still Unacceptable Trends in Kindergarten Entry and Placement part of it read, “Some educators believe that instruction will be easier and more effective if the variability within the class is reduced. There is, however, no compelling evidence that children learn more or better in homogenous groupings. In fact, most of them learn more efficiently and achieve more satisfactory social and emotional development in mixed ability groups. The primary consideration should be what is best for young children, not institutions, politicians or professionals. Children do not benefit from retention or delayed entry or extra year classes. The case has been made that children are placed in double jeopardy when they are denied on highly questionable premises, the same educational opportunities as their peers. Belief in the pure maturational viewpoint underlies many of the deleterious practices described in this paper. The adult belief that children unfold on an immutable timetable however appealing cannot be over generalized to intellectual, social, linguistic and emotional development. A responsive success-oriented kindergarten curriculum and a well-trained teacher are bound to have a powerful effect on young children’s learning. children come to school as competent, naturally motivated learners. One of the school’s critical responsibilities is to ensure that these characteristics are maintained and strengthened, not destroyed. The issue is not whether to keep children with age mates heterogenous – multi-age grouping can stimulate and support children’s development – it is whether we can continue to uphold practices and programs predicated on failure.”

Jen 17:16

So in other words, it is the teachers and the schools’ job to see where a child is and to meet them there and sensitively support their learning. And I think where we get tripped up is when teachers can’t do that because their job is to bring everyone into line to homogenize everyone that everyone needs to do well on the standardized tests. So that’s the maturation hypothesis.

Jen 17:36

Another reason parents redshirt their children is to give them an advantage against other children in the class. So taking on Malcom Gladwell’s argument, although this is usually couched in language about rectifying a disadvantage specific to their individual child rather than engineering or reproducing an advantage. Sometimes this is a reaction to the dominant discourse about the ‘failing boys’ crisis, which pits boys against girls for academic success. Boys are widely described as being behind girls but the achievement gap in fourth grade reading on the National Assessment of Educational Progress Standardized Test was seven points in 2019, while boys actually outscored girls in math by three points. By contrast, White students outscored Hispanic students by 21 points and Black and Native American students by 26 points in fourth grade reading. And White students outscored Hispanic students by 18 points, Native American students by 22 points, and Black students by 25 points in fourth grade math.

Jen 18:34

So it’s not clear to me why parents are worried about their boys being behind girls, when the real issues here are that even White students’ performance levels are below what is considered to be proficient in reading. And they’re at proficient level in math, when proficient means a score of 250 out of 500, or 50%. And that the discrepancy between White and Asian student’s performance compared to Hispanic, Native American, Black students is far wider. I don’t want to call this an achievement gap for two reasons. Firstly, it fails to acknowledge that very few students are actually doing well on these tests. So it’s not like closing the gap is actually going to solve all of our problems. And secondly, because the reason it looks like there’s a gap is because the skills and abilities that Hispanic Native American and Black students bring to school aren’t valued in school or tested on standardized tests. So it’s not that they don’t have skills, it’s that on average, they don’t have the skills needed to succeed in a White dominant culture. And redshirting already relatively successful White boys does nothing to address issues related to who really has the advantage here. But often redshirting is done for extracurricular reasons rather than academic reasons. A researcher who interviewed a sample of 60 parents 59, of whom were women, 90%, of whom were White, and more than half had a graduate degree, found that many parents said their sons were academically ahead. For example, they were reading by age four. The authors of another study hypothesize that parents of children who had lower social skills would be more likely to delay their children’s kindergarten entry, but we’re surprised to find no relationship between redshirting and social skills either as assessed by parents or teachers.

Jen 20:09

Many of the parents who were interviewed had actually been the youngest in their class and had been quite comfortable with it. interviewee Susan, who was considering redshirting, her son said, “I did for a second and third grade in two years. So I was always a year younger than my peers growing up. I personally don’t think it was a hindrance at all. I thought it was kind of cool. I always thought my smaller height, size, and weight, were always kind of a bonus. I thought it made me stand out because people would recognize I was the youngest and you can still do this.”

Jen 20:34

Another researcher report is the key difference here is that while girls tend to be seen as socially adept copers who take things in their stride, “middle class, White parents expressed angst at the prospect of their son’s subordinated position in the school’s masculinity hierarchy.” Here are some more quotes from the interviews of the 60 parents. Parent, Ella said in her interview, “It’s hard. There’s a difference there. I always feel like for boys, for Ethan, it seems like it would be to his advantage to have a little bit more size. Whereas for a girl, girls, I don’t know their size seems not a big deal. I didn’t want my son to be in school and be the smallest kid and be super verbal and sometimes a bit mouthy and be the kid, the lone nerd who gets beat up all the time.” Christie said, “You’re always worried that kids are going to tease them if they’re two small or little. We’ve talked to him about it being small. He does ask questions and wonders why other boys are taller than he is.” Deborah said, “And I think of the size thing too, because he’s still even as one of the oldest, one of the smallest boys in the class. So I think if we hadn’t redshirted him, he’d be even smaller, he’d be the smallest. My husband is not much taller than me and for boys, that’s important. So I thought an extra year would give him an advantage. I think school would be much more of a struggle for him if he were a grade ahead.” And then finally, Sarah said, “And so I just didn’t want my boy to be behind just because he was born over the summer and would already be the youngest. And there’s also the physically development side there. You know, I didn’t want him to have this little pipsqueak.”

Jen 22:02

And so, this corroborates with the finding that children with very low birth weight, who are likely to be on the smaller side as they grow up, are more likely to be redshirted. And linked to this is the issue of sports, which are an important proving ground for displays of masculinity. Because the 59 of the parents who were interviewed were women, there was no discontinuity in their experience, going from school on time, or skipping grades is acceptable for girls when they were young, but it’s not for boys. Here are quotes from three more parents, Hillary said, “Especially with boys and during sports and stuff, it’s always a disadvantage when they go out for sports when they’re really little. I don’t want them to be little, but he’s not. So that’s a good thing.” Deborah said, “The pressure came from my in-laws’ side. They pushed us to redshirt so he will be older and better at sports. I could see size being an issue if you were particularly tiny, but it wasn’t that at all. It was just that he’d be more competitive. He’d that have that leg up.” Sarah said, “You know, my husband’s really into sports. And he hopes that one of our boys at least will be and I mean, I think even in just that area where boys are older and developing sooner and they’re stronger and bigger, they’re going to excel more.”

Jen 23:07

And the researcher notes that parents frame the notion of struggle either academically or physically as being harmful for boys. The male child’s self esteem is to be protected at all costs, and parents assume that being among the younger children in the class will put their child at a disadvantage that requires the child to struggle while being the oldest is seen as an obvious competitive advantage. Parents often identified leadership ability as an important factor in their redshirting decision, although they often framed it in the negative saying they didn’t want their son to be a follower, which was often then trailed by a sheepish admission they wanted him to be a leader. Participant Mary Ann said, “He had just turned six and everyone else was going to be seven are already was so he became a follower. He was very intimidated and very insecure.” Another participant reported, “So he started Pre-K at age five done at six. He’s one of the oldest in the class, he’s very confident he’s the leader.”

Jen 23:59

Being a leader is obviously an important component of masculinity as we currently define it, and in addition, these parents wanted their sons to be more popular, mature, independent, and potentially have better future success in dating and better decision making skills related to things like drugs and sex when they were older.

Jen 24:16

The parents who were interviewed had a universally negative perspective on having their son skip a grade because of any potential upside of being seen as highly intelligent would be counteracted by being younger, smaller and less masculine. The researcher concludes that, “My data suggests that parents are consciously if uncomfortably motivated, at least in part by their concerns and anxieties over their son’s ability to successfully accomplish a dominant form of masculinity.” Which is expressed in increasingly narrow ways; through being in a dominant position, and not necessarily being academically or physically challenged. Parents weren’t necessarily trying to make sure their child was the tallest in the room, but rather to prevent their son from being one of the smallest or shortest boys in the class. And in doing that they made sure that role would be filled by somebody else’s son. They ignore their son’s racial, class, gender and non disabled privileges, and focused on rectifying the perceived competitive disadvantage that they saw.

Jen 25:16

Finally, besides redshirting to give the child additional time to mature and redshirting to give the child age and size advantages over appears, the third main reason parents might redshirt is to give them what researchers call holdout year experiences, which is to say experiences that will contribute to their success in school, but not all children are able to access. Although I found very few mentions of this in the literature, and researchers studying in North Carolina cutoff date shift found that this was an unlikely cause of redshirting in most cases, and the other two causes were far more prevalent and important.

Jen 25:48

I also want to observe that the view that most articles on redshirting in the popular press take is they assume each parent is out for their own child’s success and don’t consider that this individualistic view of success might create a disadvantage for another child. An article about redshirting in the New York Times from 2010 began, “After all those attentive early childhood rituals, the Flashcards, the Come on Dora the Explorer, the morning spent in cutting edge playgrounds, who wouldn’t want to give their children a head start when it’s finally time to set off for school? Suzanne Collier for one rather than send her five year old son John to kindergarten this year, the 36 year old mother from Bray, California enrolled him in a transitional kindergarten without all the rigor. He’s an active child. Ms. Collier said not quite ready to focus on a full day of classroom work. Citing a study from Malcolm Gladwell, his book, The Outliers, about Canadian hockey players, which found the strongest players with the oldest she said, if he’s older, he’ll have the strongest chance to do the best.” So, it’s not Ms. Collier doesn’t want to give her child a head start because she does, it’s just that she’s chosen to do it by holding her child back so he won’t be threatened by competition with his children his own age.

Jen 26:55

Just like Ms. Collier read Malcolm Gladwell book and decided to redshirt, other parents are reading this New York Times article and thinking, “Well, if Ms. Collier has read this book, that cites a study showing redshirting has a benefit, then perhaps I should consider it too.” This attitude of individuality sometimes creeps into academic writing as well. One academic paper I read started out, “What parent does not want their child to excel at school and in life – to be at the top of their class, popular with peers, the star athlete?” Once again, we see a very White-centric view of success. In fact, not all parents want their child to be the best at everything. Parents in some cultures have raised their children with a much more community-oriented view of success with everyone contributing to a whole. As I discussed in the podcast episode on socialization a few months ago, our focus on individualized achievement ends up costing children who are raised in more cooperative cultures in an academic environment, because the gamified way that we teach skills like reading doesn’t incentivize them and actively works against the cultural values they grew up with.

Jen 27:58

Alright, so now we’re pretty much done with the easy stuff. So let’s move on to the harder stuff. What are the benefits of redshirting and who realizes those benefits? At this point, we have to start making some judgments about what are benefits. In the studies we’ve looked at, improved scores on standardized tests are benefits and that logic works as long as you believe standardized test scores actually measure learning. When if there’s anything we know about standardized testing is that there are two things they measure most accurately: a child’s socioeconomic status and their ability to take a standardized test.

Jen 28:30

Graduating high school is considered a benefit. Attending college for as many years as possible is considered a benefit which ignores the fact that not everyone wants to or should attend college, and there are many more avenues of finding success in life than going to college. One study looked at completing a PhD as a benefit. And of course, wages are considered a benefit and higher wages are always considered a better benefit.

Jen 28:53

So what we can see here is the papers on red shirting have the norms of a capitalist culture fairly explicitly baked into them, as well as the idea that there’s a single model of success and the more children we can get to follow that model of success, the better off our children will be. So let’s accept for the sake of argument that improved scores on standardized tests improve rates of high school graduation and college attendance and lifetime earnings are adequate measures of the benefits we want our children to have. Does redshirting help children to achieve these?

Jen 29:24

Well, the evidence here seems decidedly mixed and I’ll give you the punchline first. “While, some studies do find a long term benefit, it mostly seems to wash out by about third grade, and effects seem to be pretty insignificant for girls.”

Jen 29:38

Okay, now let’s get into the details. Let’s take a look at test scores first. One study found that an additional year of age of school entry is associated with a 0.87 standard deviation in math test performance increase at a 0.16 standard deviation increase in reading test performance in the spring of the child’s kindergarten year. While a study of the impacts of the shift in North Carolina’s kindergarten cutoff date found that waiting a full year is associated with an increase in test scores on math of reading of about 0.3 standard deviations. Although the actual observed gain was less than this because not all children had a full year to wait.

Jen 30:15

A study of the National Early Childhood Longitudinal Program data found that children’s test scores at kindergarten in their entry were significantly higher when children started a year older, and their academic growth trajectory was steeper as well into third grade. Now this is a big finding, because in many other studies, the academic growth trajectory for redshirted children is not steeper, which means that while the redshirted children’s test scores are higher than the child who wasn’t redshirted, it’s because the redshirted child is older and not because being older made them able to learn more effectively.

Jen 30:48

But then another study use the same data set and extended the analysis into fifth grade and found the difference in scores between the two groups was essentially zero. Another national level study found essentially the same result extending the analysis to the eighth grade and finding only a tiny fraction of the difference seen in kindergarten. The difference in kindergarten test scores between older and younger students are on the order of one third for reading to one half for math the size of difference in scores between the richest and poorest children. So if your family can afford to redshirt, your child is already likely ahead of families who can’t. But beyond first grade, data from the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study kindergarten class of 1988-99 cohort indicates that test scores converge from first to third, third to fifth and fifth to eighth grade being older entry is associated with slower growth in reading and math test scores. This finding is in line with other work on the effects of test scores from participating in head start, or attending small classes and kindergarten, which have positive effects in the short term that fade as children age.

Jen 31:53

The research has assessed whether there is relatively more convergence between older and younger entrance within schools then across them, as there might be if teachers did something like focusing more attention on younger students. But the evidence indicated this wasn’t the case. And the convergence might be due to things parents were doing, or maybe a natural ageing process in which skills acquired earlier in life are less relevant for later achievement.

Jen 32:16

A study that examined the changes in children’s outcomes after North Carolina moved its kindergarten entry cutoff found that children born after the cutoff had higher end of grade test scores in middle school were less likely to be retained in grade between ages 11 to 15, and had lower rates of delinquency between the ages of 13 and 15.

Jen 32:35

But other studies have found no benefit of redshirting even at the youngest ages. One of the match redshirted students with students who entered on time by preschool demographics and other readiness variables, and found the two groups performed essentially the same, which does beg the question that if a year of playing in preschool essentially has the same impact on test scores as a year of academic learning, what are the benefits of academic learning? A summary of the literature between 1980 and 2000 reported that “The weight of the evidence suggests that older children may have a very modest advantage on academic assessments in the early grades of school, if at all, but their advantage is not sustained.”

Jen 33:13

A study from Australia where 20-25% of all students, not just the youngest ones enter school after they are first eligible in the five states that allow this found that delayed entry does not have a larger lasting effect on reading and numeracy test results. The authors of a study from England observed that the combined age of starting school length of schooling and relative age effects do not have a significant effect on cognitive development, and the age at the day the test is taken is the most important factor driving the difference between the oldest and youngest children in a cohort. If test results were normalized in the early years to account for the child’s age, then test performance can be eliminated as a source of desire to redshirt. This could also adjust children’s perceptions of their own competence. When younger children learn they actually do quite well when compared early to children their own age.

Jen 34:02

While middle class White parents are more likely to redshirt their children, children and families of lower socioeconomic status are more likely to enter school on time and then be held back a year. As a result of these two sets of actions, by the time the children get to third grade, the proportion of children who are below grade for age is roughly equal across the two groups. The authors of a study on this comment that there’s no socio economic status gradient in the September-August difference in third grade scores, which mean that both redshirting and retention seem to be if equally effective strategies, since children coming from different socio economic backgrounds and at roughly the same educational levels at the time of testing, regardless of their affluence.

Jen 34:40

Now, I’m sort of in two minds about these conclusions. I have to say, firstly, the fact that you could either sit out an entire year of school or attend an extra year of school and basically end up in the same place isn’t really a ringing endorsement for the effectiveness of what happens in school. But secondly, if middle class White children who are redshirted, and presumably spend an extra year in a potentially expensive private preschool, and still don’t enter school any better prepared to learn than a child who might not have had any preschool experience and just repeated a year of school for free, it makes me wonder whether that money spent on the expensive preschool was wasted, at least if the primary goal is to improve test scores.

Jen 35:19

Okay, let’s move on to learning disability diagnosis. Children who are older when they start kindergarten are less likely to be diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, ADHD, and other psychiatric diagnoses. A number of studies have shown that children born on August 31 in a district with a September 1 cut off who would be the youngest in their class are much more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD than children born on September 1 who were the oldest in their class. The researchers say that “Because ADHD incidents should not discontinuously change around the school entry birth date cutoff. These findings imply significant misdiagnosis of ADHD caused by relative maturity.

Jen 36:00

Worryingly, ADHD diagnoses are often made by comparing an individual’s child’s behavior with that of their classmates, rather than to an absolute standard. So when the average age of children in a class increases, ADHD diagnoses also increase but not uniformly. Younger children’s age appropriate behavior now looks abnormal. And a redshirted child who is older and might actually have ADHD may not receive a diagnosis because they’re still coping better than the younger classmates. A National-level study estimated that moving the kindergarten cutoff date from December 1 to September 1 increases ADHD and ADD diagnoses by about 25% in the children who weren’t affected by the date shift because these children are younger relative to their classmates.

Jen 36:45

In a large study of children who have ADHD, academic redshirting did not have a substantially meaningful impact on math or reading achievement, suggesting that the gift of time does not appear to translate into a benefit for children with ADHD who are redshirted compared to children with ADHD who were not redshirted. One weakness of the study is that participants just reported that they were either taking or not taking medication, with no information on what they were taking or for how long or whether they were compliant or if the medication seemed to be controlling symptoms or not, or when the child had been diagnosed, whether they’ve been receiving any kind of special services either before or during school.

Jen 37:23

In a way, the finding is perhaps not surprising though, given that specialized services are available in school to support children with ADHD. It might be somewhat surprising if an untrained parent were able to improve their child’s standardized test results scores more than trained therapists. I do want to be clear, I’m not indicating here that parents are not capable of supporting their ADHD diagnosed children’s learning, because in many cases, they can do this more effectively than happens in school. But when the measure of performance is the standardized test, it would surprise me if the findings showed that an extra year out of school was a benefit.

Jen 37:56

Another study of children in North Carolina over a three year period found that of children with cognitive disabilities, those who redshirted scored about a third of a standard deviation lower on math and reading scores compared with students with cognitive disabilities who entered school on time. Overall, the research has concluded the year spent outside of school reduces the likelihood they will receive timely identifications of learning difficulties and support for these and that parental efforts might be better spent earning to pay for the extra support the child will need rather than staying out of the workforce when free kindergarten is available. Once again, I do want to emphasize this is the case when results on standardized tests are used as the measure of success.

Jen 38:35

On the flip side, students with speech language impairments who redshirted actually had stronger math and reading achievement in one study compared with on time entry students with speech language impairments, and these students may actually benefit from an extra year before school starts to develop foundational language and literacy skills.

Jen 38:52

Moving on to social skills. Opponents of redshirting argue that older children may be treated as if they’re less capable than younger students in the same grade by teachers or classmates. And the oldest students may feel awkward about reaching puberty before their classmates. Although some researchers argue this is only an issue for girls who might draw “unwanted attention for reaching puberty before their classmates.” Presumably boys reaching puberty before classmates is less of a problem since puberty solidifies their masculinity and thus their advantage in the classroom.

Jen 39:22

A study using data from the National Educational Longitudinal Study of 1988 which tracks a cohort of eighth graders through young adulthood, in which the researchers selected for its rich selection of outcomes during that timeframe because there is no longitudinal data that tracks students from kindergarten to adulthood, found there were no differences in behavioral outcomes for redshirted students. These authors cited another paper that used a more complex measure of parents perception of behavior problems and reported that redshirted students have more behavioral problems in high school, which might be because they’re older than their classmates and they’re bored.

Jen 39:55

When we look at high school completion, a study of over 50,000 people who took the National Survey of income and Program Participation found that starting school a year later decreases the likelihood that a male completes High School and has roughly no impact on female educational attainment. The higher rates of school dropout were also found in a study that looked at the changes occurring after North Carolina shifted its kindergarten cutoff date, and it found that children born just after the cutoff date were also more likely to commit a felony events by age 19. And these outcomes are possibly due to the fact that children born after the cutoff date have a longer exposure to the legal possibility of dropping out. In other words, they passed the age at which they could legally dropout earlier, which means they have to suddenly want to be in school rather than being compelled to be there.

Jen 40:42

Looking at university attendance, children born in August maybe about 1.5% less likely to continue into higher education at age 18, or 19. But if they attend university, those younger children born in September, are about two and a half percentage points more likely to complete their degree. So Dr. Dewey, who’s quoted in Outliers, as describing the difference in rate at which younger children attend college is probably correct, but that’s only half the story. Joining the ranks of the middle class isn’t more likely if you get into college, you actually have to complete your degree as well. One set of researchers who found a similar outcome hypothesize that younger students are slower to develop social skills like self esteem and leadership, which leads to lower returns to effort in social activities for younger students, who then instead focus more attention on studying and perform better at university.

Jen 41:33

Consistent with this finding, the authors cite a study on first year university students in Italy, which found the youngest students are those with the least active social lives, particularly regarding romantic relationships. And in a study on the results on the Program for International Student Assessment, or PISA test, that youngest students spent more time on homework. Of course, it’s also possible these students are studying more because they find the work more difficult because they have fewer months of development. We can’t know that they’re studying at a higher level just because they’re studying more. And of course, all of this rests on the idea that a college education is essential to a successful life.

Jen 42:07

Now looking at earnings, the study of 50,000 people who took a survey of Income and Program Participation found that males who were redshirted may have higher monthly earnings, although they said their estimate was imprecise. Remember, though, that this study was the one that found that redshirted males were less likely to complete high school. Given that normally completing high school is associated with higher earnings, we would expect to see the opposite finding and the researchers don’t explain the discrepancy. We do know that delaying kindergarten entry results in delaying earnings by a year although to the extent that delaying entry improves educational outcomes, the delay may be offset by higher wages for the fewer years the adult works.

Jen 42:47

A couple of other studies using census data as well as one using data from the National educational longitudinal study of 1988 found the opposite, that adults who started school or younger age have higher wages later in life, possibly because they’re likely to gain more years of education before they can legally drop out. Or because on time school entry exposes children to formal learning for more years, which results in superior cognitive skills and from there to higher wages. These authors found that students with some of birthdates have higher average earnings later in life than students with winter birthdates.

Jen 43:19

One study looked at the National Science Foundation survey of earned doctorates, which is an annual survey of new PhD holders in the US. And I was amused to see that 93% of the people who received the survey responded, these folks certainly understand the value of a representative dataset. The authors found that after they controlled for discipline specific variation, there was no evidence of the impact of relative age of people earning the PhD and no influence on their immediate postgraduate salary. But they also estimated a relative salary loss of over $138,000 in lifetime earnings for Red Shirted individuals who earned the PhD assuming the income increases at a rate of 3% annually, because they missed that first year of earning early in their career which compounds over a 30 year period.

Jen 44:06

The same authors note the Gladwell his reliance on draft selection as the outcome variable is incomplete and misleading because it’s actually the youngest Canadian hockey players who have relatively longer careers in the NHL, and participate disproportionately in elite levels of competition like all star games and Olympic teams.

Jen 44:23

So you can pick a certain variable outcome like draft selection, or kindergarten test score achievement and think that you found the answer. And if your goal is to get drafted, which would be a pretty great goal for a lot of people, or to do well on his kindergarten, standardized test, then you’re doing the right thing by red shirting. But if your goals are different, then you can’t assume that the benefits that you saw at one level will still be there at another level.

Jen 44:47

Moving on to health. The study of 50,000 people who took the survey of income and program participation found that males who are redshirted were less likely to report that they were in fair to poor health and more likely to report They were in excellent or very good health. Although we should say self reported data on health isn’t the most accurate way to get this information. No differences were found for females. The researchers weren’t sure how red shirting affects health, they hypothesized it could be through increased earnings. But again this result is inconsistent with the finding that Red Shirted males were less likely to complete school. The research was pointed to a study in Denmark, which found that red shirting improves mental health outcomes at age seven and that effect persisted to age 11. This could be a potential driver. they assess the relationship between ADHD treatment and self reported health in a different data source, and estimated that ADHD could explain as much as 46% of the benefit of red shirting on improved health impacts in their study. Although they acknowledged this was a correlational estimate only and could be overestimated. Even so this points to a massive problem of Miss diagnosing normal attentional problems as a disease that needs to be treated. If we start Miss diagnosing ADHD then any potential health advantage associated with redshirting would be much smaller.

Jen 46:04

Taking a quick look at impacts on differences in scores by socioeconomic status. and national levels study found that children from higher socioeconomic status are more likely to perform well in tests on kindergarten not a big surprise there, especially when they’re older at time of entry, which may mean that increases in overall entrance age have the professor effect of exacerbating socio economic differences in school performance.

Jen 46:27

Looking at impacts on differences in scores by race, one of the studies of children in North Carolina found that Black girls who had to wait after the kindergarten cutoff date moved increase their scores on both reading and math. And the gap in scores between Black and White children fell substantially for boys, probably due to the fact that before the cutoff shift, White boys were the demographic group most likely to redshirt, so White boys lost their aged advantage relative to other groups under the new policy. However, another one of the North Carolina studies found that red shirting contributes to what the research has called achievement gaps between so called minority and non minority students in third grade by as much as eight to 11% for girls and 28 to 30% for boys.

Jen 47:09

Honestly, I’m not sure how to reconcile these conflicting results with the National Assessment of Educational Progress his testing results for North Carolina, which still clearly show that Black students test scores substantially lag those of Whites, it’s possible that the relatively low number of red shares his data was obscured in the broader state level data. But I want to be clear, we’re not suddenly looking at some massive shift that equalizes test results between those two groups of children.

Jen 47:36

Okay, so that’s kind of a summary of where we are with the benefits and the picture is decidedly mixed. So when we think about benefits, another thing we need to think about is who is on the other end of the stick and misses out. Strangely, increasing the average age of a particular child’s classmates actually can positively influence that child’s test results, while simultaneously increasing the likelihood that a student repeats a grade in school or receives a learning disability diagnosis. The researchers hypothesized that the older peers positively influenced this student’s achievement but the teachers and parents group decisions about grade retention and referrals to behavior professionals are mostly based on the child’s performance relative to classmates.

Jen 48:19

It’s also possible that it isn’t the extra year maturity that’s actually helping the child but the way the teacher sees the child, there’s a fairly strong line of research on labelling theory, which is the idea that if the teacher calls the child smart, and even just thinks of them as smart, they actually end up doing better in school by the end of the year and will do better in school than a child who the teacher thinks is stupid. Even a child’s physical attractiveness has had a strong association with the teacher’s reactions to the child. So it’s possible that part of any positive effects that we do see related to redshirting are because the teacher looks at the older child and thinks smart child, and then the child who is younger but entered school on time as not so smart, which impacts the Red Shirted child positively. And the child who entered on time negatively, the smart child gets tracked into the gifted and talented program and may stay on that track for the rest of their school career, getting extra resources and attention and support along the way, which compounds our success.

Jen 49:16

One potential concern with red shirting is that a child who’s a year older than the rest of their classmates might end up significantly ahead of their peers, which could cause them to get bored and drop out of school. This has a couple of effects that are important to consider. Firstly, parents often identify resources in advance that they can access if this ends up being an issue. One mother in an interview reported that she picked a school that had a gifted and talented program so that if her Red Shirted child wasn’t being challenged enough in his regular class, that he could be pulled out for special attention.

Jen 49:46

Middle class White parents as a group have quite a lot of political clout at school. And it’s not uncommon for a group of parents to get together at the school bus stop or in a social media platform, where they share information about programs that might benefit them. Then campaign to get access to them. I’m going to quote for an extended passage from one study, quote, it was through informal information sources that a group of parents got wind of the differences in the four kindergarten programs available at school. They organized a mini revolt against what they saw as an unchallenging kindergarten program in the afternoon classes. A number of mothers got together and discuss the differences in the kindergarten activities and how the kids weren’t learning too much in the afternoon kindergartens. wanting the afternoon program to be more like the morning program, they first went to the principal and then to the superintendent to complain. School officials pressed the afternoon kindergarten teachers to incorporate more academic activities within the curriculum. The afternoon teachers responded to parental dissatisfaction through a weekend reading program, in which they sent reading books home for children and parents to work on together. They found it necessary to highlight the academic skills embedded in the activities they were already doing with their students. informally, they told me they were changing how they taught to keep the peace there described feeling bruised and embattled by the confrontation, and that they felt a strain between the morning and afternoon staffs and quote,

Jen 51:05

This is an example of what researchers call opportunity hoarding, because this diversion of resources toward children who would have been appropriately challenged if they’d entered school on time, and away from children whose parents did what the school district told them was best and who are chronically shortchanged in the first place. If you’re interested in learning more about this, I did an episode A while ago now on how White privilege is perpetuated in schools that goes into more depth on it.

Jen 51:28

Even if gifted and talented programs aren’t available, teachers are now teaching a group of five-year-olds who might be in a school-like environment for the first time, alongside another set of children who are up to six years three months old, who come from affluent homes, have three years of Montessori preschool experience, and parents who know how to exert their power over the system to get access to resources for their children. This can have the effect of causing teachers to teach to the higher end of classroom abilities, even though it would be more developmentally appropriate to teach toward the children who entered kindergarten on time.

Jen 52:01

There has been a general lamenting over the years about how ‘kindergarten is now the new first grade,’ so some researchers looked at whether this actually the case. They looked at data from the Early Childhood Longitudinal Program, which covered between 18,000 and 21,000 children between 2,500 and 2,700 kindergarten teachers, as well as 3,350-3,850 1st grade teachers over the 12 year span between 1998 and 2010. This huge dataset allowed the researchers to explore the changes to public school kindergarten classrooms across five dimensions; teachers’ beliefs about school readiness, curricular focus and time use, classroom materials, pedagogical approach, and assessment practices. And the results of this study were extensive, but I’ll just give you the highlights, and there are quite a lot of these because I think it’s really important to understand how this impacts the issue of redshirting.

Jen 52:53

The percentage of kindergarten teachers who reported that knowing the letters of the alphabet was very important or essential more than doubled from 19% in 1998 to 48% in 2010. The percentage of teachers who indicated color and shape identification and counting skills were important rose by 28 and 22 percentage points, respectively. In 1998, just over a third of kindergarten teachers reported daily music instruction. This figure dropped by 18 percentage points in 2010, and a similar pattern is evident for art instruction, where the percentage of teachers reporting daily instruction dropped from 27% to 11%. 18% of teachers reported never doing theater activities with their kindergarteners in 1998, in 2010 that figure rose to 50%. In 1998 only 11% of teachers reported never teaching dance to their students compared with 37% in 2010.

Jen 53:44

In 1998, 44% of kindergarten teachers reported that they never taught “conventional spelling,” because it was covered in a later grade. This figure plummeted to 17% in 2010. Relatedly, the percentage of teachers who reported teaching conventional spelling on a daily basis rose sharply from 45% to 76%. The same general patterns hold for the other topics like composing and writing complete sentences; composing stories with a beginning, a middle, and an end; place value; writing math equations; and probability. Daily use of textbooks in kindergarten more than doubled for both reading and math. For instance, only 11% of teachers in 1998 reported using a basal reader daily, compared with 26% of teachers in 2010. Substantial increases in daily use of worksheets were also seen, up 17 percentage points for reading and 15 for math.

Jen 54:32

One particularly important finding was that kindergarten classrooms in the later period devote considerably more time to standardized tests than first-grade teachers did 11 years earlier. In 2010, roughly 30% of public school kindergarten teachers reported using standardized tests at least once a month. This is 2.6 times more often than the rate reported by first-grade teachers in 1999.

Jen 54:57

Overall, the researchers concluded that relative to their counterparts in 1998, public school kindergarten teachers in 2010 are far more likely to believe that academic instruction should begin prior to kindergarten entry. They are also more than twice as likely to expect that most children will leave their classrooms knowing to read. We observe a corresponding increase in literacy and math content instruction in kindergarten classrooms, with particularly large increases in time spent on “challenging” topics previously considered outside the scope of kindergarten.

Jen 55:27

Now, this study didn’t look specifically at redshirting, but when we go back to that topic we can see the impact that redshirting has on the first-grading of kindergarten – when you have more children from affluent families showing up for kindergarten, whose parents want them to be academically challenged, it becomes easier for teachers to just go with the flow of pressure from the school district to increase test scores, and pressure from parents to challenge their children. They bring more of traditionally first grade practices into the kindergarten classroom, and parents of the next cohort of August-born children become even more worried that their children aren’t ready for school, so they redshirt, and the cycle keeps feeding itself.

Jen 56:06

Early childhood educators have advocated for the use of Developmentally Appropriate Practice, which is defined as “teaching decisions that vary with and adapt to the age, experience, interests, and abilities of individual children within a given age range.” Proponents of DAP stress that deciding whether an instructional move is developmentally appropriate depends upon knowing the student, not a standard, and that “Standards-based approaches represent backward movement, designed to force early childhood programs into molds that don’t work with older students and are downright harmful for young children.”

Jen 56:42

Other authors have said that high-stakes testing beginning as early as preschool has pushed early childhood educators to instruct in ways that have nothing to do with the way children learn and what they’re interested in. Rather than only considering their cognitive development, we also need to individualize their instruction in ethnically, culturally, and developmentally diverse ways. Unfortunately, researchers have yet to identify any “culturally and linguistically responsive, standards-based curriculum that meets the social, emotional, and cognitive needs of all children.” Is it possible for such a unicorn to exist? I’m not really sure. I think it probably depends on how you define “standards-based.” If this means that the subjects and learning outcomes are determined outside of the classroom and school, then no, I don’t think you can have a curriculum that is responsive to local circumstances AND standards-based. The two are mutually exclusive.

Jen 57:35

So where do we land with all this information? Almost everyone agrees that retention; holding children back to re-do a year of school, has negative effects on children, in terms of attitudes about school, self-esteem, and increased probability of dropping out, but these effects are independent of age. Redshirting is not a guarantee that a child will repeat a grade. When students are matched based on their probability of repeating a grade, younger students perform as well as older ones.

Jen 58:03

A big part of the problem here is that despite decades of research, educators and policymakers have no clear idea of what makes a student ready for kindergarten. Age doesn’t seem to be an adequate predictor, and while there are a number of tests available they have poor levels of validity (which means they don’t measure what they’re supposed to measure) and reliability (which means your child could get tested today, and again next week, and receive dramatically different scores). These tests aren’t being used for their intended purpose anyway – Kindergarten Entry and Readiness Assessments were meant to inform policymakers and stakeholders about the supports and services young children need prior to kindergarten and to maximize learning opportunities, not as a screening or diagnostic tool, or a tool to evaluate kindergarten readiness programs. As with all standardized tests, success on these tests is highly correlated with socioeconomic status, favoring children from economically advantaged homes.

Jen 58:55

Malcolm Gladwell points out that people who are successful are most likely to be given the kinds of special opportunities that lead to further success. “It’s the rich who get the biggest tax breaks. It’s the best students who get the best teaching and most attention. And it’s the biggest nine- and ten-year-olds who get the most coaching and practice. Success is the result of what sociologists like to call “accumulative advantage.” The professional hockey player starts out a little bit better than his peers. And that little difference leads to an opportunity that makes that difference a bit bigger, and that edge in turn leads to another opportunity, which makes the initially small difference bigger still – and on and on until the hockey player is a genuine outlier. But he didn’t start out an outlier. He started out just a little bit better.

Jen 59:37

Do you see the consequences of the way we have chosen to think about success? Because we so profoundly personalize success, we miss opportunities to lift others onto the top rung. We make rules that frustrate achievement. We prematurely write off people as failures. We are too much in awe of those who succeed and far too dismissive of those who fail. And, most of all, we become much too passive. We overlook just how large a role we all play – and by “we” I mean society – in determining who makes it and who doesn’t.”

Jen 01:00:07

Gladwell’s proposed solution is to homogenize – to run three classes in each grade so each student is taught with other students who are exactly their age. But of course, Gladwell doesn’t have any children and doesn’t seem to have spent much time around children either. Anyone who has will know that different children can be at dramatically different developmental stages even if their birthdays are only three months apart from each other, so what good would this serve? And what about the extra preparation that the children from affluent families would have had, which would essentially make the tight age clustering irrelevant?

Jen 01:00:36

Just supposing we were able to somehow separate children into three groups each year so they were really tightly clustered around a tight band of ability, we might be able to teach them to pass a standardized test more effectively. But we already know how to do this; it’s called ‘tracking,’ ‘gifted and talented programs,’ and it separates children based on the socioeconomic status of their families and diverts more resources to the children who already started with more. In my mind, the solution is not to homogenize. We know that we all benefit from true diversity – of backgrounds, of ages, and of ideas. Children learn very effectively in mixed-age classrooms that are taught in ways that leverage the knowledge of children who are ahead on a particular topic. These children get to consolidate their learning as they work with children who haven’t yet learned the material. We could teach in ways that don’t create arbitrary rewards like gold stars and pizza parties for doing things like learning to read, which alienate children from families where cooperation and community are valued. Teachers know how to do this, but very often they have little say in the expensive reading programs that their entire district purchases.

Jen 01:01:39

The problem arises when we try to teach everyone in the same way, and expect them to all pass the standardized test at the same time, as if they were all exactly the same. Parents often ask me whether there’s a critical period to start reading and doing more traditional school learning, and they worry that their children will be missing out if they redshirt. There are two parts to this answer: firstly, there is no critical period to learn reading. Research indicates that by fifth grade, children who learn to read as late as third grade will read just as fluently as children who learned to read earlier. The problem is that reading is treated in school as if it’s the only way to learn, so a child who can’t read will miss out on the material that’s being covered as well as the skill of reading itself, when most of the time this material could be presented in other ways but isn’t. You might find that an older child is better able to control any impulse they might have to sit still in their seat when they’re told to, which could offset the lack of experience in having done this at an earlier age.

Jen 01:02:32

So, to summarize where we’ve been, redshirting may help your child to look like they’re ahead of other children in academic learning early in their school career, but this seems to mostly wash out in a few years. Redshirting does not guarantee that your child won’t repeat a year later on either. If your child has a learning disability, the increased time away from school may result in their issue not being discovered, or being discovered later, delaying the time until they get extra support. Being older in high school may lead to a child being more mature and making better decisions, or it might lead to them being bored and acting out, and dropping out early. They’ll probably have an advantage in sports, and we learned in our episode on how playing sports impacts children that future employers do use positions on sporting teams as a signal of the child’s skills as well as a sense of clubbiness – that if the hiring manager also played sports then they could see that the potential employee was likely to fit in with the culture of the division and the company. To the extent that redshirting gives an advantage even at collegiate-level sports, this may confer an advantage – and while I couldn’t find research on this specifically, there’s plenty of anecdata on parents redshirting specifically to gain this advantage, and even transferring to private school for a year in 8th grade to improve academic grades and gain some size and strength, which could potentially increase their chances at college admission and scholarships for those few children who enter college through this route.

Jen 01:03:56

The effects of redshirting on other children in the class, who are younger, and perhaps haven’t attended as many years of preschool, seem decidedly mixed. Redshirting your child somewhat increases the likelihood that the children in your child’s class who entered school ‘on time’ will be diagnosed with ADHD. While parents might explain their decision to redshirt in terms of rectifying a disadvantage for their son, the actual effect is to generate and sustain an advantage. It’s really sad to me that middle class White parents redshirt their younger, smaller boys because they don’t want their children to get bullied in school. The assumption is that everyone else’s child will bully mine, but my redshirted child of course wouldn’t use their size advantage against any other children when they do enter school. It also represents an enormous loss of resources when the only way boys can express masculinity is through being the biggest, strongest leader in the classroom, and that academic work, or teamwork (which might be misconstrued by adults as ‘following’ rather than ‘leading’) or caring for others are not viable paths for boys. To me, asking the question ‘should I redshirt my child’ is asking the wrong question. Instead, we should be asking ‘why do conditions exist that are making me consider redshirting, and how can I work with my child and other children to make these conditions not exist anymore?”

Jen 01:05:12

I imagine this episode didn’t give you the clear answer you were hoping for if you are thinking of redshirting your child, but I hope it does give you an idea of what the body of evidence says on this topic, and how it can impact your decision. You can find references for the more than 35 papers I referenced for this show at yourparentingmojo.com/redshirting

Jen 01:05:33

Thanks for joining us for this episode of Your Parenting Mojo. Don’t forget to subscribe to the show at YourParentingMojo.com to receive new episode notifications and the FREE Guide to Thirteen Reasons Your Child Isn’t Listening to You and What To Do About Each One, and also join the Your parenting Mojo Facebook group. For more respectful research-based ideas to help kids thrive and make parenting easier for you, I’ll see you next time on Your Parenting Mojo.

References:

Albanesi, H.P. (2019). Tilting the playing field: ‘Redshirting’ kindergarten boys in the US and the competition for hegemonic masculinity. Gender and Education 31(2), 240-257.

Albanesi, H.P. (n.d.). ‘Redshirting’ of kindergarteners and the reproduction of class privilege. Manuscript in preparation.

Arnold, G., & Depew, B. (2018). School starting age and long-run health in the United States. Health Economics 27, 1904-1920.

Barnard-Brak, L., Stevens, T., & Albright, E. (2017). Academic redshirting and academic achievement among students with ADHD. Contemporary Educational Psychology 50, 4-12.

Bassok, D., & Reardon, S.F. (2013). “Academic Redshirting” in kindergarten: Prevalence, patterns, and implications. Educational Evaluation and Policy Analysis 35(3), 283-297.

Bassok, D. Latham, S., & Rorem, A. (2016). Is kindergarten the new first grade? AERA Open 1(4), 1-31.

Cook, P.J., & Kang, S. (2013, February). Birthdays, schooling, and crime: New evidence on the dropout-crime nexus. NBER Working Paper Series. Working Paper 18791. National Bureau of Economic Research. Retrieved from: http://www.nber.org/papers/w18791

Cook, P.J., & Kang, S. (2018, April). The school-entry-age rule affects redshirting patterns and resulting disparities in achievement. NBER Working Paper Series, Working Paper 24492. National Bureau of Economic Research. Retrieved from: http://www.nber.org/papers/w24492

Crawford, C., Dearden, l., & Greaves, E. (2014). The drivers of month-of-birth differences in children’s cognitive and non-cognitive skills. Journal of the Royal Statistical Society 177(4), 829-860

Elder, T.E., & Lubotsky, D.H. (2009). Kindergarten entrance age and children’s achievement: Impacts of state policies, family background, and peers. The Journal of Human Resources 44(3), 641-683.

Fortner, C.K., & Jenkins, J.M. (2018). Is delayed school entry harmful for children with disabilities? Early Childhood Research Quarterly 44, 170-180.

General Assembly of North Carolina (2007). Session Law 2007-173 House Bill 150. Author. Retrieved from: https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/SessionLaws/PDF/2007-2008/SL2007-173.pdf

Graue, M.E., & DiPerna, J. (2000). Redshirting and early retention: Who gets the ‘gift of time’ and what are the outcomes? American Educational Research Journal 37(2), 509-534.

Graue, M.E. (1993). Expectations and ideas coming to school. Early Childhood Research Quarterly 8, 53-75.

Greenburg, J.E., & Winsler, A. (2020). Delayed kindergarten entry among low-income, ethnically diverse children: Prevalence, predictors, and selection patterns. Early Childhood Research Quarterly 53, 496-506.

Hover, A. (2018). Making informed decisions about academic redshirting and retention through school and community partnerships. International Journal of Whole Schooling 14(2), 53-62.

Ilg, F.L., & Ames, L.B. (1964). School readiness, behavior tests used at the Gesell Institute. Scranton, PA: Harper and Row.

Jenkins, J.M., & Fortner, C.K. (2019). Forced to redshirt: Quasi-Experimental impacts of delayed kindergarten entry. (EdWorkingPaper: 19-120). Retrieved from Annenberg Institute at Brown University: http://www.edworkingpapers.com/ai19-120

Jones, L. D., & Sutherland, H. (1981). Academic redshirting: A positive approach to grade retention. Education, 102, 173–175.

Kaplan, R.M., Chambers, D.A., & Glasgow, R.E. (2014). Big data and large sample size: A cautionary note on the potential for bias. Clinical and Translational Science 7(4), 342-346.

Kniffin, K.M., & Hanks, A.S. (2016). Revisiting Gladwell’s hockey players: Influence of relative age effects upon earning the Ph.D.. Contemporary Economic Policy 34(1), 21-36.

Larsen, S.A., Little, C.W., & Coventry, W.L. (2020). Exploring the associations between delayed school entry and achievement in primary and secondary school. Child Development (Online first). Retrieved from: https://srcd.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/cdev.13440

Lenard, M.A., & Pena, P.A. (2018). Maturity and minorities: The impact of redshirting on achievement. Education Economics 26(6), 593-609.

Lincove, J.A., & Painter, G. (2006). Does the age that children start kindergarten matter? Evidence of long-term educational and social outcomes. Educational Evaluation and Policy Analysis 28(2), 153-179.

Lubotsky, D., & Kaestner, R. (2016). Do ‘skills beget skills’? Evidence on the effect of kindergarten entrance age on the evolution of cognitive and non-cognitive skill gaps in childhood. Economics of Education Review 53, 194-206.

Moore, R. S. (1979). School can wait. Provo, UT: Brigham Young University Press.

National Assessment of Educational Progress (2020). NAEP report card: Reading. Retrieved from: https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/reading/nation/groups?grade=4

National Assessment of Educational Progress (2020). NAEP report card: Mathematics. Retrieved from: https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/mathematics/nation/groups?grade=4

National Association of Early Childhood Specialists in State Departments of Education (2000). STILL unacceptable trends in kindergarten entry and placement. Author. Retrieved from: https://www.naeyc.org/sites/default/files/globally-shared/downloads/PDFs/resources/position-statements/Psunacc.pdf

North Carolina General Assembly, Fiscal Research Division. 2007. “Highlights: Fiscal and Budgetary Actions (2007 Regular Session).

Oshima, T.C., & Domaleski, C.S. (2010). Academic performance gap between summer-birthday and fall-birthday children in grades K-8. The Journal of Education 99(4), 212-217.

Payne, T., Joseph, R.A., Yampolskaya, S., & Vatalaro, A. (2020). Florida HIPPY parents successfully prepare their children for kindergarten. Early Childhood Research Quarterly 53, 650-657.

Paul, P. (2010, August 20). The littlest redshirts sit out kindergarten. The New York Times. Retrieved from: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/fashion/22Cultural.html

Pellizzari, M., & Billari, F. (2011, January 31). The younger, the better? Age related differences in academic performance at university. Journal of Population Economics 25(2), 697-739.

Redshirt (college sports) (n.d.). Retrieved October 22, 2020, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_(college_sports)

Repko-Erwin, M.E. (2017). Was kindergarten left behind? Examining US kindergarten as the new first grade in the wake of No Child Left Behind. Global Education Review 4(2), 58-74.

Weil, Elizabeth. 2007. “When Should a Kid Start Kindergarten?” The New York Times, June 3, 2007.

Wilson, A. (2018). Pipeline to failure: Social inequality and the false promises of American Public Schooling. Unpublished Master’s Thesis. New York: The City University of New York.

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Responding to the U.S. Capitol Siege

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 09:00:00 +0000

In this ad hoc episode, I outline a response to the U.S. Capitol siege. I provide some suggestions for ways to talk with your child about the events, but also ask that you take two more steps: (1) examine your own role in these events, even if you condemn them yourself (as I do); (2) take action based on your own position and role in the world to work toward equality.

You can find my resources on the intersection of parenting and race here.

There’s a specific blog post suggesting a script for talking with children about the Black Lives Matter movement (which could be adapted for this situation) here.

Showing Up for Racial Justice’s Action Hours are here

Jump to highlights

00:01 Introduction: an informal, unedited live episode after the Capitol events

01:57 How to start a conversation with children when they haven’t asked

03:46 Answering questions honestly, including saying “I don’t know”

05:50 Examining our own role in the system, not just pointing at “those people”

10:33 Looking at policies at school, daycare, and work through an anti-racist lens

12:06 How patriarchy creates scarcity, separation, and powerlessness

16:25 Why this connects directly to parenting

18:51 Fake choices: how “peaceful parenting” can still use force in disguise

22:27 Concrete ways to take action, including Showing Up for Racial Justice

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126: Problem Solving with Dr. Ross Greene

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 06 Dec 2020 09:00:00 +0000

Let’s talk problem solving! Many of us have tried it, but it’s so common to get stuck…and to think that the method doesn’t work, and then return in exasperation to the methods we’d been using all along. These often involve coercion, or forcing the child to do something they don’t want to do – but what’s the alternative?

In this episode we talk with Dr. Ross Greene, who developed the Collaborative & Proactive Solutions (formerly Collaborative Problem Solving) approach in his books The Explosive Child and Raising Human Beings. I really enjoyed digging into the research for this episode (why do all the papers describing CPS compare its effectiveness to behaviorist-based approaches?) but I ended up really taking one for the team: we didn’t have time for all of my questions on the research because I wanted to make sure to address the challenges with problem solving that parents in the free Your Parenting Mojo Facebook group described when I asked them about this topic.

These challenges included:

How to problem solve with very young children
What to do when the same issue recurs over and over and the solutions we decide on together don’t seem to help
How to navigate a child not wanting to leave the park when it’s time to go
How to approach a child who doesn’t seem to be able to or refuses to communicate their feelings

Dr. Greene’s books

Raising Human Beings(Affiliate link)
The Explosive Child(Affiliate link)

Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits

Do you have a child aged 1 – 10? Are they resisting, ignoring you, and talking back at every request you make? Do you often feel frustrated, annoyed, and even angry with them? Are you desperate for their cooperation – but don’t know how to get it? If your children are constantly testing limits, the Setting Loving (& Effective!) Limits workshop is for you.

Click the banner to learn more.

Jump to highlights

00:59 Introduction to the episode and guest Dr. Ross Greene

04:12 How power shows up in traditional parent-child relationships

07:01 Reframing “problem behavior” as incompatibility

12:24 Parenting the child in front of you, not the child you wish you had

13:53 What Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C actually mean

18:36 Why solved problems reduce challenging behavior

20:36 The three steps of Plan B: Empathy, Define concerns, Invitation

31:02 Eight drilling strategies for getting past “I just like it here”

39:09 Why CPS performs as well as behavior-focused approaches in the research

46:18 Problem solving with very young or nonverbal children

53:10 What to do when a child says “I don’t know” or “I don’t care”

56:11 When a solution doesn’t work because of impulsivity

References

Note: Direct links to presentations from conferences can be found on Dr. Greene’s Lives in the Balance website: https://livesinthebalance.org/research

Booker, J., & Ollendick, T.H. (2019). Patterns in the parent-child relationship and clinical outcomes in a randomized control trial. Presented at symposium, Collaborative and Proactive Solutions as an alternative to Parent Management Training for youth with oppositional defiant disorder: A comparison of therapeutic models. World Congress of Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies, Berlin, Germany.

Booker, J.A., Capriola-Hall, N.N., Dunsmore, J.C., Greene, R.W., & Ollendick, T.H. (2018). Change in maternal stress for families in treatment for their children with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Journal of Child and Family Studies 27, 2552-2561.

Booker, J.A., Ollendick, T.H., Dunsmore, J.C., & Greene, R.W. (2016). Perceived parent-child relations, conduct problems, and clinical improvement following the treatment of Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Journal of Child & Family Studies 25, 1623-1633.

Calam, R. M. (2016). Broadening the focus of parenting interventions with mindfulness and compassion. Clinical Psychology: Science and Practice , 23(2), 161–164.

Dedousis-Wallace, A., Drysdale, S., Murrihy, R.C., Remond, L., McAloon, J., Greene, R.W., & Ollendick, T.H. (2019). Predictors and moderators of Parent Management Training and Collaborative & Proactive Solutions in the treatment of oppositional defiant disorder in youth. Presented at symposium, Collaborative and Proactive Solutions as an alternative to Parent Management Training for youth with oppositional defiant disorder: A comparison of therapeutic models. World Congress of Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies, Berlin, Germany.

Dunsmore, J.C., Booker, J.A., Ollendick, T.H., & Greene, R.W. (2016). Emotion socialization in the context of risk and psychopathology: Maternal emotion coaching predicts better treatment outcomes for emotionally labile children with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Social Development 25(1), 8-26.

Fitzgerald, M., London-Johnson, A., & Gallus, K.L. (2020). Intergenerational transmission of trauma and family systems theory: An empirical investigation. Family Therapy 42(3), 406-424.

Greene, R., & Winkler, J. (2019). Collaborative & Proactive Solutions (CPS): A review of findings in families, schools, and treatment facilities. Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review 22, 549-561.

Greene, R.W. (2016). Raising Human Beings: Creating a collaborative partnership with your child. New York, NY: Scribner.

Greene, R.W. (2014). The explosive child: A new approach for understanding and parenting easily frustrated, chronically inflexible children. New York, NY: Harper Paperbacks

Greene, R.W., & Doyle, A.E. (1999). Toward a transactional conceptualization of Oppositional Defiant Disorder: Implications for assessment and treatment. Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review 2(3), 129-148.

Hart, R. (1992). Children’s participation: From tokenism to citizenship. UNICEF. Retrieved from: https://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/childrens_participation.pdf

Kroger, J., Martinussen, M., & Marcia, J.E. (2010). Identity status change during adolescence and young adulthood: A meta-analysis. Journal of Adolescence 33, 683-698.

Miller-Slough, R.L., Dunsmore, J.C., Ollendick, T.H., & Greene, R.W. (2016). Parent-child synchrony in children with Oppositional Defiant Disorder: Associations with treatment outcomes. Journal of Child and Family Studies 25(6), 1880-1888.

Murrihy, R.C., Drysdale, S., Wallace, A., Remond, L., McAloon, J., Greene, R.W., & Ollendick, T.H. (2019). Parent Management Training (PMT) and Collaborative & Proactive Solutions (CPS): A randomized comparison trial for oppositional youth within an Australian population. Presented at symposium, Collaborative and Proactive Solutions as an alternative to Parent Management Training for youth with oppositional defiant disorder: A comparison of therapeutic models. World Congress of Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies, Berlin, Germany.

Tiberio, S.S., Capaldi, D.M., Kerr, D.C.R., Bertrand, M., Pears, K.C., & Owen, L. (2016). Parenting and the development of effortful control from early childhood to early adolescence: A transactional developmental model. Developmental Psychopathology 28(3), 837-853.

Zero to Three (2016). Tuning in: National parent survey report. Author. Retrieved from: https://www.zerotothree.org/resources/1425-national-parent-survey-report

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125: Should you worry about technoference?

Jen Lumanlan — Fri, 20 Nov 2020 02:23:00 +0000

I often hear two related ideas about adults’ screen usage around children. Sometimes the parent asking the question guiltily confesses to using screens around their children more than they would like, and to using screens as a momentary escape from the demands of parenting.

Or the parent asking the question feels that they have found a sense of balance in their own screen usage, but worries about their partner who frequently ignores their child because they’re so focused on a screen.

In this episode we interview a luminary in the field of research related to children and screen usage: Dr. Jenny Radesky, who is a Developmental Behavioral Pediatrician and Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Michigan Medical School. Her research interests include the use of mobile technology by parents and young children, and how this relates to child self-regulation and parent-child interaction, and she was the lead author of the 2016 American Academy of Pediatrics policy statement on digital media use in early childhood.

We’ll learn whether you should be worried about Technoference, and some judgement-free steps you can take to navigate your (or your partner’s) screen usage around your child.

Parenting Membership

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Jump to highlights

08:16 Introduction to the episode and guest Dr. Jenny Radesky

08:38 What technoference and fubbing mean, and how they’re related

21:17 How parents describe their own ambivalence toward their phones

32:19 How children describe noticing a parent’s divided attention

34:48 A word-learning study: what a brief interruption costs a child

40:38 A nuance from Australian research: some technoference isn’t harmful

48:32 Practical starting points: noticing your own habits first

55:29 What to do when it’s a partner’s phone use, not your own

References

Al-Saggaf, Y., & O’Donnell, S.B. (2019). Phubbing: Perceptions, reasons behind, predictors, and impacts. Human Behavior & Emerging Technology 1, 132-140.

Christensen, T.H. (2009). ‘Connected presence’ in distributed family life. New Media & Society 11(3), 433-451.

Desrochers, S., Hilton, J.M., & Larwood, L. (2005). Preliminary validation of the work-family integration blurring scale. Journal of Family Issues 26(4), 442-466.

Elias, N., Lemish, D., Dalyot, S., & Floegel, D. (2020). “Where are you?” An observational exploration of parental technoference in public places in the U.S. and Israel. Journal of Children and Media (Online first).

Gramm, M.M., Vollmer, R.L., Harpel, T.S., McDaniel, B., & Schumacher, J. (2019). Relationship between parent distraction with technology at mealtimes and child eating behavior: A pilot study. Journal of Technology in Behavioral Science 5(1), 15-19.

Hinkier, A., Sobel, K., Suh, H., Sung, Y-C., Lee, C.P., & Kientz, J.A. (2015). Proceedings of the 33^rd annual ACM conference on human factors in computing systems (p.727-736.

Hong, W., Liu, R-D., Ding, Y., Oei, T.P., Zhen, R., & Jiang, S. (2019). Parents’ phubbing and problematic mobile phone use: The roles of the parent-child relationship and children’s self-esteem. Cyberpsychology, Behavior, and Social Networking 22(12), 779-786.

Kelly, K.R., & Ocular, G. (2020). Family smartphone practices and parent-child conversations during informal science learning at an aquarium. Journal of Technology in Behavioral Science 1-10.

Lemish, D., Elias, N, & Floegel, D. (2020). “Look at me!” Parental use of mobile phones at the playground. Mobile Media & Communication 8(2), 170-187.

Mangan, E., Leavy, J., & Jancey, J. (2017). Mobile device use when caring for children 0-5 years: A naturalistic playground study. Health Promotion Journal of Australia 29, 337-343.

McDaniel, B.T., & Drouin, M. (2019). Daily technology interruptions and emotional and relational well-being. Computers in Human Behavior 99, 1-8.

McDaniel, B.T., Galovan, A.M., Cravens, J.D., & Drouin, M. (2018). “Technoference” and implications for mothers’ and fathers’ couple and coparenting relationship quality. Computers in Human Behavior 80, 303-313.

McDaniel, B.T., & Radesky, J.S. (2017). Technoference: Longitudinal associations between parent technology use, parenting stress, and child behavior problems. Pediatric Research 84(2), 210-218.

Misra, S., Cheng, L., Genvie, J., & Yuan, M. (2014). The iPhone effect: The quality of in-person social interactions in the presence of mobile devices. Environment and Behavior 48(2), 275-298.

Modecki, K.L., Low-Choy, S., Uink, B.N., Vernon, L., Correia, H., & Andrews, K. (2020). Tuning into the real effect of smartphone use on parenting: A multiverse analysis. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 61(8), 855-865.

Myruski, S., Gulyayeva, O., Birk, S., Perez-Edgar, K., Buss, K.A., & Dennis-Tiwary, T.A. (2018). Developmental Science 21(4), e12610.

Newsham, G., Drouin, M., & McDaniel, B.T. (2020). Problematic phone use, depression, and technology interference among mothers. Psychology of Popular Media 9(2), 117-124.

Niu, G., Yao, L., Wu, L., Tian, Y., Xu, L., & Sun, X. (2020). Parental phubbing and adolescent problematic mobile phone use: The role of parent-child relationship and self-control. Children and Youth Services Review 116, 105247.

Pancani, L., Gerosa, T., Gui, M., & Riva, P. (2020). “Mom, dad, look at me”: The development of the Parental Phubbing Scale. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 0265407520964866.

Perez, S. (2012, August 27). One-Third of U.S. moms own connected devices, 97% of ipad moms shopped from their tablet last month. Retrieved from https://techcrunch.com/2012/08/27/report-one-third-of- u-s-moms-own-connected-devices-97-of-ipad-moms-shopped-from- their-tablet-last-month/

Radesky, J., Leung, C., Appugliese, D., Miller, A.L., Lumeng, J., & Rosenblum, K.L. (2018). Maternal mental representations of the child and mobile phone use during parent-child mealtimes. Journal of Developmental Behavioral Pediatrics 39(4), 310-317.

Radesky, J.S., Kistin, C., Eisenberg, S., Gross, J., Block, G., Zuckerman, B., & Silverstein, M. (2016). Parent perspectives on their mobile technology use: The excitement and exhaustion of parenting while connected. Pediatrics 37(9), 694-701.

Radesky, J., Miller, A.L, Rosenblum, K.L., Appugliese, D., Kaciroti, N., & Lumeng, J. (2014). Maternal mobile device use during a structured parent-child interaction task. Academic Pediatrics 15(2), 238-244.

Radesky, J., Kistin, C.J., Zuckerman, B., Nitzberg, K., Gross, J., Kaplan-Sanoff, M., Augustyn, M., & Silverstein, M. (2014). Patterns of mobile device use by caregivers and children during meals in fast food restaurants. Pediatrics 133(4), e843-e849.

Reed, J., Hirsh-Pasek, K., & Golinkoff, R.M. (2017). Learning on hold: Cell phones sidetrack parent-child interactions. Developmental Psychology 53(8), 1428-1436.

Sagioglou, C., & Greitmeyer, T. (2014). Facebook’s emotional consequences: Why Facebook causes a decrease in mood and why people still use it. Computers in Human Behavior 35, 359-363.

Turvill, A., Fiso, D., & Parker, E. (2019). Early childhood technoference threat is predicted by authoritative parenting, but not parental knowledge of digital risks.

Wong, R.S., Tung, K.T.S., Rao, B., Leung, C., Hui, A.N.N., Tso, W.W.Y., Fu, K-W., Jiang, F., Zhao, J., & Ip, P. (2020). Parent technology use, parent-child interaction, child screen time, and child psychological problems among disadvantaged families. The Journal of Pediatrics. Online first.

Xie, X., & Xie, J. (2020). Parental phubbing accelerates depression in late childhood and adolescence: A two-path model. Journal of Adolescence 78, 43-52.

Xie, X., Chen, W., Zhu, X., & He, D. (2019). Parents’ phubbing increases adolescents’ mobile phone addiction: Roles of parent-child attachment, deviant peers, and gender. Children and Youth Services Review 105, 104426.

Yuan, N., Weeks, H.M., Ball, R., Newman, M.W., Chung, Y-J., & Radesky, J.S. (2019). How much do parents actually use their smartphones? Pilot study comparing self-report to passive sensing. Pediatric Research 86(4), 416-418.

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SYPM 008: Fostering Positive Sibling Relationships with Future Focused Parenting

Jen Lumanlan — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 09:00:00 +0000

Sibling relationships can be SO HARD! Sometimes it might seem that we can’t leave them alone for even a second before they’re at each other’s throats, and on top of this we see their struggles and are reminded of the struggles that we had with our own siblings so many years ago. This can cause us to overreact in the moment, even when we know it’s not helping the situation.

I discussed some of the reasons behind sibling squabbles a couple of years ago in a conversation with Dr. Susan McHale of Penn State University. In today’s episode we build on this knowledge by discussing some super practical tools to help parents foster positive sibling relationships.

In this Sharing Your Parenting Mojo episode I talk with Kira Dorrian and Deana Thayer of Future Focused Parenting, who host the Raising Adults podcast. The parents of seven children between them, including a set of twins and five in a blended family, Kira and Deana know their way around sibling squabbles.

We discuss ways to stop being the person who always has to moderate every disagreement and instead equip our children with the skills they need to find solutions to their own problems.

Jump to highlights:

02:37 Laying the foundation of possible sibling relationships by Daena Thayer.

04:35 Sibling relationship is the first peer relationship by Kira Dorrian.

05:53 How to prepare your kids for sibling rivalry?

12:02 Problem solving with children.

15:28 Teaching your child active listening.

20:01 Doing what’s best, not the easiest.

23:23 Problem solving in school.

25:55 How to deal with conflict as children grow older.

30:52 Social exclusion in schools and the calendar of character traits.

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118: Are You Raising Materialistic Kids?

Jen Lumanlan — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 09:00:00 +0000

This episode on the topic of materialism concludes our series on the intersection of parenting and money. Here we talk with Dr. Susanna Opree of Erasmus University Rotterdam, who studies the effect of advertising and commercial media on use, materialism, and well-being.

We discuss how children’s understanding of materialism shifts as they age, the extent to which advertising contributes to materialism, and the specific role that parents play in passing on this value.

Other episodes in this series:

This episode is the second in a series on the intersection of parenting and money. You can find other episodes in this series:

038: The Opposite of Spoiled

105: How to pass on mental wealth to your child

107: The impact of consumerism on children

112: How to Set up a Play Room

115: Reducing the Impact of Advertising to Children

Jump to highlights

03:01 Introduction to the episode and guest Dr. Suzanna Opree

03:15 Defining materialism: three components

09:32 How materialism links to well-being and life satisfaction

11:53 Life events, divorce, and children turning to possessions

18:32 How children’s understanding of brands develops with age

22:32 Why parents remain the biggest influence on a child’s materialism

25:06 Conditional rewards and punishments tied to material goods

28:22 Letting children have a say in family purchase decisions

31:07 How peer pressure shapes materialism, informational and normative

42:45 Why materialism peaks in adolescence, and the role of transitions

53:27 Ways to actually reduce materialism, from gratitude to connection

References:

Batinga, G.L., de Rezende Pinto, M., Resende, S.P. (2017). Christmas, consumption, and materialism: Discourse analysis of children’s Christmas letters. Revista Brasileira de Gestão de Negócios-RBGN 19(66), 557-573.

Burroughs, J.E., Chaplin, L.N., Pandelaere, M., Norton, M.K., Ordabayeva, N., Gunz, A., & Dinauer, L. (2013). Using motivation theory to develop a transformative consumer research agenda for reducing materialism in society. Journal of Public Policy & Marketing 32(1), 18-31.

Chaplin, L.N., & John, D.R. (2007). Growing up in a material world: Age differences in materialism in children and adolescents. Journal of Consumer Research 34(4), 480-493.

Chaplin, L.N., & John, D.R. (2010). Interpersonal influences on adolescent materialism: A new look at the role of parents and peers. Journal of Consumer Psychology 20, 176-184.

Chaplin, L.N., Hill, R.P., & John, D.R. (2014). Poverty and materialism: A look at impoverished versus affluent children. Journal of Public Policy & Marketing 33(1), 78-92.

Chaplin, L.N., John, D.R., Rindfleisch, A., & Froh, J.J. (2018). The impact of gratitude on adolescent materialism and generosity. The Journal of Positive Psychology 14(4), 502-511.

Gentina, E., Shrum, L.J., Lowrey, T.M., Vitell, S.J., & Rose, G.M. (2018). An integrative model of the influence of parental and peer support on consumer ethical beliefs: The mediating role of self-esteem, power, and materialism. Journal of Business Ethics 150, 1173-1186.

Goldberg, M.E., Gorn, G.J., Peracchio, L.A., & Barmossy, G. (2003). Understanding materialism among youth. Journal of Consumer Psychology 13, 278-288.

John, D.R. (1999). Consumer socialization of children: A retrospective look at twenty-five years of research. Journal of Consumer Research 26(3), 183-213.

Kassert, T. (2018). Materialism and living well. In E. Diener, S. Oishi, & L. Tay (Eds.), Handbook of Well-being. Salt Lake City, UT: DEF Publishers

Kasser, T. (2002). The high price of materialism. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.

Kasser, T., Ryan, R.M., Zax, M., & Sameroff, A.J. (1995). The relations of maternal and social environments to late adolescents’ materialistic and prosocial values. Developmental Psychology 31(6), 907-914.

King, R.B. (2018). Materialism is detrimental to academic engagement: Evidence from self-report surveys and linguistic analysis. Current Psychology 1-8.

Lyonski, S., Durvasala, S., & Rayner, R. (2017). The processing of advertising: Does a consumer’s level of materialism make a difference? Innovative Marketing 13(1), 11-23.

Opree, S.J., Buijzen, M., & van Reijmersdal, E.A. (2016). The impact of advertising on children’s psychological wellbeing and life satisfaction. European Journal of Marketing 50(11), 1975-1992.

Opree, S.J., Buijzen, M., van Reijmersdal, E.A., & Valkenburg, P.M. (2013). Children’s advertising exposure, advertised product desire, and materialism: A longitudinal study. Communication Research 41(5) (2014): 717-735.

Opree, S.J., Buijzen, M., & Valkenburg, P.M. (2012). Lower life satisfaction related to materialism in children frequently exposed to advertising. Pediatrics 130(3), e486-e491.

Richins, M.L., & Chaplin, L.N. (2015). Material parenting: How the use of goods in parenting fosters materialism in the net generation. Journal of Consumer Research 41, 1333-1357.

Richins, M.L. (2017). Materialism pathways: The processes that create and perpetuate materialism. Journal of Consumer Psychology 27(4), 480-499.

Roberts, J.A., & Clement, A. (2007). Materialism and satisfaction with over-all quality of life and eight life domains. Social Indicators Research 82, 79-92.

Robinson, S. (2018). Authenticity Guaranteed: Masculinity and the rhetoric of anti-consumerism in American culture. Boston, MA: University of Massachusetts Press.

Saunders, S., & Munro, D. (2000). The construction and validation of a consumer orientation questionnaire (SCOI) designed to measure Fromm’s (1955) “marketing character” in Australia. Social Behavior and Personality 28, 219-240.

van der Goot, M.J., Rozendaal, E., Opree, S.J. Ketelaar, P.E., & Smit, E.G. (2018). Media generations and their advertising attitudes and avoidance: A six-country comparison. International Journal of Advertising 37(2), 289-308.

van der Meulen, H., Kuhne, R., & Opree, S.J. (2017). Validating the material values scale for children (MVS-c) for use in early childhood. Child Indicators Research 11(4), 1201-1216.

Vanderpyl, T. (2019). “I want to have the American Dream”: Messages of materialism as a driving force in juvenile recidivism. Criminal Justice and Behavior 46(5), 718-731.

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117: Socialization and Pandemic Pods

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 09:00:00 +0000

One of the questions I see asked most often in parenting forums these days is some variation on:

“I’m worried about my child’s socialization now that it looks like daycares, preschools and schools have been closed for several months and will likely remain closed for several more months. Can someone please tell me if I really do need to worry about what the complete lack of socialization with other children will do to my [only] child?”

So we’ll take a look at that, and then we’ll go on to take a look at the other kinds of socialization that happen in school that you may not have even realized happens until we dig into the research on it.

I also let you know about a new Pandemic Pods ‘in a box’ course. A lot of parents are thinking of forming what are being called Pandemic Pods – a small group of children who are working together either in some kind of parent care exchange or with a hired teacher/tutor.

As I’m sure you can imagine, there are a host of ways to set up these pods in a way that exacerbate existing inequalities that pervade the public school system. And there are also ways to set them up that might actually help us to begin to overcome some of these issues. Listen in to learn how!

Click here to learn more about the Pandemic Pods ‘in a box’ course

Jump to highlights

00:03 Introduction: the question of socialization during school closures

03:30 What a “pandemic pod” is, and the social justice questions it raises

09:38 Three types of stress, and why missing school isn’t automatically harmful

12:46 What do we actually mean by “socialization”?

15:52 How White cultural norms around time and schedules show up in preschool

23:03 Show and tell, and the assumptions baked into it

30:08 Privileging written knowledge over oral storytelling, and the Tulsa Race Massacre

32:52 How achievement gaps get framed as a deficit in families

36:00 A reading rewards program that reinforced segregation and shame

39:10 Where classroom management practices actually came from

49:15 Dr. James Banks’s five kinds of knowledge, and which ones shape schools

54:19 Whose definition of “parent involvement” schools use

References

Banks, J.A. (1993). The canon debate: Knowledge construction, and multicultural education. Educational Researcher 22(5), 4-14.

Banks, J.A. (2002). Race, knowledge construction, and education in the USA: Lessons from history. Race Ethnicity and Education 5(1), 7-27.

Blum, S.D. (2017). Unseen WEIRD assumptions: The so-called language cap discourse and ideologies of language, childhood, and learning. International Multilingual Reearch Journal 11(1), 23-38.

Brown, S., Souto-Manning, M., & Laman, T.T. (2010). Seeing the strange in the familiar: Unpacking racialized practices in early childhood settings. Race Ethnicity and Education 13(4), 513-532.

Casey, Z.A., Lozenski, B.D., & McManimon, S.K. (2013). From neoliberal policy to neoliberal pedagogy: Racializing and historicizing classroom management. Journal of Pedagogy 4(1), 36-58.

Engel, S. (2011). Children’s need to know: Curiosity in schools. Harvard Educational Review 81(4), 625-645.

Hollingworth, L. (2009). Complicated conversations: Exploring race and ideology in an elementary classroom. Urban Education 44(1), 30-58.

Hoover-Dempsey, K.V., Bassler, O.C., & Brissie, J.S. (1992). Explorations in parent-school relations. The Journal of Educational Research 85(5), 287-294.

Illinois Early Learning Project (2018). Strategies for developmentally appropriate ‘show and tell’ in early childhood classrooms. Author. Retrieved from https://illinoisearlylearning.org/blogs/growing/showtell/

Leggo, C. (1998). Living un/grammatically in a grammatical world: The pedagogic world of teachers and students. Interchange 29(2), 169-184.

Pretti-Frontczak, K. (2020). A lesson in humility: Diving into anti-racist early education practices and policies (Episode 43). Pre-K Teach & Play. Retrieved from: https://prekteachandplay.com/podcast43/

Saavedra, C.M. (2011). De-academizing early childhood research: Wanderings of a Chicana/Latina feminist researcher. Journal of Latinos and Education 10(4), 286-298.

Sensoy, O., & DiAngelo, R. (2017). “We are all for diversity, but…”: How faculty hiring committees reproduce Whiteness and practical suggestions for how they can change. Harvard Educational Review 87(4), 557-580

Tulsa Historical Society and Museum (2020). 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre. Author. Retrieved from: https://www.tulsahistory.org/exhibit/1921-tulsa-race-massacre/

Viruru, R. (2001). Colonized through language: The case of early childhood education. Contemporary Issues in Early Childhood 2(1), 31-47.

Wladich, A. (2014, January 6). The importance of ‘show and tell.’ Scholastic, Inc. Retrieved from https://edublog.scholastic.com/post/importance-show-and-tell#:~:text=Show%20and%20tell%20sets%20the,an%20adult%20in%20my%20job.

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115: Reducing the Impact of Advertising to Children

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 09:00:00 +0000

We’re almost (but not quite!) at the end of our lengthy series on the intersection of money and parenting. Most recently, we talked with Dr. Allison Pugh to try to understand the answer to the question “Given that advertising is happening, how do parents and children respond?”

In this episode we take a step back by asking “what about that advertising?” with Dr. Esther Rozendaal of Radboud University in the Netherlands whose research focuses on children’s understanding of advertising messages. Can children understand that advertising is different from regular TV programming? At what age do they realize an advertisement is an attempt to sell them something? And what should parents do to reduce the impact of advertising on children? It’s all here in this episode.

Other episodes in this series

This episode is the first in a series on the intersection of parenting and money. You can find other episodes in this series:

038: The Opposite of Spoiled

105: How to pass on mental wealth to your child

107: The impact of consumerism on children

112: How to Set up a Play Room

118: Are You Raising Materialistic Kids?

Jump to highlights

00:03 Introduction to Dr. Esther Rozendaal, expert on children’s advertising literacy

02:57 How advertising works: awareness, liking, then the request to buy

08:17 Integrated advertising and how it slips past our defenses without us noticing

14:51 How advertising recognition develops with age, starting around age five

19:19 Why preschoolers can’t really grasp the concept of advertising yet

26:06 Why schools default to teaching knowledge instead of self-control

29:40 Early work using mindfulness techniques to help kids notice their own reactions

33:15 Are children helpless targets or savvy consumers? The research says both, depending on context

41:38 The surprising downside of ad warning labels – they can boost brand liking instead

50:16 The difference between telling kids what to think and helping them find their own answer

References:

Brown, C.L., Matherne, C.E., Bulik, C.M., Howard, J.B., Ravanbakht, S.B., Skinner, A.C., Wood, C.T., Bardone-Cone, A.M., Brown, J.D., Perrin, A.J., Levine, C., Steiner, M.J., & Perrin, E.M. (2017). Influence of product placement in children’s movies on children’s snack choices. Appetite 114, 118-124.

De Jans, S., Hudders, L., & Cauberghe, V. (2017). Advertising literacy training: The immediate versus delayed effects on children’s responses to product placement. European Journal of Marketing 51(11-12), 2156-2174.

De Jans, S., van de Sompel, D., Hudders, L., & Cauberghe, V. (2019). Advertising targeting young children: An overview of 10 years of research (2006-2016). International Journal of Advertising 38(2), 173-206.

DePauw, P. (2018). A multiperspective inquiry into children’s abilities to critically process contemporary advertising. Unpublished doctoral dissertation, Ghent University, Belgium. Retrieved from https://biblio.ugent.be/publication/8571901/file/8571904.pdf

Nairn, A., & Spotswood, F. (2013). “Obviously in the cool group they wear designer things:” A social practice theory perspective on children’s consumption. European Journal of Marketing 49(9/10), 1460-1483.

Ritson, M., & Elliott, R. (1999). The social uses of advertising: An ethnographic study of adolescent advertising audiences. Journal of Consumer Research 26(3), 260-277.

Rozendaal, E., Buijs, L., & van Reijmersdal, E.A. (2016). Strengthening children’s advertising defenses: the effects of forewarning of commercial and manipulative intent. Frontiers in Psychology 7, 1186.

Rozendaal, E., Buijzen, M., & Valkenburg, P.M. (2012). Think-aloud process superior to thought-listing in increasing children’s critical processing of advertising. Human Communication Research 38, 199-221.

Rozendaal, E., Buijzen, M., & Valkenburg, P. (2011). Children’s understanding of advertisers’ persuasive tactics. International Journal of Advertising 30(2), 329-350.

Rozendaal, E., Lapierre, M.A., van Reijmersdal, E.A., & Buijzen, M. (2011). Reconsidering advertising literacy as a defense against advertising effects. Media Psychology 14, 333-354.

Rozendaal, E., Buijzen, M., & Valkenburg, P. (2009). Do children’s cognitive advertising defenses reduce their desire for advertised products? Communications 34, 287-303.

Shrum, L.J., Lowrey, T.M., Pandelaere, M., Ruvio, A.A., Gentinka, E., Furcheim, P., Herbert, M., Hudders, L., Lens, I., Mandel, N., Nairn, A., Samper, A. Soscia, I., & Steinfeld, L. (2014). Materialism: The good, the bad, and the ugly. Journal of Marketing Management 39(17-18), 1858-1881.

Spotswood, F., & Nairn, A. (2016). Children as vulnerable consumers: A first conceptualization. Journal of Marketing Management 32(3-4), 211-229.

Vanwesenbeeck, I., Ponnet, K., & Walrave, M. (2016). Go with the flow: How children’s persuasion knowledge is associated with their state of flow and emotions during advergame play. Journal of Consumer Behavior 15(1), 38-47.

Verdoodt, V., Clifford, D., & Lievens, E. (2016). Toying with children’s emotions, the new game in town? The legality of advergames in the EU. Computer Law & Security Review 32(4), 599-614.

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114: How to stop ‘Othering’ and instead ‘Build Belonging’

Jen Lumanlan — Fri, 19 Jun 2020 09:00:00 +0000

I had originally approached today’s topic of Othering through a financial lens, as part of the series of episodes on the intersection of parenting and money (previous episodes have been on NYT Money colunist Ron Lieberman’s book The Opposite of Spoiled, How to Pass on Mental Wealth to your Child, The Impact of Consumerism on Parenting, and How to Set Up A Play Room. The series will conclude in the coming weeks with episodes on advertising and materialism).

I kept seeing questions in parenting groups: How can I teach my child about volunteering? How can I donate the stuff we don’t need without making the recipient feel less than us?

And, of course, after the Black Lives Matter movement began its recent up-swing of activity, the topic took on a new life that’s more closely related to my guest’s work: viewing othering through the lens of race.

My guest, Dr. John A. Powell, is an internationally recognized expert in the areas of civil rights and civil liberties and a wide range of issues including race, structural racism, ethnicity, housing, poverty, and democracy. He is the Director of the Othering & Belonging Institute (formerly Haas Institute for a Fair and Inclusive Society), which supports research to generate specific prescriptions for changes in policy and practice that address disparities related to race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, disability, and socioeconomics in California and nationwide. In addition to being a Professor of Law and Professor of African American Studies and Ethnic Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, Professor powell holds the Robert D. Haas Chancellor’s Chair in Equity and Inclusion.

Our conversation was wide-ranging and touched on a host of topics and thinkers, which I promised to track down if I could. These include:

Martha Minow’s book Making All The Difference

Aristotle’s theory of Arithmetic and Geometric Equality

Judith Butler’s book Gender Trouble

Amartya Sen’s idea that poverty is not a lack of stuff, but a lack of belonging

Dr. Susan Fiske’s work on the connection between liking and competence

Lisa Delpit’s book Other People’s Children

Dr. Gordon Allport’s book The Nature of Prejudice

Max Weber’s idea of methodological individualism

The movie Trading Places (I still haven’t seen it!)

This blog post touches on Dr. powell’s idea of the danger of allyship

John Rawls’ idea that citizens are reasonable and rational

Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs

Richard Bernstein’s concept of the regulative ideal

Dr. John Powell’s Book

Racing to Justice: Transforming Our Conceptions of Self and Other to Build an Inclusive Society (Affiliate link).

Jump to highlights

01:11 Introduction to Dr. john powell, director of the Othering and Belonging Institute at UC Berkeley

03:33 Defining othering: when someone isn’t seen as fully equal or fully human

09:07 How categories we treat as essential, like race and gender, are actually built by society

11:57 Why “saming” (treating everyone the same) doesn’t fix othering either

18:39 Why the Western idea of independent agency is really a distortion, and what it costs us

22:41 Unpacking poverty stats and the trap of trying to define “the other” while fighting othering

29:34 Rethinking what it means to be a “good parent” across different approaches to raising kids

39:34 Talking to kids about poverty and homelessness without slipping into White-savior territory

47:10 How volunteering can other people too, and what it means to give without turning away

52:30 Wrapping up with belonging – why it may be our most basic need, even before food and safety

References

Brons, L. (2015). Othering, an Analysis. Transcience 6(1), 69-90.

Collins, P.L. (1986). Learning from the outsider within: The sociological significance of Black feminist thought. Social Problems 33(6), S14-S32.

Cohen, Y., Krumer-Nevo, M., & Avieli, N. (2017). Bread of shame: Mechanisms of othering in soup kitchens. Social Problems 64(3), 398-413.

Day, C.R. (2019). “They don’t think like us”: Exploring attitudes of non-transgender students toward transgender people using discourse analysis. Journal of Homosexuality 1-20.

De Beauvoir, S. (1949) The Second Sex. Harmondworth: Penguin.

Doerr, N.M. (2015). Volunteering as othering: Understanding a paradox of social distance, obligation, and reciprocity. Partnerships 6(2), 36-57.

Fenz, Katharina, & Kharas, H. (2020, March 23). Mortaility perspective on COVID-19: Time, location, and age. Brookings Institution. Retrieved from https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/03/23/a-mortality-perspective-on-covid-19-time-location-and-age/

Goodall, J. (2019). Parental engagement and deficit discourses: Absolving the system and solving parents. Educational Review 1-13.

Harmer, E. and Lumsden, K. (2019) ‘Introduction: Online Othering.’ In: K. Lumsden and E. Harmer (eds) Online Othering: Exploring Violence and Discrimination on the Web. Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan. Pre-print version retrieved from https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/59238046/Introduction_Online_Othering_Pre-print.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DOnline_Othering_Exploring_Violence_and_D.pdf&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A%2F20200218%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20200218T001640Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=19497262c02b96ddd9361e4936e72fb046b4b856c2b306aefdacd0f6fcef41d0

Krumer-Nevo, M., & Sidi, M. (2012). Writing against othering. Qualitative Inquiry 18(4), 299-309.

Krumer-Nevo, M., & Benjamin, O. (2010). Critical poverty knowledge: Contesting othering and social distancing. Current Sociology 58(5), 693-714.

Jimoh, A.K. (2019). Justice and the othered minority: Lessons from African communalism. In E. Imafidon (Ed.), Handbook of African Philosophy of Difference. Pre-print version retrieved from https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/59757383/Justiced_and_the_Othered_Minority20190616-24770-kd7vxw.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DJustice_and_the_Othered_Minority_Lessons.pdf&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A%2F20200218%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20200218T010152Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=7bf2ced278b8293aa1bf8105460e6cb912c7a764d07ff94af269e48e039e698f

Jensen, S.Q. (2011). Othering, identity formation and agency. Qualitative Studies 2(2), 63-78.

Kitzinger, C. and Wilkinson, S. (1996). Theorizing representing the other. In: S. Wilkinson and C. Kitzinger (eds.), Representing the Other (1-32). London: Sage.

Leroy, M. (2019). Controlling the ever-threatening ‘Other.’ ANGLICA – An International Journal of English Studies 28(3), 133-144.

Lister, R. (2015). ‘To count for nothing’: Poverty beyond the statistics. Journal of the British Academy 3, 139-165.

powell, j.a., & Menendian, S. (2016). The problem of othering: Towards inclusiveness and belonging. Othering and Belonging. Retrieved from http://www.otheringandbelonging.org/the-problem-of-othering/

powell, j.a. (2012). Racing to justice: Transforming our conceptions of self and other to build an inclusive society. Bloomington, IN: Indiana University Press.

Rosenberg, T. (2018, September 13). The business of voluntourism: Do western do-gooders actually do harm? The Guardian. Retrieved from https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/sep/13/the-business-of-voluntourism-do-western-do-gooders-actually-do-harm

Todorov, T. (1984). The conquest of America: The question of the other. Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma Press.

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108: How to cope with the Coronavirus pandemic

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 15 Mar 2020 09:00:00 +0000

In this episode we discuss how to cope with parents’ and children’s fear and anxiety related to the Coronavirus pandemic, how to keep the children busy so you can get some work done (without resorting to hours of screen time), and how to use the time that you are focused on them to develop your family relationships as well as their learning, rather than you driving each other nuts.

To download a FREE sample routine to help you organize your days, and also join a FREE one-week workshop to give you the tools you need to cope with this situation, please go to yourparentingmojo.com/coronavirus

Other episodes mentioned in this show

Talk Sex Today

Understanding the AAP’s new screen time guidelines

Raising your child in a digital world

Resources

List of video conferencing companies offering free services

Geocaching website

Nature journaling videos with John Muir Laws

Jump to highlights

00:58 Introduction of episode

04:16 Difference between fear, worry, anxiety, and panic and how they impact a person

07:23 Official diagnosis of anxiety

08:36 Official diagnosis of a panic attack

10:05 What can we do to be less afraid

16:33 Difference between routine and schedule

22:48 A learning exploration

29:49 Parents worry about loneliness

39:50 Realization during the pandemic

Click here to read the full transcript

Hello, and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast! I know that listeners who have been with me for a while know that an episode is going to be different when I dispense with the music at the beginning – I think the last time I did this was six months ago when I announced that I was taking a break from the show. But have no fear; I’m not going anywhere – I just did it today to indicate that this is not a normal show because these are not normal times. I’m recording this on March 15 2020, four days after the World Health Organization declared that the coronavirus outbreak is a pandemic, which means it is dispersed across a very wide geographic area and affects many individuals at the same time. Many, many things have been canceled in the last few days – most schools are canceled for at least the next few weeks; big events are canceled or postponed, and we’re being advised to practice ‘social distancing’ by remaining six feet apart from other people.

This all seems really big and super stressful and I’m not going to go into the details of much of the epidemiological information because frankly that isn’t my specialty. But I also know that a lot of you are struggling with issues that very much do fall into my wheelhouse – things like “what on earth am I going to do with my kids for the next six weeks when we usually start to get on each other’s nerves on day six of a vacation,” and “will my child get behind on school work,” and “how am I going to still get my own WORK work done so I can get paid and keep us afloat while we’re all cooped up in this tiny space?”

So in this episode I’m going to cover two main things – firstly, resources for you, because you may well be feeling quite anxious and approaching the end of your rope already and unsure how you’re going to make it through the coming weeks.

Then we’ll talk about issues that affect your children while we’re going through this and how to answer your children’s questions about the virus and how to be thoughtful about screen time when it seems like there’s nothing else to do and also how to support their learning while they’re out of school.

And because I know some of you are REALLY stressed out about this, I also want to let you know about a FREE one-week workshop that I’m running starting on March 23^rd. It draws together elements of many of the paid workshops and memberships that I’ve built over the last few years into resources that you can use RIGHT NOW. So for example, I’m in the middle of hosting a workshop on Taming Your Triggers, where we spend weeks digging into the many sources of your triggers because we often find that if we understand those better it creates space for us to choose a different reaction. But right now we KNOW the source of our triggers – for many of us it’s our anxiety about the virus and about being cooped up with our kids – whom we love and cherish and enjoy, but just not ALL DAY EVERY DAY. So we go right to the strategies that you can put in place immediately to feel less triggered by the situation, which will allow you to respond more effectively to your child when they’re acting out.

We’ll also cover similar, immediately implementable strategies to cope with sibling fighting in a way that gives your children tools to solve their own problems, ways to keep children busy so you can get things done, and how to use their own interests as a jumping off point for real learning that isn’t based on worksheets or spelling drills or math problems for when you do have focused time with them.

So if all that sounds like something you could use, just head on over to yourparentingmojo.com/coronavirus and sign up; you just have to enter your name and email address and you’re in. There’s no charge whatsoever, so if you know of other parents among your friends, family, colleagues, and online networks and groups that could benefit from this then please do feel free to forward the yourparentingmojo.com/coronavirus page. The workshop gets started on March 24^th, and as a bonus, as soon as you sign up I’ll email you a sample daily routine that you can use to bring a sense of order to the few days that we have until we get started. I don’t think you necessarily need a formal schedule, and you may do just fine even without the parameters of a loose routine, but since many of our children will be coming from the highly routinized worlds of daycare and school, they may find the structure gives them a sense of security when so much around them might feel uncertain. So that routine should carry you through the days when this is all still new and being out of daycare or school is still somewhat exciting, and then when you’re starting to get on each other’s nerves and you’re wondering how you’re going to do this for the foreseeable future, I’ll be standing right alongside you with tools to help. If you’d like to download that sample schedule and sign up for the workshop, just go to yourparentingmojo.com/coronavirus, and as a reminder it is completely FREE, so please do share it with anyone you think might benefit.

OK, so on to our topic for today – and in the spirit of putting your own oxygen mask on before helping others with theirs, let’s start with you.

I know a lot of you are really anxious about what’s happening in the world at the moment, so I want to be really specific about our language here and define our terms. I’m going to walk through the difference between fear, worry, anxiety, and panic.

When we’re thinking about fear, then that’s a response to a known or definite threat. If we’re hiking in the woods and we see a bear, fear is a normal response. Our bodies use fear to trigger us to do something productive, which is usually fight or flight, or sometimes the freeze response which can mean playing physically – or emotionally – dead. For many of us, we are very fortunate that in the situation we’re in with the virus, objectively speaking there really isn’t a lot to fear. If we are healthy and our children are healthy and the elderly people we know are staying home and staying away from people who might have been infected, then there really isn’t a lot to have actual fear about. Yes, there is still a possibility that we might catch the virus and we’ll probably feel crappy for a couple of weeks, but the transmission rate in children seems to be very low, and the fatality rate in healthy adults and children is very very low, so we probably won’t be too severely impacted.

But if we think out beyond our immediately fortunate circumstances, then there actually is quite a lot of reason to be afraid. If our elderly relatives can’t be completely isolated, or if we or our family members are immunocompromised, or if we care about people who are forced to live in close quarters like prison, or who are homeless and lack access to the basic sanitation practices that we are able to take for granted, or if we are working on the front lines in hospitals then that fear suddenly seems very rational because there IS a threat. The threat is HERE, and it’s happening now.

When we feel fear for an extended period of time – longer than it takes to run away from a bear – we often worry. Worrying is defined by being exact; we’re not generally worried about things in general; we’re worried about something specific. We’re worried that we are going to catch the virus and pass it on to others. We’re worried that our vulnerable friends and relatives are going to be seriously ill or die. In many cases, in regular life, worry is actually adaptive, which means it’s useful. It tells us that there’s something we need to focus on and maybe shift our approach. The problem here, of course, is that many of us are already doing the things we’ve been told to do to reduce the transmission of the virus, but if there are things we simply can’t do – like not going to work if we’re a nurse and we’re not sick, or completely protecting our parents who are in ill health – and then it’s much more difficult to reduce the worry by changing our approach.

When we can’t reduce our worries, they may become generalized into anxiety, which is a diffuse, unpleasant, vague sense of apprehension. It’s possible that you might not even say what’s making you anxious – yes, you’re anxious about the virus, but even after you’ve rationally told yourself about the relatively low risks to most people, you might still feel anxious and not really be able to fully explain why. We don’t often feel worry in our bodies, but we feel anxiety. The official diagnosis requires three or more of the following six symptoms to be present – restlessness or feeling on edge; being easily fatigued, difficulty concentrating, irritability, muscle tension, and sleep disturbance. These reactions aren’t going to help you to cope with any specific threat, so they are maladaptive. A good test is to tell a friend about your thoughts – if they can understand, you’re worrying. If they say “that makes no sense,” or if you already know yourself that it makes no sense, that’s probably anxiety. Worry might make us nervous, but anxiety makes us afraid; it feels beyond our control, and it changes our ability to function in life for a substantial period of time – the diagnosis criteria say six months on this, although I’m guessing that in acute situations like this that the six month criteria may not be as relevant.

A panic attack is like an acute onset of anxiety. Instead of having ongoing, low to moderate intensity physical symptoms and a generalized sense of apprehension, the official diagnosis of a panic attack is defined as periods of intense fear or discomfort in which at least four of the following 13 symptoms develop quickly, reaching a peak within 10 minutes. The 13 symptoms are pounding heartbeat, sweating, trembling or shaking, shortness of breath, feeling of choking, chest pain, nausea, feeling dizzy or faint, derealization (which means you have altered perceptions about your self and/or your environment), fear of losing control or going crazy, numbness or tingling, and chills or hot flushes. If you are already anxious then it’s possible that you might experience the symptoms of a panic attack if you’re in a public place where people are coughing and sneezing, especially if that place is your work so you can’t escape from it.

And when we’re experiencing these things one of the things we’re probably also worrying about the impact that our experience is having on our children. Some children aren’t terribly perceptive and might not notice that something is wrong, while others will be sensitive to every shift in your mood. Either way, many of them will notice if your symptoms cause you to snap at them or lash out at them, and of course it’s hard enough to be patient with your children when you’re cooped up with them in a small space, even if you WEREN’T experiencing fear, worrying, anxiety, or maybe even panic attacks yourself, along with all the uncertainty that comes with the constant change in status of what’s open and whether we’re still going to have a job in six weeks and if our city is going to be put on lockdown.

So what can we do? If we think about what helps us to feel less afraid, worried, and anxious, it’s usually not that someone tells us “Don’t worry; that thing you’re thinking about is never going to happen.” These aren’t rational responses in us, so they often don’t respond well to rational logic. It’s far more powerful to reach out to a friend (via phone!) and say “hey, I’m really worried. Can I talk with you about it?” Hopefully if your friend is a good listener they’ll empathize with your feelings and your experience first, and connect with you as a human being to show you they care about you before letting you know whether or not you’re being irrational. And if they’re worried too, hopefully you can do the same thing for them.

When we are ready for some rational information, we can try to understand what is the real risk to ourselves and our family. It can be hard to see countries on lockdown and not think that this virus is coming to get us personally, and while the risk to the community is very large, the personal risk to you as an individual is actually quite small. We just can’t extrapolate the community risk to the personal risk and assume that because the community risk is large, the personal risk is also large. Finding trusted sources of information on issues like this is really important – so look to places like the World Health Organization, or your healthcare provider. You can look at what the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is doing as an advisory, but I will say that in general the American government has not been good at detecting, understanding, and reducing risks associated with all kinds of public health threats over the years, and that they it tends to be more reactionary than proactive so I personally don’t necessarily trust that I’m getting all the information I need in a timely manner from them.

You can do a simple mental risk analysis and ask yourself if you know of anyone who has been infected with the virus, and if you’ve been in contact with them. If you have, then there’s definitely more of a reason to worry than if you haven’t.

And thirdly, what are the steps you can reasonably take to prevent the spread of the virus? These are fairly simple – regular, effective handwashing for 20 seconds, not touching your face, and staying away from someone who might be infected. That’s where the advice to maintain social distance comes into play, and most of what I’m reading says to stay around six feet or two meters from other people when you’re out. There’s probably not a lot of point in wearing a face mask unless it’s a very high quality one and you’re trained in how to use it and you are disciplined in using it – I was at the hospital the other day picking up some medicine for poison oak and I can’t tell you how many people I saw with masks pushed down around their chins. Masks are actually mostly designed to keep nasty stuff in rather than out, so they’re designed for sick people to wear so they don’t get other people sick, not for healthy people to wear to keep other people’s germs out. There are mask shortages as well at the moment so it’s best to save those for people who are on the front lines dealing with real exposure risk.

For those of you who are in these situations where you genuinely do have an elevated risk of exposure, my heart goes out to you. One of the things that seems to happen when we experience symptoms related to anxiety is we feel alone, and like no one else can possibly understand. But since there are thousands of people experiencing this right now, it’s highly likely that there are very many people who do understand how you’re feeling not only about the exposure, but the fact that this is happening in a situation that you can’t get out of. One thing you might try is to create a virtual social community for people who are at increased exposure risk using a phone or video conferencing tool so you don’t actually have to be together in the same room. I’ll put a link in the references to an article about video conferencing providers who are offering free services right now. It could be as simple as you and a colleague sending out an email saying you’ll be on the line at a certain time; if nobody else shows up then you’ll have one other person to talk with, but you might find that many others have been feeling a need for connection like this but didn’t know how to make it happen.

When we’re anxious it’s possible that understanding rationally that our actual risk of exposure is fairly low if we have access to adequate protective equipment, but you also need to address the emotional aspect as well which seeks reassurance and solidarity and empathy, so by going at this from both sides you’ll stand the best chance of making it through this with your sanity intact. In the free workshop we’ll go more deeply into some other tools you can use to create space for yourself when you feel triggered so you can choose a different response, as well as resources to help you have conversations about your fears with your colleagues and your partner that invite them to help you and allow you to offer your support to them. We’ll also talk about a concept from Buddhism called grasping, which is the idea that we tend to get attached to certain outcomes (like keeping our families safe) that in reality we really can’t control. Taking steps to stop grasping – even as we continue to take all necessary precautions like handwashing and social distance – can go an enormously long way toward releasing the grip that anxiety has over us. This is really powerful work, and I’m excited to share it with you in the workshop.

OK, so that was a lot on anxiety specifically related to the virus. For those of us who aren’t feeling especially anxious about our risk of exposure, there’s still the anxiety of knowing that while we love our children, we really do better when we spend a significant chunk of the day apart from them. Even for those of you who have chosen to be stay-at-home-parents, getting out of the house and socializing both with other children and other parents has probably provided a big part of the resources that you use to feel connected and have a purpose beyond that of raising your children, and with that rug pulled out from under you, you too may also feel very isolated. One thing I really want to underscore here is that I don’t think you need a minute-by-minute schedule that tries to replicate the kind of schedule your child has at school, and when we talk about children more in a minute I’ll also make the case that keeping up on school work is a pretty low priority. But I do think that if your children have been in a very structured environment and will probably be going back to a very structured environment in a few weeks, that there’s a strong case for maintaining some semblance of a daily routine.

A routine is different from a schedule in that a schedule says exactly what you’ll be doing and when, while a routine is more of a loose structure that you use to guide you. If neither you nor your child thrives on routine and you’re both welcoming these unstructured days with wide open arms then I’d say to go for it and run with that and enjoy it while you can! But if your children are bouncing off the walls, then you may find that rather than constraining you, a routine actually gives you space to feel as though you know what’s coming and removes the stress of what can seem to be constant decision-making about what to do next.

The free workshop I’m running doesn’t start until March 23^rd, so when you sign up for it I’ll immediately send you a free downloadable sample routine that you can use or modify to guide your activities in the intervening days. It does have times on it like a schedule, but these are just a suggestion. It’s designed on the assumption that there are two parents at home who both need to put in at least half a day of remote work, so it allows for one parent monitoring the children in some activities in the morning, and switching off after a family lunch. If you’re parenting solo then you might want to work with neighbors or friends on some kind of switching off arrangement – yes, we are trying to limit social contact here so I wouldn’t advise rotating a different set of people in and out of the house each day, but if you’re working with just one or two other families who are also trying to limit their outside contact then you’re probably not greatly increasing your exposure risk. So do go ahead and download that sample routine by entering your name and email address at yourparentingmojo.com/coronavirus.

OK; we’ve talked quite a bit about how the coronavirus may be affecting you; now let’s shift gears a bit and talk about how it may be affecting your children.

You may well find that younger children don’t seem to be particularly worried about the virus at all, possibly partly because they don’t really have a full understanding about what it is or how it could affect them. But there are some children who may be quite worried or even anxious, particularly if they are a bit older and have been talking about it with their friends (and maybe their information sources aren’t the most rigorous either), or if they’re younger and they are kind of child who thrives on routine and certainty and having that rug pulled out makes them feel very unstable, and in addition if you are feeling worried or anxious then they may be picking up on this as well.

If your child does seem worried, try asking them what they’re worried about. They may not be able to put it into words but if they can, as with adults, the key thing to do is to EMPATHIZE. We can be quick to rush in with our rationalizations and explanations of how we’re probably not going to get sick and even if we do we’re probably going to be fine, but as you know yourself, this doesn’t necessarily help. So the first step is to empathize. We can do this through physical touch like hugs and kisses, which can be just as powerful as the things we say. We can say “I hear that you’re really worried about that. You must feel very scared.” (And as a side note, I would use this language about “feeling” scared rather than “being” scared, as this helps our children to understand that feelings come and go, rather than being something that’s inherent to us and therefore won’t change.) Then after you’ve sat with them for a while and empathized you can talk about some of the information to help them cognitively understand that the risk is low and they will probably be fine. But do always lead with the empathy. If I think about the times when I’ve been scared or worried about something and I think about what helps me, I firstly want to know that the person I’m telling hears me, and sees me, and accepts me for who I am. Once I’m sure that piece is in place, then I can start to receive information about cognitively reevaluating the risk, but not before.

So this leads us nicely into what we should tell children about the virus, and I think parents who are asking me about this already see that this information needs to be differentiated by the child’s age and maturity, but aren’t sure where to go with it from there. I think one tool that can be really helpful is something I learned in the episode Talk Sex Today where we talked with Sex Educator Saleema Noon, and her advice to parents is that whenever their child comes to them with a question about sex, the parent’s first response should be “Oh, why did you want to know?” Not only does this buy you a few seconds to think, but it also helps you to understand what’s really going on behind the question and whether your child is interested or confused or worried or something else, which allows you to tailor your response. If you still feel as though you just can’t answer the question in that moment, it’s totally fine to say “I’m so glad you asked that question. I need a bit of time to think about the right way to give you the best answer. Can we talk about it [and then name a specific point in the day when you’ll come back to it, like after dinner]?” And then you do need to actually come back and talk about it later; don’t just use it as a tactic to get out of the conversation.

Whenever you do end up talking about it, try to just answer the child’s question fairly narrowly. We parents often think that we would want to have more information rather than less so our children must prefer this too, but our children are often the opposite. So if they want to know why daycare is closed, you could say something like “there’s an illness called Coronavirus that you can catch by being to close to people who already have it, so even though we don’t know anyone who has it, school is closing to make sure children stay safe.” Then if they ask you what Coronavirus is you can give them some more information. You’re always using their questions as the departure point for giving them information, rather than telling them things they haven’t asked about, which should help to assuage their worries without giving them new things to worry about. You may also need to emphasize the importance of handwashing, and teach them to count to 20 while they’re doing it, and explain that we can’t see our friends as much as we’d like to to try to keep everyone healthy.

For older children who do prefer to have more information and who are curious, this could be an ideal topic for what I call a learning exploration, which is where you take the child’s question as a jumping off point for a real exploration of the topic, going as deeply into it as they would like to using resources like online books, which are still available even when libraries are closed, and YouTube videos. If we weren’t so constrained we’d use all kinds of other community-based resources as well, but right now we’re making the best of what we have, and there’s still an enormous amount of information available to children to help them learn about what truly interests them, which is learning that is far more likely to stick with them than doing rote tasks on a worksheet.

So this is leading us to some of the issues that are going to come up related to your children actually being out of school.

One of the first things you might be worried about is whether they are going to fall behind academically. My slightly facetious answer to that is that I don’t think your child is going to fall behind academically because everyone else’s child is out of school too. Even on the tables you may have seen comparing children’s academic performance across countries, no one country is probably going to fall behind because of this time off school because all the other countries are dealing with the virus too.

Listeners who have been with me for a while know that while I am in awe of the many dedicated teachers who are out there supporting our children, I am beyond frustrated at the system that they are forced to work within, in which curriculum is set by bureaucrats in distant conference rooms, and where standardized testing is seen as an adequate assessment of what a person knows, and where learning also has to be standardized to make sure performance on the standardized tests is adequate, so the learning can have very little relevance to the child’s real life and interests and concerns.

So I hope I can encourage you to not worry about academics for right now! If your school has provided an academic packet to work through and that’s a part of your routine that you and your child find helpful, then it certainly won’t hurt them to do it. But what I’m hearing from teachers is that the only reason they’re putting these packets together is because parents are terrified of having no structure to their days and so academic assignments are one way to provide that structure. Instead, I want to see this time from a different perspective. There are always so many projects we wish we could do if we had the time. Things like gardening and washing the car and baking and sewing new curtains for the living room (or clothes for our children’s toys). There never seems to be enough time in the day to read all the books our children want us to read to them, or snuggle with them as much as they want to be snuggled. We feel so much pressure to stay on schedule and go places and do things, and in a way we’re now being called on to drop all of that. We’re being shown what’s close to us at home, and what’s important to us, and being encouraged to spend time with that. I was talking with Dr. Laura Froyen yesterday morning, who has been a guest on the show a couple of times and who co-teaches a unit of my parenting membership with me, and she was saying how she thinks the Coronavirus is going to define the memories of this generation of children. And I think we both agree that yes, it can define their perceptions of risk and health and staying safe. But I’m also reminded of a story I read somewhere a long time ago about a woman whose father had been laid off from work when she was young. She said she somehow knew that money wasn’t as plentiful as it had been previously, but what she really remembered was that her Dad was AROUND, and they would work together to cook dinner, and because he was there he was embedded in her life in a way that he couldn’t have been if he was working a traditional job, and from that perspective she really saw that time as a gift. So to reiterate on that front, if you and your child enjoy traditional academic work and you find the routine of it helpful, please go ahead and do it. But do you really want to spend the next six weeks or feeling like you’re pulling teeth every single day to get your child to spell 10 words that they don’t care about? Or do you want them to look back on this period with such a sense of warmth at all the things you were able to do together and how it enabled you to be more connected?

At this point I can hear you saying “Alright Jen; I’m on board with the no academics but this is real life here. I still have to work. What the heck am I supposed to do?” And I acknowledge that yes, this is not the easiest time. So here are some things that might help. Firstly, the routine that we’ve discussed. If we have been functioning in a routine for a long time, the endless process of making decisions about what to do next can feel very overwhelming, and at that point the easiest thing to do can be to reach for the iPad. That’s why having SOME sense of what’s coming next can keep you moving through the day, which means you don’t slide into screen time without intentionally doing it. Secondly, it can be hard to explain to children why Mama or Daddy gets to spend half the day on THEIR screens while the children are barely allowed to have any time on it at all. If this is an issue in your family then I’d suggest that the working parent goes to another room and closes the door, rather than being somewhere where children can see you on your screen for hours at a time. And the final thing on screens is that I really believe it’s OK to relax a bit around screen time right now if that fits with your philosophy on raising children, because I know some of you are not using screens at all and of course that’s totally fine too if that’s how you prefer to do it.

I’ve done a couple of podcast episodes on screen time, and the broad-brush conclusions I can draw from the studies I looked at from those is that yes, endless hours on screens isn’t great for children’s brains or bodies. While the American Academy of Pediatrics does recommend no screen time for children under 18 months and 1 hour a day of high quality programming for children ages 2-5, there’s really no actual evidence that says one hour a day is some kind of magic number and that if you exceed that number, damage will result to your child. The guideline is more like the scientists saying “based on the available evidence, which is inconclusive, here’s the best attempt we can make at saying what we think most likely won’t harm most children.” And in addition to making sure they’re watching high quality programming parents are supposed to sit with their child while they’re watching their show and discuss it with them. Of course, these guidelines were developed for a world where we aren’t being asked to not be close to other people, which for many people means spending A LOT of time at home. Nobody can say for sure what will or won’t harm an individual child, but I’m fairly confident that a couple of hours of screen time on most days over the coming weeks is not going to result in lasting damage to your child, as long as your child hasn’t been diagnosed with some kind of speech delay for which you have specifically been advised by a professional to minimize their screen usage. But again, the key thing about having a routine is that it keeps you moving through your day without having to make constant decisions that can lead you to using screen time as a default, which may reduce your child’s feeling like they want or need to nag you for more screen time, which benefits your sanity as well.

When I posted a call for questions on this topic in the free Your Parenting Mojo Facebook group, quite a lot of people responded with questions around socialization – they’re worried about loneliness, particularly among extroverted children, and that the loss of interaction with their peers is going to cause their child some kind of harm. They’re wondering what to do instead of the playdates that might be a traditional fallback in more normal situations when school is closed. So let’s take a look at those concerns. We are an inherently social species, and it’s definitely possible that we’re ALL going to feel a bit lonely at some point in the next few weeks, with the possible exception of highly introverted me, and perhaps my daughter Carys as well who would be quite happy spending here to eternity in the house wearing pajamas sorting out her LEGOs by type into plastic containers. But I wouldn’t necessarily be particularly worried about the impacts on a child of spending a few weeks apart from their peers. Yes, this is a sensitive time in a child’s development, and if it was a single child being absent from a tightly integrated group for a long period then they might find it hard to reintegrate with the group once they returned. But all of the child’s peers are in the same boat too, so nobody is getting left behind. Yes, we know that prolonged social isolation over a period of time is very damaging to the brain, but your child is safe in a loving environment with you, not totally isolated. As far as I’m aware there’s no specific research on the effects of a short-term period of isolation from peers in young children, but everything I can gather from the thousands of academic papers I’ve read on child development tells me that while they might struggle for a few days to get back into the routine of daycare or school, in the long-term this is not going to be something that causes harm as long as they are in a loving environment at home.

We also don’t need to see this as a period of total isolation from peers, if we get creative in terms of how we think about interaction, and we’re fortunate that modern technology is going to be a huge help to us in a way that it couldn’t have been even a decade ago. The teachers at Carys’ preschool are going to be at the school cleaning over the next week, and at a set time each morning they’re going to start a video call so all the children who want to can call in and see the teachers and read a story and have their normal ‘circle time’ together. After that first week when the teachers won’t be available any more, this could still be a great part of the daily routine to keep up, maybe with a different parent hosting it each day so all the other parents get to have half an hour of down-time while that’s going on. And even the American Academy of Pediatrics doesn’t count screen time where the child is interacting with other people through the screen, so you aren’t counting against your allowance on that either.

Screen time can be an important source of social relationships for YOU too, as long as you don’t look up two hours after you idly pick up your phone and wonder why you’re still scrolling Facebook, with no memory of what you’ve been looking at. If you’re in supportive parenting groups sharing ideas and empathizing and gathering strength for the next day, then I’d absolutely consider that to be self-care work. Also take time to check in with friends via phone or video chat, and keep up those connections as well. You could even set their kids and your kids up with a computer in your living rooms to video chat with each other while you retreat to a bedroom and have your own conversation at the same time.

And I don’t think we have to completely rule out in-person interactions either, or going outside for that matter. The key is to try to keep some distance between people, so riding bikes would be a fantastic activity that allow you to get outside, move around, and see people without getting close enough to pose a risk. Some parents are asking me about playgrounds, and I think this is a bit more of a grey zone. Here’s what I know about it. Flu viruses can remain active on hard surfaces for 2-3 days if they are undisturbed. We also know that the sun is actually a potent virucide, which means it kills viruses. I found a really helpful paper that looks at the amount of time it takes at different latitudes for the sun to kill the flu virus on surfaces outside. Based on this data, if you’re living in San Francisco or at any latitude south of San Francisco right now as we approach the Spring equinox, the sun will probably kill around 90% of any flu virus present on hard surfaces in one day, assuming it’s a fully sunny day, and the surface has to be exposed to the sun and not underneath a play structure or something. The paper only provides data for the virucidal potential at the solstices and equinoxes, but my extrapolation is that you’d have to wait until sometime in late April before you hit that 90% threshold in Seattle, and later than that at latitudes in Canada and northern Europe. Those of you in the Southern Hemisphere can check the latitudes of those cities against your own latitude the other direction and figure it out from there. So what I’m taking from this is that if the playground hasn’t been used very much, and it’s sunny outside, and if you’re feeling extra cautious you could take some disinfectant with you and give some things a wipe down, and yours is the only family there, then playgrounds are not totally off-limits. This might be especially useful for parents of children younger than about two, who tend not to play directly together anyway and may be quite content to be six feet apart from each other while the parents get some much needed connection time. But of course if you see a playground with lots of children running around then you’re not going to be able to keep an adequate space between people so that’s probably a no-go situation.

There was also a piece in the Atlantic recently which interviewed several experts on social distancing, and the situations the experts were asked about like dating and going to bars were more applicable to adults than children, but the one that came closest to being relevant to playdate situations was whether it’s OK to have a small group of friends over at your house for a dinner party or board game night. Dr. Crystal Watson, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, said she thought that small gatherings are probably OK as long as nobody has respiratory symptoms. Dr. Albert Ko, chair of the epidemiology department at the Yale School of Public Health didn’t come outright and say a game night was a bad idea, as long as you can sit somewhat far apart, but there is risk of transmission through game pieces or doorknobs or bathroom faucets that lots of people touch. And Dr. Carolyn Cannuscio, the Director of Research at the Center for Public Health Initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania was the most conservative of the three, saying that all social engagements should be limited, with the exception that if two households are in strict agreement that they are going to reduce all outside contact and only socialize together to support one another, then the social and mental health advantages could outweigh the small increase in virus transmission risk. So if you absolutely need – or your child needs – to have contact with someone outside of your immediate family but you still want to be conservative, I would try to pick someone that your child could potentially spend a lot of time with in the coming weeks and not get bored, and agree with that family that you are each other’s support system, and you will each minimize outside engagement beyond your families. And the more successful you are at reducing that outside engagement I think the more lax you can be about maintaining social distance between the members of those families, in just the same way that we aren’t maintaining distance between people living in the same household as long as none of them are sick.

And before we leave outdoor time totally behind, I would also like to say that for many of us this is a great time to be outside! If you’re somewhere snowy, put on some warm clothes and go out and play. If it’s raining like it is here in the California Bay Area, put on some waders and explore a creek, or turn over some logs and look for salamanders. If it’s sunny, go for a hike. Try geocaching, which is like treasure hunting using an app on your phone – Carys absolutely LOVES to see what treasures the next cache will hold. Just watch out for poison oak, because I’m pretty sure that’s where I got mine. I’ll put a link to the geocaching website in the references. Animal tracking is also a lot of fun – there are books and apps that provide a lot of information, and then you head out somewhere where there aren’t a lot of people around (which should be easier, now everyone is indoors!) and look for tracks in mud or sand or snow. You can tell a lot about what kind of animal it was and what it was doing just by studying its tracks. Start a nature journal – keep track of the weather and the changes in plants that are coming as Spring sets in; I’ll put a link in the references to some great videos on basic drawing techniques that could actually have you doing drawings of flowers and things you find in nature that you might have thought were completely beyond your capability, and you can bring art supplies for the kids too and let them draw or paint whatever they want.

You can also just have unstructured time – lie on the grass and look at the leaves on the trees moving overhead, or the clouds. Roll in the grass. Make snow or sand angels. If we can keep the maximum number of people healthy by doing these things in our small family units, and also create the kinds of memories that our children will look back on as defining moments in their lives, then I think we’ll have weathered this challenge about as well as we can ourselves.

And before we leave this episode behind, I also want to encourage you if you relatively unimpacted by the effects of the virus right now, that you offer help to others who might be in a less fortunate situation. You might have elderly neighbors who are feeling extremely isolated because they don’t know how to use videoconferencing software. If they have underlying medical conditions they might not have been able to leave the house to get food. The homeless people sitting outside the grocery store probably don’t have access to water, so if you have a spare bottle of hand sanitizer you might consider giving it away and washing your own hands with soap and water instead. Call your local food pantry and see what they need.

Listener Brian Stout, who cointerviewed Dr. Carol Gilligan with me on the topic of patriarchy and whose follow-up interview was supposed to be published today instead of this episode, wrote a blog post recently gathering some thinking on how community is going to be key to surviving through the virus’ rampage and thriving after it. Brian quotes British journalist Dr. Nafeez Ahmed’s recent article on Medium, in which he said “The coronavirus will strain social, economic and political systems to the brink… Getting through coronavirus will be an exercise not just in building societal resilience, but relearning the values of cooperation, compassion, generosity and kindness, and building systems which institutionalize these values.” Brian goes on to quote Dr Frank Snowdon, professor emeritus of history and the history of medicine at Yale in an interview in the New Yorker, who has written:Epidemic diseases are not random events that afflict societies capriciously and without warning. On the contrary, every society produces its own specific vulnerabilities. To study them is to understand that society’s structure, its standard of living, and its political priorities.” And in the New Yorker interview, he said:“Epidemics are a category of disease that seem to hold up the mirror to human beings as to who we really are… They show the moral relationships that we have toward each other as people. There has to be an absolutely fundamental change in our mind-set. We have to think that we have to work together as a human species to be organized to care for one another, to realize that the health of the most vulnerable people among us is a determining factor for the health of all of us, and, if we aren’t prepared to do that, we’ll never, ever be prepared to confront these devastating challenges to our humanity.” Brian concludes: “We face a moment of reckoning: this is who we are. Is this who we want to be?” Deciding this as a society requires that we decide this for ourselves. Who do youwant to be in this society? And what will you do as a result of that decision?

Another thing you could do with your kids at home is to learn how to cook some new vegetarian dishes, because long after the craziness of Coronavirus is just a distant memory, climate change will still be here and with us. In some ways our reaction to Coronavirus makes me sad, because we are taking all these precautionary measures to make sure WE don’t get sick. The virus doesn’t discriminate who it affects, so we enact drastic measures to stop it. But the effects of climate change ARE discriminatory – we in the West haven’t been willing to do much about it because it doesn’t affect us personally in the same way the virus does. When it gets hot we can just turn on the air conditioning. When sea levels rise we can just pay to have the water pumped out of our streets during king tides, and call our insurance company when our house is burned down by wildfire. We don’t feel the pain of the effects of climate change in the same way that we do the effects of Coronavirus. But there are billions of people around the world who ARE feeling those effects right now; whose houses and entire towns are already permanently flooded but they keep living there because they have nowhere else to go. Because we see those people as different from us, we just think “well, why should I do anything differently?” So my ultimate hope is that each and every one of us will take this opportunity to see how we personally fit into this huge global system, and what we want our role to be in that, and what needs to change for each of us to make a positive contribution to that and to take personal steps and enact policies to make that vision happen.

I do hope this episode has left you with a sense of calm as well as optimism. We can get through this. We WILL get through this. But if you need a little extra help getting through this, go over to yourparentingmojo.com/coronavirus, enter your name and email address and I’ll send that sample daily routine right over to you, and together we’ll walk through the FREE one-week workshop starting on March 23^rdto bring down your stress level, keep the kids busy, and support them in learning things they’re really interested in to make the most of this time. You’ll get daily emails and live videos where you can interact with me (or you can watch them later if you can’t make a set time), and so much support and encouragement from all the other parents in the same boat. I’m sending warm, remote hugs to each and every one of you from a distance of much greater than six feet, and I hope I get to meet you in the workshop as well.

References

Ahmed, N. (2020, March 2). Coronavirus, synchronous failure and the global phase-shift. Medium. Retrieved from: https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/coronavirus-synchronous-failure-and-the-global-phase-shift-3f00d4552940

American Academy of Pediatrics (2016, October 21). American Academy of Pediatrics announces new recommendations for children’s media use. Author. Retrieved from: https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/American-Academy-of-Pediatrics-Announces-New-Recommendations-for-Childrens-Media-Use.aspx

Chotiner, I. (2020, March 3). How pandemics change history. New Yorker. Retrieved from: https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-pandemics-change-history

National Center for Biotechnology Information (n.d.). Table 3.15: DSM-IV to DSM5 Generalized Anxiety Disorder Comparison. Author. Retrieved from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519704/table/ch3.t15/

National Center for Biotechnology Information (n.d.) Table 3.10: Panic Disorder and Agoraphobia Criteria Changes from DSM-IV to DSM-5. Retrieved from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519704/table/ch3.t10/

Sagripanti, J-L., & Lytle, C.D. (2007). Inactivation of influenza virus by solar radiation. Photochemistry and Photobiology 83, 1278-1282.

Stout, B. (2020, March 11). Coronavirus…and the choice we now face. Author. Retrieved from: https://citizenstout.substack.com/

Tiffany, K. (2020, March 12). The dos and don’ts of ‘Social Distancing.’ The Atlantic. Retrieved from: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-what-does-social-distancing-mean/607927/

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107: The impact of consumerism on children

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 21:00:00 +0000

A few weeks ago we talked with Dr. Brad Klontz about the ‘money scripts’ that we pass on to our children – perhaps unintentionally – if we fail to examine these and make conscious decisions about the messages we want to convey about money to our children.

Today we continue our series on the intersection of parenting and money with a conversation with Dr. Allison Pugh, whose doctoral dissertation (and subsequent book, Longing and Belonging: Parents, Children, and Consumer Culture) remain seminal works in this field even a decade after their publication.

In this interview, we take the position that advertising to children is happening – so what do we do with that? How do children make meaning out of the messages sent to them through our consumerist culture? How do parents attempt to resist the effects of this culture, and how successful are they?

In our next episode in this series we’ll dig more deeply into the effects of advertising itself on children’s brains, so stay tuned for that!

Book mentioned in the episode

Longing and Belonging: Parents, Children, and Consumer Culture (Affiliate link).

Other episodes on this series

This episode is the second in a series on the intersection of parenting and money. You can find other episodes in this series:

038: The Opposite of Spoiled

105: How to pass on mental wealth to your child

112: How to Set up a Play Room

115: Reducing the Impact of Advertising to Children

118: Are You Raising Materialistic Kids?

Jump to highlights

01:31 Introduction to Dr. Allison Pugh, sociologist and author of Longing and Belonging

03:28 Why nine in ten Americans think children want too many material things

10:24 The real theme in kids’ consumer world: belonging, not status

17:21 The line between healthy mirroring and raising a sense of entitlement

21:25 Comparing Dr. Lareau’s research to newer findings on low-income parenting

30:10 Symbolic deprivation vs. symbolic indulgence: how affluent and low-income parents talk about spending differently

40:37 Buying things to soothe our own childhood memories of not fitting in

46:45 What noblesse oblige means, and how wealthy families pass it on (or don’t)

53:35 Talking through allowances, and whether they let parents off the hook

55:59 Windfall child-rearing: how unpredictable income, not just low income, makes poverty harder

References

Auty, S., & Lewis, C. (2004). Exploring children’s choice: The reminder effect of product placement. Psychology & Marketing 21(9), 699-716.

Buijzen, M. (2008). Associations between children’s television advertising exposure and their food consumption patterns: A household diary-survey study. Appetite 50, 231-239.

Buijzen, M., & Valkenburg, P.M. (2003). The unintended effects of television advertising: A parent-child study. Communication Research 30(5), 483-503.

Buijzen, M., & Valkenburg, P.M. (2003). The effects of television advertising on materialism, parent-child conflict, and unhappiness: A review of research. Applied Developmental Psychology 24, 437-456.

Coffey, T., Siegel, D., & Livingston, G. (2006). Marketing to the new super consumer: Mom & kid. Ithaca, NY: Paramount Marketing Publishing.

Cook, C. (2004). The commodification of childhood: The children’s clothing industry and the rise of the child consumer. Durham, NC: Duke University Press.

Cross, G (2010). Valves of adult desire. In D. Buckingham & V. Tingstad (Eds.), Childhood and Consumer Culture (p.17-30). Basingstoke, U.K.: Palgrave Macmillan.

Elliott, S., Powell, R., & Brenton, J. (2015). Being a good mom: Low-income, Black single mothers negotiate intensive mothering. Journal of Family Issues 36(3), 351-370.

Mayo, E., & Nairn, A. (2009). Consumer kids: How big business is grooming our children for profit. London, U.K.: Constable & Robinson.

Opree, S.J., Buijzen, M., van Reijmersdal, E.A., & Valkenburg, P.M. (2014). Children’s advertising exposure, advertised product desire, and materialism: A longitudinal study. Communication Research 41(5), 717-735.

Nairn, A., Bottomley, P., & Ormrod, J. (2010). “Those who have less want more. But does it make them feel bad?”: Deprivation, materialism and self-esteem in childhood. In D. Buckingham & V. Tingstad (Eds.), Childhood and Consumer Culture (p.194-208). Basingstoke, U.K.: Palgrave Macmillan.

Nairn, A., & Fine. A. (2004). Who’s messing with my mind? The implications of dual-process models for the ethics of advertising to children. International Journal of Advertising 27(3), 447-470.

Pugh, A.J. (2009). Longing and belonging: Parents, children, and consumer culture. Berkeley, CA: University of California Press

Pugh, A.J. (2004). Windfall child rearing: Low-income care and consumption. Journal of Consumer Culture 42(2), 229-249.

Pugh, A. (2002, May). From “compensation” to “childhood wonder”: Why parents buy. Working Paper No. 39. Berkeley, CA: Center for Working Families.

Pugh, A. (2001). When is a doll more than a doll?: Selling toys as reassurance for maternal and class anxiety. Berkeley, CA: Center for Working Families.

Rozendaal, E., Lapierre, M.A., Van Reijmersdal, E.A., & Buijzen, M. (2011). Reconsidering advertising literacy as a defense against advertising effects. Media Psychology 14, 333-354.

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104: How to help a child to overcome anxiety

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 21:00:00 +0000

Listeners have been asking me for an episode on supporting anxious children for a loooooong time, but I was really struggling to find anyone who didn’t take a behaviorist-based approach (where behaviors are reinforced using the parent’s attention (or stickers) or the withdrawal of the parent’s attention or other ‘privileges.’).

Long-time listeners will see that these approaches don’t really fit with how we usually view behavior on the show, which is an expression of a need – if you just focus on extinguishing ‘undesirable’ behavior, you haven’t really done anything about the child’s need and – even worse – you’ve sent a message to the child that they can’t express their true feelings and needs to you.

Listener Jamie sent me a link a book called Beyond Behaviors written by today’s guest, Dr. Mona Delahooke, and I immediately knew that Dr. Delahooke was the right person to guide us through this. Listener Jamie comes onto the show for the first time as well to co-interview Dr. Delahooke so we can really deeply understand our children’s feelings and support them in meeting their true needs – and overcome their anxiety as well.

Dr. Mona Delahooke’s Books

Beyond Behaviors: Using Brain Science and Compassion to Understand and Solve Children’s Behavioral Challenges

Beyond Behaviors Flip Chart: A Psychoeducational Tool to Help Therapists & Teachers Understand and Support Children with Behavioral Changes (Affiliate links).

Jump to highlights

01:28 Introduction to Dr. Mona Delahooke, author of Beyond Behaviors

02:45 Introduction to listener Jamie, joining as co-interviewer

05:13 How most psychologists define anxiety, and the shift away from strict DSM labels

08:04 Why cognitive behavioral therapy and medication only help about a third to half of children

09:39 A look at a Yale study on parent-led anxiety treatment, and what it may have missed

23:33 Does responding to a child’s “non-preferred” behavior just reinforce it?

27:09 Why we give autism a “pass” but hold other kids to a stricter standard

30:22 Why social engagement, not stickers or candy, is the most powerful reinforcer

33:52 Two different ways to reassure a frightened child, and why tone of voice matters more than words

36:57 What co-regulation actually means, and why pulling it away too soon backfires

40:10 Building hardiness in children by tending to our own emotional regulation first

44:33 Supporting a child whose anxiety seems built into their temperament

49:29 Book recommendations for helping children understand their bodies and emotions

References

Beesdo, K., Knappe, S., & Pine, D.S. (2009). Anxiety and anxiety disorders in children and adolescents: Developmental issues and implications for DSM-V. Psychiatric Clinics of North America 32, 483-524.

Delahooke, M. (2019). Beyond Behaviors: Using brain science and compassion to understand and solve children’s behavioral challenges. Eau Claire, WI: PESI.

Lebowitz, E.R., Marin, C., Martino, A., Shimshoni, Y., & Silverman, W.K. (2019). Parent-based treatment as efficacious as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for childhood anxiety: A randomized noninferiority study of supportive parenting for anxious childhood emotions. Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry.

Porges, S.W. (2007). The polyvagal perspective. Biological Psychology 74(2), 116-143.

Wood, J.J. (2006). Parental intrusiveness and children’s separation anxiety in a clinical sample. Child Psychiatry & Human Development 37, 73-87.

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085: White privilege in schools

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 21:00:00 +0000

This episode is part of a series on understanding the intersection of race, privilege, and parenting. Click here to view all the items in this series.

Public schools are open to all children, no matter what their race, so where’s the privilege in schools?

In this episode we’ll learn more about how even (and perhaps especially) well-meaning liberal White parents perpetuate inequalities in schools which disadvantage children from non-dominant cultures.

We’ll cover the way that purportedly ‘scientific’ standardized tests perpetuate inequality, ‘second generation segregation’ (which is still alive and well in schools), how White parents who want the best for their children end up disadvantaging others – and what are some steps we can take to move forward.

Dr. Allison Roda’s book

Inequality in gifted and talented programs: Parental choices about status, school opportunity, and second-generation segregation – Affiliate link

Jump to highlights

01:22 Introduction to this episode’s topic: White privilege in the school system

03:37 Introduction to Dr. Allison Roda, author of Inequality in Gifted and Talented Programs

09:36 Why national surveys show parents want diverse schools, but schools remain hypersegregated

11:50 Defining what a truly diverse and integrated school means

15:19 Whether gifted and talented placement tests actually measure giftedness

20:02 “Second generation segregation”: how gifted programs resegregate schools from the inside

22:06 Weighing the research: do diverse schools always mean better outcomes?

26:22 Defining “opportunity hoarding” and how school choice policies enable it

32:34 The uncomfortable tension for liberal parents caught between integration ideals and individual advantage

38:45 How school leaders work around legal limits on using race in admissions

41:05 What individual parents can do, starting with naming their own privilege

46:40 Closing thought: treating other people’s children as equally worthy of opportunity

References

Antonio, A., Chang, M.J., Hakuta, K., Kenny, D.A., Levin, S., & Milem, J.F. (2004). Effects of racial diversity on complex thinking in college students. Psychological Science 15(8), 507-510. DOI 10.1111/j.0956-7976.2004.00710.x

Bifulco, R., Cobb, C., & Bel, C. (2009). Can interdistrict choice boost student achievement? The case of Connecticut’s interdistrict magnet school program. Educational Evaluation and Policy Analysis 31(4), 323-345.

Brantlinger, E., Majd-Jabbari, M., & Guskin, S.L. (1996). Self-interest and liberal educational discourse: How ideology works for middle-class mothers. American Educational Research Journal 33(3), 571-597.

Conway-Turner, J. (2016). Does diversity matter? The impact of school racial composition on the academic achievement of elementary school students in an ethnically diverse low-income sample (Doctoral dissertation). Retrieved from http://mars.gmu.edu/jspui/bitstream/handle/1920/10405/ConwayTurner_gmu_0883E_11159.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Gamoran, A., Barfels, S., & Collares, A.C. (2016). Does racial isolation in school lead to long-term disadvantages? Labor market consequences of high school racial composition. American Journal of Sociology 121(4), 1116-1167.

Holme, J.J. (2002). Buying homes, buying schools: School choice and the social construction of school quality. Harvard Educational Review 72(2), 177-205.

Knoester, M., & Au, W. (2014). Standardized testing and school segregation: Like tinder for fire? Race Ethnicity and Education 20(1), 1-14.

Mickelson, R.A. (2001). Subverting Swann: First- and second-generation segregation in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg schools. American Educational Research Journal 38(2), 215-252

National Center for Education Statistics (2017) National Assessment of Educational Progress (Reading and Math results). Retrieved from https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/

Nava, J. (2017, August 28). Do parents value school diversity? The PDK poll offers insights. Learning First Alliance. Retrieved from https://learningfirst.org/blog/parents-attitudes-toward-school-diversity

Posey-Maddox, L. (2014). When middle-class parents choose urban schools: Class, race, and the challenge of equity in public education. Chicago, IL: The University of Chicago Press.

Roda, A. (2018). School choice and the politics of parenthood: Exploring parent mobilization as a catalyst for the common good. Peabody Journal of Education 1-20.

Roda, A. (2017). Parenting in the age of high-stakes testing: Gifted and talented admissions and the meaning of parenthood. Teachers College Record 119, 1-53.

Roda, A. (2015). Inequality in gifted and talented programs: Parental choices about status, school opportunity, and second-generation segregation. New York, NY: Palgrave Macmillan.

Roda, A., & Wells, A.S. (2013). School choice policies and racial segregation: Where White parents’ good intentions and privilege collide. American Journal of Education 119)2), 261-293.

Sattin-Bajaj, C., & Roda, A. (2018). Opportunity hoarding in school choice contexts: The role of policy design in promoting middle-class parents’ exclusionary behaviors. Educational Policy 1-44.

Smith, J.A. (2015, February 2). As parents get more choice, S.F. schools resegregate. San Francisco Public Press. Retrieved from https://sfpublicpress.org/news/2015-02/as-parents-get-more-choice-sf-schools-resegregate

Trachtenberg, P., Roda, A., & Coughlan, R. (2016, December 12). Remedying school segregation: How New Jersey’s Morris School District chose to make diversity work. The Century Foundation. Retrieved from https://tcf.org/content/report/remedying-school-segregation/

Watson, J. (2018, November 26). Cindy Hyde-Smith’s experience is not an outlier: School segregation in America is still a troubling fact today. NBC News. Retrieved from https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/cindy-hyde-smith-s-experience-not-outlier-school-segregation-america-n940361

Wells, A.S., Fox, L., & Cordodva-Cobo, D. (2016, February 9). How racially diverse schools and classrooms can benefit all students. The Century Foundation. Retrieved from http://apps.tcf.org/how-racially-diverse-schools-and-classrooms-can-benefit-all-students

Williams, J. (2016, April 6). Why some Black leaders aren’t down with opting out of standardized testing. Take Part. Retrieved from http://www.takepart.com/article/2016/04/06/black-leaders-not-down-with-opt-out-standardized-testing

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083: White privilege in parenting: What it is & what to do about it

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 21:00:00 +0000

This episode is part of a series on understanding the intersection of race, privilege, and parenting. Click here to view all the items in this series.

This episode launches a series of conversations on the intersection of race and parenting. I spent a month wading around in the psychological literature on this topic and deciding how best to approach it, and eventually decided to split it into four topics.

Today we’ll dig into White privilege in parenting through a conversation with Dr. Margaret Hagerman on her book White kids: Growing up with privilege in a racially divided America.

For those of us who are White, White privilege can be an incredibly uncomfortable to discuss. After all, we didn’t ask for this privilege – we were just born into a system where we have it. But the reality is that we do have it, and many of the actions we take on a daily basis mean that we don’t just benefit from it but we actively take steps to perpetuate that advantage. So in this episode we’ll learn how we can recognize that privilege in our lives and we’ll start to learn about some steps we can take to address it.

In upcoming episodes we’ll look at White privilege in schools, parents’ responsibility to work on dismantling systems of racial privilege, how to talk with children about race, and what children learn about race in school (and what you can do to supplement this).

I’m really excited to begin this conversation, but at the same time I want to acknowledge that while these episodes are based on a close reading of the literature, this is a massive subject and I’m not the expert here – I’m learning along with you. If you think I’ve missed the mark, do let me know either in the comments or via the Contact page. And if you’d like to participate in a series of conversations on this topic with other interested parents, do join us in the free Your Parenting Mojo Facebook group – just search for #Whiteprivilege to find the thread.

You might also be interested to listen back to earlier related episodes:

Wait, is my toddler racist? (Recorded back when I was still learning to distinguish between prejudice and racism!)

How children form social groups, which is critical to understanding how they develop prejudices in the first place.

Jump to highlights

01:34 Introduction to this new series on race and parenting, and why this episode came about

03:04 Introduction to Dr. Margaret Hagerman, author of White Kids

06:43 Defining race as a social and political construct

08:47 Is it racist to discuss race? Dr. Hagerman’s answer

11:43 Comparing the two communities: a diverse city area versus an almost entirely White suburb

19:08 Why White parents can opt out of talking about race while Black parents can’t opt out of preparing their kids for it

29:14 Opportunity hoarding: even self-identified anti-racist parents securing exclusive extracurriculars for their kids

32:29 Structural inequality in schools: hall passes, discipline, and the school-to-prison pipeline

38:15 Racial disparities in medical treatment, including a study on pain medication for Black children with appendicitis

40:21 Housing inequality: redlining, restrictive covenants, and who got home loans after the New Deal

44:41 What parents can do: caring about other children, not just your own

50:05 Sponsoring a scholarship spot, modeling relationships, and the ideological side of raising anti-racist kids

References

Addo, F.R., Houle, J.N., & Simon, D. (2016). Young, Black, and (still) in the red: Parental wealth, race, and student loan debt. Race and Social Problems 8(1), 64-76.Birkhead, T.R. (2017, April 3). The racialization of juvenile justice and the role of the defense attorney. Boston College Law Review 58(2), 379-461.

Bonilla-Silva, E. (2018). Racism without racists: Color-blind racism and the persistence of racial inequality in America (5th Ed.). Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield.

DiAngelo, R. (2011). White fragility. International Journal of Critical Pedagogy 3(3), 54-70. Full article available at https://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/viewFile/249/116

Goyal, M.K., Kupperman, N., & Cleary, S.D. (2015). Racial disparities in pain management of children with appendicitis in emergency departments. JAMA Pediatrics 169(11), 996-1002.

Marrast, L., Himmelstein, D.U., & Woolhandler, D. (2016). Racial and ethnic disparities in mental health care for children and young adults: A national study. International Journal of Health Studies 46(4), 810-824.

National Conference of State Legislators (2017, August 1). Disproportionality and disparity in child welfare. Author. Retrieved from http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/disproportionality-and-disparity-in-child-welfare.aspx

Nicholson-Crotty, S., Birchmeier, Z., & Valentine, D. (2009). Exploring the impact of school discipline on racial disproportion in the juvenile justice system. Social Science Quarterly 90(4), 1003-1018.

Nodjimbadem, K. (2017, May 30). The racial segregation of American cities was anything but accidental: A housing policy expert explains how federal government policies created the suburbs and the inner city. Smithsonian Magazine. Retrieved from https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-federal-government-intentionally-racially-segregated-american-cities-180963494/

Poehlmann, J., Dallaire, D., Loper, A.B., & Shear, L.D. (2010). Children’s contact with their incarcerated parents: Research findings and recommendations. American Psychologist 65(6), 575-598.

Scheindlin, S.A. (2018, May 31). Trump’s hard-right judges will do lasting damage to America (Opinion). The Guardian. Retrieved from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/30/trump-judge-appointments-roe-v-wade-courts

Sibka, R.J., Horner, R.H., Chung, C-G., Rausch, M.K., May, S.L., & Tobin, T. (2011). Race is not neutral: A national investigation of African American and Latino disproportionality in school discipline. School Psychology Review 40(1), 85-107.

Wanless, S.B., & Crawford, P.A. (2016). Reading your way to a culturally responsive classroom. National Association for the Education of Young Children. Retrieved from https://www.naeyc.org/resources/pubs/yc/may2016/culturally-responsive-classroom

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081: How can I decide which daycare/preschool is right for my child?

Jen Lumanlan — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 01:58:00 +0000

I regularly receive questions from listeners asking me whether they should put their child in daycare or preschool and my response has typically been that there isn’t a lot of research on the benefits and drawbacks for middle class children on whether or not the child goes to daycare/preschool, and that is still true. I’ve done research on my listeners and while parents of all types listen to the show, the majority of you are fortunate enough to not be highly economically challenged.

So in this episode we’ll talk about why preschool is considered to be such a good thing for children of lower-income families, and also what research is available on the effects – both positive and negative – of daycare and preschool on children of middle- and upper-income families.

You’ll also hear me mention in the show that it’s really, really difficult even for researchers to accurately measure the quality of a daycare/preschool setting because you can’t just get data on child:teacher ratios and teacher qualifications to do this. You have to actually visit the setting and understand the experience of the children to do this – but what do you look for? And what questions do you ask? In the show I mention a list of questions you can ask the staff and things you can look out for that Evelyn Nichols, M.Ed of Mighty Bambinis and I put together – Click here to download.

Let me know (in the comments below) if you have follow-up questions as you think through this decision for your family!

References
Bettinger, E., Haegeland, T., & Rege, M. (2013). Home with Mom: The effects of stay-at-home parents on children’s long-run educational outcomes. CESifo Working Paper No. 4274. Center for Economic Studies and IFO Institute (CESifo), Munich. Retrieved from http://hdl.handle.net/10419/77681

Blanden, J., Hansen, K., & McNally, S. (2017). Quality in early years settings and children’s school achievement. CEP Discussion Paper #1468. Centre for Economic Performance.

Blau, F.D., & Grossberg, A.J. (1990). Maternal labor supply and children’s cognitive development. Working Paper No. 3536. NBER Working Paper Series, National Bureau of Economic Research. Retrieved from https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/6708064.pdf

Carneiro, P., Loken, K.V., & Salvanes, K.G. (2010, December). A flying start? Long term consequences of maternal investments in children during their first year of life. Discussion paper series // Forschungsinstitut zur Zukunft der Arbeit, No. 5362. Retrieved from https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b580/c5b64c2ac7f7706963516265353f4c5fc164.pdf

Chan, M.K., & Liu, K. (2015). Life cycle and intergenerational effects of child care reforms. Discussion Paper No. 9377. Institute for the Study of Labor, Bonn, Germany (Forschungsinstitut zur Zukunft der Arbeit). Retrieved from http://ftp.iza.org/dp9377.pdf

Felfe, C., & Lalive, R. (2012). Early child care and child development: For whom it works and why. Discussion Paper No. 7100. Institute for the Study of Labor, Bonn, Germany (Forschungsinstitut zur Zukunft der Arbeit). Retrieved from http://hdl.handle.net/10419/69379

Felfe, C., Nollenberger, N., & Rodriguez-Planas, N. (2014). Can’t buy mommy’s love? Universal childcare and children’s long-term cognitive development. Journal of Population Economics 28(2), 393-422.

Felfe, C., Zierow, L., & Maximillians, L. (2015). From dawn till dusk: Implications of full day care for children’s development. Retrieved from http://conference.iza.org/conference_files/SUMS_2015/zierow_l21761.pdf

Fort, M., Ichino, A., & Zanella, G. (2016). Cognitive and non-cognitive costs of daycare 0-2 for girls. IZA Discussion Paper No. 9756, Institute for the Study of Labor (IZA), Bonn, Germany. Retrieved from http://hdl.handle.net/10419/141515

Haeck, C., Lefebvre, P., & Merrigan, P. (2013). Canadian evidence on ten years of universal preschool policies: The good and the bad. Working Paper 13-34. Centre Interuniversitaire sur le Risque, Les Politiques Economiques et l’Emploi. Retrieved from http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.687.2067&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Havnes, T., & Mogstad, M. (2015). Is universal child care leveling the playing field? Journal of Public Economics 127, 100-114.

Hsin, A., & Felfe, C. (2014). Children’s time with parents, and child development. Demography 51, 1867-1894.

Kottelenberg, M.J., & Leherer, S.F. (2013). Do the perils of universal child care depend on the child’s age? CESifo Economic Studies 60(2), 338-365. Retrieved from https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Lehrer/publication/275380692_Do_the_Perils_of_Universal_Childcare_Depend_on_the_Child%27s_Age/links/586d9c8108ae8fce491b5e94/Do-the-Perils-of-Universal-Childcare-Depend-on-the-Childs-Age.pdf

Kuehnle, D., & Oberfichtner, M. (2017). Does early child care attendance influence children’s cognitive and non-cognitive skill development? Working Paper No. 100. Institute for the Study of Labor, Bonn, Germany (Forschungsinstitut zur Zukunft der Arbeit). Retrieved from http://hdl.handle.net/10419/156403

Kunn-Nelen, A., de Grip, A., & Fouarge, D. (2014). The relation between maternal work hours and the cognitive development of young school-aged children. De Economist 163, 203-232.

Miller, C.C. (2018, December 25). The relentlessness of modern parenting. The New York Times. Retrieved from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/25/upshot/the-relentlessness-of-modern-parenting.html

McGinn, K.L., Castro, M.R., & Lingo, E.L. (2018). Learning from Mum: Cross-national evidence linking maternal employment and adult children’s outcomes. Work, Employment & Society (Online first). DOI 10.1177/0950017018760167

Ruhm, C.J. (2004). Parental employment and child cognitive development. The Journal of Human Resources 39(1), 155-192.

Waldfogel, J., Han, W-J., & Brooks-Gunn, J. (2002). The effects of early maternal employment on child cognitive development. Demography 39(2), 369-392.

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077: Are forest schools any better for children than regular schools?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 21:00:00 +0000

If you’ve been following the show for a while now, you’ll know that my daughter and I LOVE to spend time outside. I looked at the research on the benefits of outdoor play for young children, and in my interview with Dr. Scott Sampson on his book How to Raise a Wild Child, so I am already convinced of its benefits for young children.

So doesn’t it go without saying that these benefits will continue for older children, and that if we allowed school-aged children to spend more time outside then all kinds of improved learning outcomes would follow?

When I started digging into the research I was shocked by what I found. Studies employing poor-quality methodology abound. I’m not sure a control group exists in the whole lot of them. And “results” are measured in terms of how much students like the program, or how much their self-esteem has improved (as subjectively measured by a teacher’s evaluation).

One of the best papers I found on the topic was written by Dr. Mark Leather – it acknowledges the potential benefits of forest schools while removing the rose-tinted glasses to clearly see the limitations of the research base on this topic as well. So invited Dr. Leather onto the show to explore what are forest schools, what may be their benefits, and whether he would send his child to one…

Jump to highlights

01:58 Introduction to Dr. Mark Leather, senior lecturer in outdoor education and author of a critique of forest school

03:18 Tracing forest school’s roots to Scandinavian “friluftsliv” and how the concept shifted crossing cultures

06:25 Victorian British schooling history and why “wet play” still exists in UK primary schools today

13:19 Defining forest school: child-led learning, all-weather sessions, and trained leaders

16:45 The role of the campfire, and an evolutionary psychology case for why humans like fire, coastlines, and high views

20:29 Is being outdoors itself essential, or is it really about personal and social development?

25:03 Extending traditional outdoor education (once reserved for teens) down to preschool-age children

27:29 How parents can know whether child-led, unstructured time in nature actually counts as “learning”

31:54 Weaving structured and unstructured play together, illustrated by a poetry project with teenage boys on Dartmoor

34:16 Do forest school certifications actually signal quality, compared to deep, generational knowledge holders

44:08 A UK residential-learning study as a model for what rigorous forest school research could look like

46:23 The cost problem: why outdoor learning loses out to standardized, easily measured classroom teaching

References

Aasen, W., Torunn, L., & Waters, J. (2009). The outdoor environment as a site for children’s participation, meaning-making and democratic learning: Examples from Norwegian kindergartens. Education 71(1), 5-13.

Cumming, F., & Nash, M. (2015). An Australian perspective of forest school: Shaping a sense of place to support learning. Journal of Adventure Education and Outdoor Learning 15J(4), 296-309.

MacEachren, Z. (2018). First Nation pedagogical emphasis on imitation and making the stuff of life: Canadian lessons for indigenizing Forest Schools. Journal of Outdoor and Environmental Education 21, 89-102.

Maciver, T. (2011) Developing practice and delivering a Forest School programme for children identified as gifted and talented. In S. Knight (Ed.)., Forest School for all (pp.41-53). Los Angeles, CA: Sage.

Morgan, A. (2018). Culturing the fruits of the forest: Realizing the multifunctional potential of space and place in the context of woodland and/or Forest Schools. Journal of Outdoor and Environmental Education 21, 117-130.

Murray, R., & O’Brien, L. (2005, October). ‘Such enthusiasm – A joy to see’: An evaluation of Forest School in England. Forest Research & NEF. Retrieved from: https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/documents/1418/ForestSchoolEnglandReport.pdf

Murray, R. (2003, November). A Forest School evaluation project: A study in Wales. NEF. Retrieved from: https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/research/forest-schools-impact-on-young-children-in-england-and-wales/education-and-learning-evaluation-of-forest-schools-phase-1-wales/

O’Brien, L., & Murray, R. (2006). “A marvelous opportunity for children to learn”: A participatory evaluation of Forest School in England and Wales. Forestry Commission England & Forest Research. Retrieved from: http://www.outdoorrecreationni.com/publication/benefits-of-outdoor-recreation/social-development-learning-2/a-marvellous-opportunity-for-children-to-learn-obrien-murray-2006/

Sharmaa-Brymer, V., Brymer, E., Gray, T., & Davids, K. (2018). Affordances guiding Forest School practice: The application of the ecological dynamics approach. Journal of Outdoor and Environmental Education 21, 103-115.

Suggate, S.P. (2012). Watering the garden before a rainstorm: The case of early reading instruction. In S. Suggate and E. Reese (Eds.), Contemporary debates in childhood education and development (pp.181-190). Abingdon, England: Routeledge.

Wicks, R. (2011). Forest School and looked after children. In S. Knight (Ed.)., Forest School for all (pp.153-161). Los Angeles, CA: Sage.

Williams-Siegfredsen, J. (2012). Understanding the Danish Forest School approach: Early years education in practice. London, U.K.: Routeledge.

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073: What to do when your child refuses to go to school

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 21:00:00 +0000

We’re a couple of weeks into the new school year by now and I hope that for most of you the morning drop-offs have gotten a bit easier than they were in the beginning.

But some of you may still be struggling with a child who doesn’t want to go to school, who resists you leaving at drop-0ff time, and who might be suddenly suffering from stomachaches and headaches (particularly on Sunday nights or weekday mornings) that had not previously been a problem.

Today’s interview with Dr. Jonathan Dalton, director of the Center for Anxiety and Behavioral Change in Rockville, MD is going to help us understand whether our child is having a ‘normal’ amount of difficulty transitioning to school or if they are struggling enough that they might need extra help – and if so, what to do about it.

Jump to highlights

01:24 Introduction to Dr. Jonathan Dalton, psychologist specializing in anxiety-based school refusal

03:13 Why ages 5-6 are a common onset point for separation-related school refusal

07:02 Where normal separation anxiety ends and separation anxiety disorder begins

09:09 The four functions behind school-refusal behavior: positive reinforcement, tangible rewards, and negative reinforcement through escape or avoidance

18:10 Risk factors for school refusal, including behavioral inhibition in infancy

22:34 The role of the teacher-student attachment relationship, and a 40,000-student Chicago study on liking school

26:17 A vicious cycle: how negative attention and disruptive behavior can compound for some students

29:31 Long-term consequences of school refusal, including lower high school graduation rates

32:36 How to tell ordinary adjustment from a problem serious enough to need professional help

38:08 The four-part treatment model: psychoeducation, exposure therapy, parent training, and school consultation

44:13 Clarifying exposure therapy versus the broader, often misused term “CBT”

50:07 Everyday strategies for parents: routines, “watering the seeds, not the weeds,” and a scene from the movie Ray

References

Bergin, C., & Bergin, D. (2009). Attachment in the classroom. Educational Psychology Review 21, 141-170.

Dalton, J., & Beacon, V. (2018). School refusal. In D. Driver & S.S. Thomas (Eds.), Complex disorders in pediatric psychiatry: A clinician’s guide (pp 11-22). St. Louis, MO: Elsevier.

Egger, H.L., Costello, J., & Angold, A. (2003). School refusal and psychiatric disorders: A community study. Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry 42(7), 797-807.

Hallinan, M.T. (2008). Teacher influences on students’ attachment to school. Sociology of Education 81, 271-283.

Hamre, B.K., & Pianta, R.C. (2001). Early teacher-child relationships and the trajectory of children’s school outcomes through eighth grade. Child Development 72(2), 625-638.

Houts, R.M., Caspi, A., Pianta, R.C., Arseneault, L., & Moffitt, T.E. (2010) The challenging pupil in the classroom: The effect of the child on the teacher. Psychological Science 21(12), 1802-1810.

Jerome, E.M., Hamre, B.K., & Pianta, R.C. (2009). Teacher-child relationships from kindergarten to sixth grade: Early childhood predictors of teacher-perceived conflict and closeness. Social Development 18(4), 915-945.

Kearney, C.A. (2016). Managing school-based absenteeism at multiple tiers: An evidence-based and practical guide for professionals. Oxford, U.K.: Oxford University Press.

Kearney, C.A., & Albano, A.M. (2007). When children refuse school: A cognitive-behavioral therapy approach, Therapist guide (2^nd Ed.). Oxford, U.K.: Oxford University Press.

Kearney, C.A. (2006). Dealing with school refusal behavior: A primer for family physicians. Family Practice 55(8), 685-692.

Kearney, C.A. (2002). Identifying the function of school refusal behavior: A revision of the school refusal assessment scale. Journal of Psychopathology and Behavioral Assessment 24(4), 235-245.

King, N., Tonge, B.J., Heyne, D., & Ollendick, T.H. (2000). Research on the cognitive-behavioral treatment of school refusal: A review and recommendations. Clinical Psychology Review 20(4), 495-507.

Ladd, G.W., & Dinella, L.M. (2009). Continuity and change in early school engagement: Predictive of children’s achievement trajectories from first to eighth grade? Journal of Educational Psychology 101(1), 190-206.

Ladd, G.W., & Buhs, E.S., & Seid, M. (2000). Children’s initial sentiments about kindergarten: Is school liking an antecedent of early classroom participation and achievement? Merrill-Palmer Quarterly 46(2), 255-279.

Last, C. G., Hansen, C., & Franco, N. (1998). Cognitive-behavioral treatment of school phobia. Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry 37, 404–411.

Pianta, R. C., Belsky, J., Vandergrift, N., Houts, R. M., & Morrison, F. J. (2008). Classroom effects on children’s achievement trajectories in elementary school. American Educational Research Journal 45 (2), 365–397

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070: Why isn’t my child grateful?

Jen Lumanlan — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 02:44:00 +0000

“I spent the whole morning painting and doing origami and felting projects with my daughter – and not only did she not say “thank you,” but she refused to help clean up!” (I actually said this myself this morning:-))

“We took our son to Disneyland and went on every ride he wanted to go on except one, which was closed, and he spent the rest of the trip whining about how the whole trip was ruined because he didn’t get to go on that one ride.” (I hope I never have to say this one…I’m not sure I could make it through Disneyland in one piece.)

You might recall that we did an episode a while back on manners, and what the research says about teaching manners, and how what the research says about teaching manners comes from the assumption that manners MUST be explicitly taught – that your child will NOT learn to say “thank you” unless you tell your child “say thank you” every time someone gives them a gift.

We also talked about how parent educator Robin Einzig uses the concept of “modeling graciousness” and that if you treat other people graciously, when your child is ready, she will be gracious as well. The problem here, of course, is that most people expect your child to display some kind of manners before they are developmentally ready to really understand the concept behind it.

But what really underlies manners? Well, ideas like gratitude. Because when we train children to say “thank you” before they are ready to do it themselves they might learn to recite the words at the appropriate time, but they aren’t really experiencing gratitude.

Dr. Jonathan Tudge of the University of North Carolina at Greensboro tells us much more about this, and how we can scaffold our child’s ability to experience gratitude, if we decide we might want to do that.

Dr. Tudge’s book, Developing Gratitude in Children and Adolescents (co-edited with Dr. Lia B. L. Freitas) contains lots more academic research on this topic if you’re interested.

Jump to highlights

00:38 Introduction to the episode and guest Dr. Jon Tudge

02:27 What gratitude actually means, and its three parts

05:01 Why most “gratitude” scales are really measuring appreciation

09:40 Is saying “thank you” the same as being grateful?

12:09 Modeling gratitude instead of forcing a child to say thank you

21:24 The cookie jar test: how theory of mind connects to gratitude

24:21 Concrete gratitude: when kids give back what they themselves love

28:07 How the development of gratitude differs across cultures

33:25 Shifting a child’s focus from the gift to the person who gave it

40:50 A mindset shift for teachers and parents: what can I give, not what can I get

References

Halberstadt, A.G., Langley, H.A., Hussong, A.M., Rothenberg, W.A., Coffman, J.L., Mokrova, I., & Costanzo, P.R. (2016). Parents’ understanding of gratitude in children: A thematic analysis. Early Childhood Research Quarterly 36, 439-451.

Kiang, l. Mendonca S., Liang, Y., Payir, A., O’Brien, L.T., Tudge, J.R.H., & Freitas, L.B.L. (2016). If children won lotteries: Materialism, gratitude, and imaginary windfall spending. Young Consumers 17(4), 408-418.

Mendonca, S.E., Mercon-Vargas, E.A., Payir, A., & Tudge, J.R.H. (2018). The development of gratitude in seven societies: Cross-cultural highlights. Cross-Cultural Research 52(1), 135-150.

Mercon-Vargas, E.A., Poelker, A.E., & Tudge, J.R.H. (2018). The development of the virtue of gratitude: Theoretical foundations and cross-cultural issues. Cross-Cultural Research 52(1), 3-18.

Mokrova, I.L., Mercon-Vargas, E.A., & Tudge, J.R.H. (2018). Wishes, gratitude, and spending preferences in Russian Children. Cross-Cultural Research 52(1), 102-116.

Nelson, J.A., Freitas, L.B.L., O’Brien, M., Calkins, S.D., Leerkes, E.M., & Marcovich, S. (2013). Preschool-aged children’s understanding of gratitude: Relations with emotion and mental state knowledge. British Journal of Developmental Psychology 31, 42056.

Tudge, J.R.H., & Freitas, L.B.L. (Eds.) (2018). Developing gratitude in children and adolescents. Cambridge, U.K: Cambridge University Press.

Wang, D., Wang, Y.C., & Tudge, J.R.H. (2015). Expressions of gratitude in children and adolescents: Insights from China and the United States. Journal of Cross-Cultural Psychology 46(8), 1039-1058.

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068: Do I HAVE to pretend play with my child?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 21:00:00 +0000

Pretty regularly I see posts in online parenting groups saying “My child loves to pretend, and they always want me to participate. I dare not tell anyone else, but I CAN’T STAND PRETEND PLAY. What should I do?”

In this final (unless something else catches my interest!) episode in our extended series on play, Dr. Ansley Gilpin of the University of Alabama helps us to do a deep dive into what children learn from pretend play, and specifically what they learn from fantasy play, which is pretend play regarding things that could not happen in real life (like making popcorn on Mars).

We’ll discuss the connection between fantasy play and children’s executive function, the problems with studying fantasy play, and the thing you’ve been waiting for: do you HAVE to do fantasy play with your child if you just can’t stand it (and what to do instead!)

If you missed other episodes in this series, you might want to check them out: we started out asking “what is the value of play?”, then we looked at the benefits of outdoor play and talked with Dr. Scott Sampson about his book How to Raise a Wild Child. We wrapped up with outdoor play by trying to understand whether we should allow our children to take more risks.

Jump to highlights

01:24 Introduction to Dr. Ansley Gilpin, developmental psychologist researching executive function and imagination

02:06 Defining fantasy play as distinct from ordinary pretend play

08:17 A correlational study linking fantasy play to executive function skills

11:33 A five-week intervention study comparing fantasy play, reality-based play, and non-imaginative games

20:30 Choosing culturally appropriate play prompts, including a story about religious families and pretend play

25:19 Anthropological evidence: many cultures don’t expect parents to engage in children’s make-believe at all

27:06 Should parents feel obligated to join fantasy play, or is redirecting sometimes okay?

30:39 Imaginary friends: how common they are, and when (rarely) they’re something to worry about

35:40 Using pretend play as a window into a child’s real emotional distress, and how to tell the difference

39:52 Do elaborate costumes and props actually help imaginative play, or is a stick just as good?

40:52 A note on heavy TV viewing potentially crowding out children’s own imaginative play

42:33 A study on kids’ preferences: given the choice, most children prefer doing the real activity over pretending

References

Bergen, D. (2013). Does pretend play matter? Searching for Evidence: Comment on Lillard et al. (2013). Psychological Bulletin 139(1), 45-48.

Buchsbaum, D., Bridgers, S., Weisberg, D.S., & Gopnik, A. (2012). The power of possibility: Causal learning, counterfactual reasoning, and pretend play. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society 367. 2202-2212.

Carlson, S.M., White, R.E., & Davis-Unger, A.C. (2014). Evidence for a relation between executive function and pretense representation in preschool children. Cognitive Development 29, 1-16.

Gilpin, A.T., Brown, MM., & Pierucci, J.M. (2015). Relations between fantasy orientation and emotion regulation in preschool. Early Education and Development 26(7), 920-932.

Hirsh-Pasek, K., Weisberg, D.S., & Golinkoff, R.M. (2013). Embracing complexity: Rethinking the relation between play and learning: Comment on Lillard et al. (2013). Psychological Bulletin 139(1), 35-39.

Hoffman, J.D., & Russ, S.W. (2016). Fostering pretend play skills and creativity in elementary school school girls: A group play intervention. Psychology of Aesthetics, Creativity, and the Arts 10(1), 114-125.

Krasnor, L. R., & Pepler, D. J. (1980). The study of children’s play: Some suggested future directions. In K. H. Rubin (Ed.), Children’s play: New directions for child development (pp. 85–95). San Francisco, CA: Jossey-Bass.

Lancy, D. F. (2015). The anthropology of childhood: Cherubs, chattel, changelings. Cambridge, U.K.: Cambridge University Press.

Li, J., Hestenes, L.L., & Wang, Y.C. (2016). Links between preschool children’s social skills and observed pretend play in outdoor childcare environments. Early Childhood Education Journal 44, 61-68.

Lillard, A. (2011). Mother-child fantasy play. In A. D. Pelligrini (Ed.), The Oxford handbook of the development of play (pp. 284–295). New York, NY: Oxford University Press.

Lillard, A.S., Lerner, M.D., Hopkins, E.J., Dore, R.A., Smith, E.D., & Palmquist, C.M. (2013). The impact of pretend play on children’s development: A review of the evidence. Psychological Bulletin 139(1), 1-34.

Lillard, A.S., Hopkins, E.J., Dore, R.A., Palmquist, C.M., Lerner, M.D., & Smith, E.D. (2013). Concepts, theories, methods and reasons: Why do the children (pretend) play? Reply to Weisberg, Hirsh-Pasek and Golinkoff (2013); Bergen (2013); and Walker and Gopnik (2013). Psychological Bulletin 139(1), 49-52.

Ma, L., & Lillard, A. (2017). The evolutionary significance of pretend play: Two-year-olds’ interpretation of behavioral cues. Learning & Behavior 45, 441-448.

Paley, V. (2009). The importance of fantasy, fairness, and friends in children’s play: An interview with Vivian Gussin Paley. American Journal of Play 2(2), 121-138.

Pierucci, J.M., O’Brien, C.T., McInnis, M.A., Gilpin, A.T., & Barber, A.B. (2014). Fantasy orientation constructs and related executive function development in preschool: Developmental benefits to executive functions by being a fantasy-oriented child. International Journal of Behavioral Development 38(1), 62-69.

Singer, D.G., & Singer, J.L. (2013). Reflections on pretend play, imagination, and child development. Interview in American Journal of Play 6(1), 1-13.

Sutton-Smith, B., & Kelly-Byrne, D. (1984). The idealization of play. In P. K. Smith (Ed.), Play in animals and humans (pp. 305–321). Oxford, England: Blackwell.

Taggart, J., Heise, M.J., & Lillard, A.S. (2018). The real thing: Preschoolers prefer actual activities to pretend ones. Developmental Science 21, e12582.

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064: Compassion (and how to help your child develop it)

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 20 May 2018 22:48:00 +0000

“Social and Emotional Learning” is all the rage in school these days, along with claims that it can help children to manage their emotions, make responsible decisions, as well as improve academic outcomes.

But what if those programs don’t go nearly far enough?

What if we could support our child in developing a sense of compassion that acts as a moral compass to not only display compassion toward others, but also to pursue those things in life that have been demonstrated – through research – to make us happy? And what if we could do that by supporting them in reading cues they already feel in their own bodies, and that we ordinarily train out of them at a young age?

Dr. Brendan Ozawa-de Silva, Associate Director for the Emory University’s Center for Contemplative Science and Compassion-Based Ethics, tells us about his work to bring secular ethics, which he calls the cultivation of basic human values, into education and society.

Learn more about Breandan’s work here:

www.compassion.emory.edu

https://www.facebook.com/emoryseelearning/

We also mentioned the Yale University course The Psychology of Wellbeing, which is available on Coursera here.

Jump to highlights

01:42 Introduction to Dr. Brendan Ozawa-de Silva of Emory’s Center for Contemplative Science and Compassion-Based Ethics

01:51 Defining “secular ethics” and how it connects to social and emotional learning

08:22 Why adults not having all the answers can still be a productive, courageous space to open up

10:21 A four-year-old’s spontaneous conversation about compassion, and why this starts before school age

14:53 Free resources at compassion.emory.edu, and starting with “what is kindness?”

17:21 How reciprocity develops over childhood, from tit-for-tat to a broader, farsighted sense of responsibility

21:37 The state of SEL research: why inconsistent results don’t necessarily mean the approach doesn’t work

27:43 Weighing structured programs against unstructured outdoor play as another path to these same skills

32:54 Connecting sensation-awareness to past episodes on risky play and modeling emotional regulation

35:09 The marshmallow study and impulse control as an example of why regulating emotion matters

36:11 The “spark and forest fire” analogy for catching emotions early, before they escalate

40:47 Teaching kids metacognition: practicing the skill of just watching their own mind

42:42 Mediating disputes between siblings: body awareness, mindful dialogue, and perspective-taking

48:10 Zooming out: happiness research, the “hedonic treadmill,” and where material success falls short

52:09 A comparison to hyper-competitive education systems elsewhere, like India and Japan

References

Desbordes, G., Negi, L.T., Pace, T.W.W., Wallace, B.A., Raison, C.L., & Schwartz, E.L. (2012). Effects of mindful-attention and compassion medication training on amygdala response to emotional stimuli in an ordinary, non-meditative state. Frontiers in Human Neuroscience 6(1), 1-15.

Frey, K.S., Nolen, S.B., Edstrom, L.V., & Hirschstein, M.K. (2005). Effects of a school-based social-emotional competence program: Linking children’s goals, attributions, and behavior. Applied Developmental Psychology 26, 171-200.

Lantieri, L., & Nambiar, M. (2012). Cultivating the social, emotional, and inner lives of children and teachers. Reclaiming Children and Youth 21(2), 27-33.

Maloney, J.E., Lawlor, M.S., Schonert-Reichl, K.A., & Whitehead, J. (2016). A mindfulness-based social and emotional learning curriculum for school-aged children: The MindUP program. In K.A. Schoenert-Reichl & R.W. Roeser (Eds.), Handbook of mindfulness in education (pp.313-334). New York, NY: Springer.

Ozawa-de Silva, B., & Dodson-Lavelle, B. (2011). An education of heart and mind: Practical and theoretical issues in teaching cognitive-based compassion training to children. Practical Matters 4, 1-28.

Pace, T.W.W., Negi, L.T., Adame, D.D., Cole, S.P., Sivilli, T.I., Brown, T.D., Issa, M.J., & Raison, C.L. (2009). Effect of compassion meditation on neuroendocrine, innate immune and behavioral responses to psychosocial stress. Psychoneuroendocrinology 34, 87-98.

Rovelli, C. (2017). Reality is not what it seems: The journey to quantum gravity. New York, NY: Riverhead.

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058: What are the benefits of outdoor play?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 21:00:00 +0000

This is the second in our extended series of episodes on children’s play. We kicked off last week with a look at the benefits of play in general for children, and now we’re going to take a more specific look at the benefits of outdoor play. Really, if someone could bottle up and sell outdoor play they’d make a killing, because it’s hard to imagine something children can do that benefits them more than this.

This episode also tees up our conversation, which will be an interview with Dr. Scott Sampson on his book How To Raise A Wild Child, which gives TONS of practical suggestions for getting outdoors with children.

Other episodes referenced in this show

How to scaffold children’s learning to help them succeed

Is a Reggio Emilia-inspired preschool right for my child?

Understanding the AAP’s new screen time guidelines

Raising your child in a digital world

Jump to highlights

00:38 Introduction to this episode’s topic: outdoor play, as part of a broader series on play

04:02 Reframing nature as part of everyday life, and acknowledging colonialism and cultural appropriation in this territory

06:12 The decline in children’s outdoor and unsupervised time, from Richard Louv’s research to modern statistics

09:47 The perception of stranger danger versus the actual, much rarer risks children face outdoors

14:23 How technology and screen-based toys differ from natural play in transparency, challenge, and accessibility

19:52 Outdoor play’s link to creativity and executive function, and why the research is hard to pin down

23:07 Social and emotional benefits: how outdoor spaces give children more control and agency than adult-run indoor environments

29:50 A New Zealand preschool study comparing hands-off versus hands-on teacher approaches to outdoor time

References

Anderson, L. W. and Krathwohl, D. R., et al (Eds..) (2001) A Taxonomy for Learning, Teaching, and Assessing: A Revision of Bloom’s Taxonomy of Educational Objectives. Allyn & Bacon. Boston, MA: Pearson Education Group

Berman, M.G., Jonides, J., & Kaplan, S. (2008). The cognitive benefits of interacting with nature. Psychological Science 19(12), 1207-1212.

Brussoni, M., Rebecca, G., Gray, C., Ishikawa, T., & Sandseter, E.B.H. (2015). What is the relationship between risky outdoor play and health in children? A systematic review. International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health 12(6), 6243-6454.

Centers for Disease Control and Prvention (2016). Playground safety. Author. Retrieved from https://www.cdc.gov/safechild/playground/index.html

Capaldi, C.A., Dopko, R.L., & Zelenski, J.M. (2014). The relationship between nature connectedness and happiness: A meta-analysis. Frontiers in Psychology 5, 1-15.

Gregory, A. (2017, May 18). Running free in Germany’s outdoor preschools. The New York Times. Retrieved from https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/18/t-magazine/germany-forest-kindergarten-outdoor-preschool-waldkitas.html?_r=0

Hung, W. (2013). Problem-based learning: A learning environment for enhancing learning transfer. New Directions for Adult and Continuing Education 137(31), 27-38. doi 10.1002/ace.20042

Lund, H.H., Klitbo, T., & Jessen, C. (2005). Playware technology for physically activating play. Artificial Life and Robotics 9(4), 165-174.

Mawson, W.B. (2014). Experiencing the ‘wild woods’: The impact of pedagogy on children’s experience of a natural environment. European Early Childhood Education Research Journal 22(4), 513-524.

Moss, S. (2012). Natural Childhood. London: The National Trust.

Nash, R. (1982). Wilderness and the American Mind (3^rd Ed.). New Haven, CT: Yale University Press.

Natural Playgrounds Company (2017). Website. Retrieved from http://www.naturalplaygrounds.com/

Outdoor Foundation (2017). Outdoor Participation Report. Author. Retrieved from https://outdoorindustry.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/2017-Outdoor-Recreation-Participation-Report_FINAL.pdf

Otto, S., & Pensini, P. (2017). Nature-based environmental education of children: Environmental knowledge and connectness to nature, together, are related to ecological behavior. Global Environmental Change 47, 88-94.

Potvin, P., & Hasni, A. (2014). Interest, motivation, and attitude towards science and technology at K-12 levels: A systematic review of 12 years of educational research. Studies in Science Education 50(1), 85-129.

Richardson, M., Cormack, A., McRobert, L., & Underhill, R. (2016). 30 days wild: Development and evaluation of a large-scale nature engagement campaign to improve well-being. PLOS ONE 11(2), 1-13.

Roisin, H. (2014, April). The overprotected kid. The Atlantic. Retrieved from https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/04/hey-parents-leave-those-kids-alone/358631/

Scott, J. (2000, July 15). When child’s play is too simple; Experts criticize safety-conscious recreation as boring. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/15/arts/when-child-s-play-too-simple-experts-criticize-safety-conscious-recreation.html

Sloan, C. (2013). Transforming multicultural classrooms through creative place-based learning. Multicultural Education 21(1), 26-32. Retreived from https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1045830.pdf

Ulset, V., Vitaro, F., Brengden, M., Bekkhus, M., & Borge, A.I.H. (2017). Time spent outdoors during preschool: Links with children’s cognitive and behavioral development. Journal of Environmental Psychology 52, 69-70.

Waite, S., Rogers, S., & Evans, J. (2013). Freedom, flow, and fairness: Exploring how children develop socially at school through outdoor play. Journal of Adventure Education and Outdoor Learning 13(3), 255-276.

Waller, T., Arlemalm-Hager, E., Sandseter, E.B.H., Lee-Hammond, L., Lekies, K., & Wyver, S. (2017). The SAGE handbook of outdoor play and learning. Thousand Oaks, CA: SAGE.

Williams, F. (2017). The nature fix. New York, NY: WW Norton.

Wyver, S. (2017). Outdoor play and cognitive development. In T. Waller, E. Arlemalm-Hagster, E.B. Hansen Sandseter, L. Lee-Hammond, K.S. Lekies, and S. Wyer (Eds.), The SAGE handbook of outdoor play and learning. Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage.

Young, J., McGown, E., & Haas, E. (2010). Coyote’s guide to connecting with nature. Owlink Media.

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057: What is the value of play?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 21:00:00 +0000

Does play really matter? Do children get anything out of it? Or is it just messing around; time that could be better spent preparing our children for success in life?

Today we talk with Dr. Stuart Brown, founder of the National Institute for Play, about the benefits of play for both children and – I was surprised to find – adults.

This is the first in a series of episodes on play – lots more to come on outdoor play (and how to raise kids who love being outdoors), risky play, and imaginative play.

Dr. Stuart Brown’s Book

Play: How it shapes the brain, opens the imagination, and invigorates the soul – Affiliate link

References

Bjorklund, D.F., & Brown, R.D. (1998). Physical play and cognitive development: Integrating activity, cognition, and education. Child Development, 69, 604-606.

Brown, S. (2009). Play: How it shapes the brain, opens the imagination, and invigorates the soul. New York, NY: Penguin.

Christakis, D. A., F. J. Zimmerman, and M. Garrison. (2007). Effect of block play on language acquisition and attention in toddlers a pilot randomized controlled trial. Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine,161 (10), 967-971.

Csíkszentmihályi, Mihály (1990). Flow: The psychology of optimal experience. New York: Harper and Row.

Duckworth, A.L. (2016). Grit: The power of passion and perseverance. New York, NY: Scribner.

Elkind, D. (2003). Thanks for the memory: The lasting value of true play. Young Children 58(3), 46-51.

Lancy, D.F. (2015). The anthropology of childhood: Cherubs, chattel, changelings (2^nd Ed.). Cambridge, U.K.: Cambridge University Press.

Read Full Transcript

Transcript

Jen: [00:40]

Hello and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. We’re kicking off a series of episodes today on the topic of play. Now I hear you wondering: play? There’s enough research about play to be able to do one episode, never mind a series of episodes?! And my response to that would be, Oh yes, there is just you. Wait, so we’re going to kick off today with an overview of the topic and then we’ll delve into various aspects of play with a particular focus on outdoor play because it’s important to me and just sometimes that’s how we pick topics around here. So today we have is our very special guest Dr. Stuart Brown, MD. I first learned of his work when I heard the National Institute for Play mentioned during a show on NPR. I thought to myself, there is a national institute for play. I have to talk to somebody from there, and so Dr. Brown, who’s the founder and director of the National Institute for Play is here to share his research and work. I was fascinated to read his book play, how it shapes the brain, opens the imagination and invigorates the soul because I was expecting it to tell me how important play is to my daughter’s development, but I wasn’t expecting it to tell me how important play is to my own wellbeing as well. So we’ll get into that to welcome Dr. Brown.

Dr. Brown: [01:51]

Glad to be here Jen.

Jen: [01:53]

So let’s start with something that seems kind of obvious, but then you think about it a bit and you realize that you’re actually not quite sure what it is. So I’m wondering, can you please define play for us?

Dr. Brown: [02:04]

Well, it’s very hard to define; it’s a little like love in that play is an experience and it is often prompted by pre-verbal sorts of impulses. But having said that, we always like to think of it as something that is definable, although I think most of us, if we see a puppy or kitty playing in front of us, we know that what they’re doing is play, but it’s voluntary; it’s done for its own sake. It appears purposeless. It takes one out of a sense of time. There is a diminished sense of self importance. You’re just engaged in what you’re doing. It’s fun and pleasurable. It can be interrupted. It’s not driven like addictive or other kinds of activities in general. Like to go back to it and experience it again and it is something that’s deeply instinctively embedded in the humans. So that’s a start anyhow.

Jen: [03:11]

And I’m wondering if you can talk us through, Scott Eberle, I think is how you say his name. He has a six step process of play that you describe in your book. Can you walk us through those six steps?

Dr. Brown: [03:22]

I don’t know if I can go through all six steps butt Scott Eberle was the distinguished editor of the American Journal of Play from its start until just recently when he retired and he has established what he considers the elements of play, kind of like the periodic table of elements define the atomic structure. Then he goes from anticipation to poise and describes there’s anticipation, surprise, increased strength, agility, curiosity, and takes these elements, and if I had them listed in front of me. I could read them off, but he has a whole array of gradations that go from, as you anticipate, for example, an experience of play, whether it’s playing a sport or reading a novel that you’re looking forward to. There is that heightened sense of anticipation. Then once you get into the various elements of play, they establish a kind of a “state of play.” Then he and I have gone back and forth. It had lots of really sort of discussions about his play elements fit very well into the burgeoning neuroscience of play.

Jen: [04:46]

Mmmm. And I’m also wondering as you were reading, as you were talking through some of the elements of play, I was thinking about Czikszentmihalyi’s concept of flow, but it seems to me as though that might be more applicable to when people are working more than playing because they have goal-directed behavior and you said that the play doesn’t have goal-directed behavior. Can you help us to tease out what are the connections between play and flow?

Dr. Brown: [05:11]

I don’t know that it’s correct to say that it doesn’t have goal direction. It is at the time one is experiencing it, the outcome of the experience is less important than the experience itself. That doesn’t mean that the experience doesn’t have purpose. I think one can enjoy a hike or a job and say, oh, well, you know, I’m just doing this for its own sake, and yet it increases physical fitness and personal health, so there is an outcome.

Dr. Brown: [05:45]

So this is not to say that the experience of play itself doesn’t have outcome and deep purpose. It’s just that at the moment, if you’re terribly anxious about performing, you’re probably not playing as much as if you’re just doing something for its own sake.

Jen: [06:04]

And so you alluded to something there that I wanted to get into a bit more deeply and that is about the purpose of play and specifically how that differs for children from different cultures.

Dr. Brown: [06:16]

Well, I don’t know that it differs; I think there are cultures that foster and cultures that suppress it, but I think particularly developmentally that the value of play and the necessity of play for wholeness and wellbeing at a full use of curiosity and engagement in the world, those are universals and they apply both to the human experience cross-culturally and they apply to social mammals at play, and so you see the necessity of particularly early developmental play, whether you’re a coyote or a dolphin or a horse or a human.

Jen: [07:03]

Okay. So this is sort of very common experience then for mammals. And is it right to say that humans have sort of perfected it and taken it to another level, or is it much the same as you see in humans as in other animals?

Dr. Brown: [07:20]

We’re different in that we have language, imagination, curiosity, the search for novelty, but the patterns of play that we see in kids and in highly intelligent animals really quite similar. Then we can learn from animal play a lot about its value because laboratory scientists can objectify that and study it and suppress it and then see the benefits or the effect of a lack of play on development and in highly social mammals and that’s not an ethical thing we could do or want to do with humans.

Jen: [07:54]

Right, and I know that your work has actually focused on children and adults where children experienced play deprivation. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Dr. Brown: [08:05]

Well, in a long, long time ago, over 50 years ago, I got involved in studying a mass murderer who had gone to the top of the Texas tower after killing his wife and mother. He was a 25 year old ex-Marine Eagle Scout, no legal history and [unintelligible] killed 14 people and wounded 32. It was then the largest mass murder in the U.S., which unfortunately has been superseded by may that we’ve seen in our recent time. Anyhow, we looked closely at this individual’s life and he was killed on the top of the tower by vigilante gunfire to stop his outpouring of violence, but we did a very, very detailed study of his life history going back three generations and I won’t go through the whole story, but we found – we being the commission – and we found that his father had systematically suppressed play again and again and again, so that literally this young man grew up without the experience of free play and with the need to conform to the demands and control of this sadistic and disturbed father.

Dr. Brown: [09:30]

So that initial study which was done very carefully and included a very detailed review of his physiology, sort of opened my eyes to what’s going on here that play is so important, particularly in this young man’s life? And it appeared to be necessary for him to have suppressed his violent impulses, which were hidden in part of his diaries and imagination, but not been evident until this moment and the tragedy on the top of the tower. So that then led to a formal study of homicidal males and the Texas prison system for a year or so with a team and we found that the homicidal individuals who were very violent men compared to match controls had very different play history. They there were isolated or bullied or tortured or they were themselves bullies. They didn’t have a normal play background, so we found in that and some other research following, I won’t go through all of it, that have a normal rough and tumble play and the kinds of activities that most of us engage in spontaneously as children were not experienced in general by the populations of violence and social man and so that led me in the course of my long clinical career to review the play histories of everyone that I saw and the psychiatric interns and residents and psychology intern, social workers and the like that were part of my teaching career also collected these detailed…as detailed as possible play histories and one from that long and involved anecdotal history and again, they get a sense that when play is adequate, it really leads to a more fulfilled and meaningful life in one play is seriously deprived life that it has consequences and they’re not obviously homicide or murder, but there are consequences that I think are significant, so it’s from that long base that led to my, when I left clinical practice, led to my independent scholarship and establishment of the National Institute for Play.

Jen: [12:06]

Okay. So I’m curious as to some of the methodological issues with understanding the importance of play history as you’ve just described it and I imagine that people when they were children who had sub-optimal play, history’s probably also had other things going on in their homes as well. You mentioned the Texas murderer having a difficult relationship with a sub-optimal father. How do you tease out the importance of play compared to everything else that might be going on in a family where play is not valued?

Dr. Brown: [12:37]

I think it’s difficult. And I think the fact that these anecdotal reviews were not all established with a rigorous research design means that one can make generalizations about that, but what you see from the lives, particularly where play is intensely, where there’s real deprivation, let’s say the child is isolated or they’ve got a psychotic mother and father, so that there’s no verbal interchange and playfulness and you begin to see the really severe deprivations, then from that and from the murderers, once you get a sense that even if there is abuse and poverty and other kinds of mayhem in the family background, still what stands out as different from a lot of other individuals who had some of those same difficulties, but were able to play, we do see that play has a nourishing, developmentally important component that leads toward wellbeing and resiliency and self organization and things that are otherwise don’t seem to happen in the absence of play.

Dr. Brown: [13:56]

So I can’t tell you that you know, this is. I can write an article and a peer review group would say, okay, we can now pinpoint exactly what play does. I don’t think one can do that and separate it from some of the other issues, but when you then take a look at the animal world and then objectify and limit play highly playful, playful rats, for example, and see the effect on their development and brain function, you begin to get a sense that the experience of play among the playful social mammal is necessary for competency and wellbeing.

Jen: [14:43]

Alright, so that helps us to understand why play is important. So let’s talk about some of the hows we revisit pretty often on this show David Lancy’s book, The Anthropology of Childhood. And so I went back to that book and saw that there was a whole listing of entries in the index for play. And so I went through and read them and I found that in many cultures parents just don’t play with their children at all, particularly if you’re in a culture where there’s a high child mortality rate and the parents just aren’t supposed to get attached to their child. And in many cultures parents aim to raise children who are compliant. And so they do this by wearing the baby, by anticipating the child’s needs. And essentially by not interacting with the child unnecessarily, but in our culture, It’s pretty common for parents to actually play with children, but I was sort of amused to realize that children in other cultures will often play independently for hours by themselves and American parents do sometimes play with their children, but they also expanded quite a bit of energy trying to get their children to play independently, which children and other cultures have mastered perfectly well without being prompted. So I’m curious as to your thoughts on the value of parental play with children to the child.

Dr. Brown: [15:57]

Well, I think parental play is extremely valuable and has a exploration of the possible, searching on novelty, being secure and safe in a protected environment so that there is, I think, enrichment that occurs with culturally approved parent child play. I do think there are almost no cultures that suppress play enough where’s there’s almost no child-child or peer-peer play. And I think many cultures there’s not parent child play, but there’s a lot of mixed age play where the older kids play with the younger kids and there really is a kind of a natural parenting among the play styles that take place. And I’m not an anthropologist, so I don’t claim to cultural expertise. I think there’s some general principles that indicate play is really important developmentally and it is a natural experience for child-child exposure to each other. There’s an onset of play when that happens, when your kids will play, whether they’re Eskimos or Aborigines, they will still play. Or live on the upper west side in Manhattan.

Jen: [17:23]

And so in cultures where parents do play with children, what kind of role should the parent take? Should I lead that play? Should I let her lead that play? Is there some kind of middle ground there? How should that work?

Dr. Brown: [17:38]

You know, I think this is where there’s a lot of general misunderstanding about play itself, because I think what produces natural gleefulness and produces sense of engagement and joy very early; six months on. Let’s say that if the parent then is fostering what turns to produce pleasure, whether it’s physical play or verbal play or musical play or games or objects or toys, the child will have a preference, a kind of a play preference or play personality that that child will exhibit and which will… And if you think back to your own childhood or you have a daughter, I think you said, she will have exhibited things that are for her, giving her a natural high, a natural sense of joyfulness and it’s more than one thing, but in general that kind of profile is intrinsic to the child and the child himself or herself will tell you and show you what it is they love, you know, I think I’ve got eight grandchildren and they’re all different and they play different. They don’t have the same natural predilection and as they’ve grown up, they go from now from ages 15 to 24, they have…there have been natural changes as they’ve aged, and certain preferences. But I think profiling personality, each of us is an important element for parents to observe and know about.

Jen: [19:23]

And so how do we do that? How do I as a parent sort of identify what my child’s play personality. Is there sort of a suite of options or is it more, oh, she seems to prefer this kind of toys, or how does that work?

Dr. Brown: [19:38]

I think this is where you don’t impose your own values system on the kid. Okay, I want this to be an engineer, this boy to be an engineer so he’d better really enjoy making things. Well, he may not want to make things; he may be a verbal, social person without interest in objects. Observe that, and then don’t put your own urgent need of the child show you and you know their own spontaneous rough and tumble play when they’re in, let’s say preschool, the natural proclivities they have in early elementary school give you, you the parent, cues to what to follow. And this is not a rigid thing, it’s just a generalization, but I think it’s a really important element and I think if our culture understood play better, we all would be a more effective parents.

Jen: [20:35]

Alright. So it seems as though children naturally play amongst themselves if they’re given half a chance and we can use that to sort of identify our child’s interests and if we see them perhaps at preschool or a daycare playing together and doing things like cooking, then is that something we can sort of bring back home and say let’s play at cooking or let’s do some cooking. would that be a way to extend the child’s play?

Dr. Brown: [21:00]

Absolutely. Very, very good example.

Jen: [21:03]

Okay, so the general idea then is to watch what your child does and provide more opportunities for doing that in other environments, in other settings with other materials.

Dr. Brown: [21:16]

Correct. And not necessarily have a performance oriented… Lots of parents in preschool are very worried about their kid being ready to read and understanding basic math concepts so that they’re preoccupied often that the play be purposeful and they transmit that anxiety and performance requirements to the kid. So the kid realizes wanting to please the parent, you know, that that’s the interaction that’s taking place instead of a self-organizing feeling from within the child that says this is what I really love and want to do. So that’s kind of a subtle difference.

Jen: [22:02]

OK. So let’s talk about technology in play because I think that can be a difficult one for a lot of parents because children are so drawn to it. And just as an example, I’m thinking of, I don’t think we have any battery operated toys in our home, mostly because I can’t stand the noise, but also because I do believe in the power of the child’s imagination and having toys around that she can use in many different ways that don’t confine her to using them in a certain way, but we were over at a friend’s house recently and they had a little battery operated fake cell phone toy and my daughter just sat on the sofa with that thing for an hour and stuck it up next to her ear and press the buttons over and over. Is that her telling me, Mama, I need some battery operated toys, or was I on the right track? By not providing those and how can parents just manage that? The integration of technology into their children’s play.

Dr. Brown: [22:57]

I wish I had a simple answer to this; I don’t. The images and the gadgetry and the visual stimulation and the fun of operating one of these battery operated technologically sophisticated objects – they’re very compelling. I think the thing that makes sense to me is that those objects don’t become a full substitute for outdoor activity, which I think we’ll talk about more later, or for some kind of curiosity about nature, which is equally important in my view, but technology is here to stay, so the kid needs to be comfortable and capable and I think the parent needs to monitor the time spent and the way that the gadgetry itself, but as I said, I don’t have a simple answer for you to this one.

Jen: [23:52]

So I guess let’s dive right into outdoor play then. We’re going to be talking a lot about that in future episodes, but I wonder if you could just give us an overview of how important you think nature-based play is?

Dr. Brown: [24:05]

Well, I think if you look at the design of the human being biologically and our sensory apparatus and the sort of the heritage that we had over a million years or so, going from foraging to hunter gatherer to tribal organizations, which is sort of how our bodies evolved and designed, the importance of three dimensional movement against gravity. The use distance as well as looking off in the distance as well as close at hand; the understanding of the ecology that’s around you so you can make sense of the world around you; the natural world – that these elements are all part of our biological design so that when there is, as Richard Louv says, Nature Deficit Disorder, where we really are not part of the natural world, I think we are losing a chunk of what it is we’re designed to be and you know, I’m looking at it from my office at a beautiful array of live oak trees are are two ravens that are on a fence and this seems somehow to nourish me to be really necessary and important as a part of my adult life. And I think when kids are entirely separate from the natural world, I think there is for them a real loss and I know that in taking my grandchildren hiking for example, there often is a resistance to getting out and doing it and yet once we’re involved in the exposure to nature, there often is a wonder and curiosity, that seems to just bubble up from within them.

Jen: [26:06]

It’s awesome, isn’t it?

Dr. Brown: [26:08]

Yeah. You know, even if you’re in a very urban setting or you know you’re in Buffalo today, 13 inches of snow or something like that, it may not be as easy to be a part of nature and yet I think that’s partly what we’re…how we’re designed to be…even if we’ve got electricity and radiant heat and all that good stuff in our homes.

Jen: [26:33]

Yeah. So I think a lot of parents saying, okay, well I wasn’t raised with nature. I don’t really know how to do that, but I want my kids to move their body. I want them to know maybe they don’t fully vocalize through the looking near and far thing and they think how can we get that? Ooh, organized sports! And so I have actually read that adults have taken over at children’s place so completely that some children don’t know how to play and may even refuse to play without an adult providing rules and structure for a game of pickup baseball or something like that. So where does organized sports fit into all of this?

Dr. Brown: [27:12]

What you just said is sad, but true. I think there’s a good place for organized sports, and the National Institute for Play has had an adviser by the name of Gary Avischious who lives in the Denver area and he has organized a lot of the sports activities among his neighborhood and locale and then he’s done some workshops where in the idea of personal effort and respect for, you know, if there is an overweight kid who’s a klutz athletically, but it was really trying hard. That kid gets the same respect as the star. And although competition is a natural part of most sporting life, the number of kids that drop out from his sports activities is almost zero per year. Whereas if you look at the average a Little League or other sports activities and you the average drop off for years, 35 percent.

Dr. Brown: [28:16]

So I think what you said about parent involvement, where parents are really revved up about whether their kids winning a soccer or something takes away the joyfulness and the freedom of the sport. Which somebody like Gary has been able to be well off the sideline. I’ve been to one of his banquets at the end of the year where his team did not win, but the team that was there with them and the waiters who were serving the pizza that everybody couldn’t figure out which team had won because his team still had the exuberance of fun with sport, so it can be… I think there are ways of making the sporting life for kids, for kids in particular, more significant correspondence yesterday with somebody talking about Olympic champions and Olympic champions often have multisport experience, not just specialists in one particular sport on the way up and that’s not generally known. And yet the Olympic Committee talks about this is the way to have a more balanced person, less injury prone, is to be involved in multiple sports.

Jen: [29:44]

Yeah. The image of the child who discovered gymnastics at three and pursued it with a single minded dedication until I went and Olympic medal is sort of a common one, isn’t it?

Dr. Brown: [29:55]

Yep. And you know, there are those kids that are so gifted that that’s, that’s the way they go and they’re exuberant at it. So there are obviously exceptions, but in general, multiple sports. And you know, we’re not…very few of us are going to be stars or professional athletes, so you do it for the love of the game and the respect that you have for effort. And that can be taught.

Jen: [30:20]

Yeah. And so that leads me nicely into a question that had about grit, which is getting a ton of press these days and we actually did an episode on that topic a few weeks back and Professor Angela Duckworth has done a lot of this research and she has a book called Grit and she talks about allowing children to experiment and find whatever sport or other idea it is that resonates with them. It could be playing the piano or whatever, but after that she advocates for parents supporting their children and developing grit. And I’m going to quote her “by engaging in rigorous, committed, never ending practice that leads to mastery. It’s finding your weaknesses and addressing them day after day and saying whatever it takes I want to improve.” And so just contrasting that with the exuberance that you talked about in the team that didn’t win the championship and wondering are the two ideas mutually exclusive or is there something about making something more like play that makes it easier to be gritty about it?

Dr. Brown: [31:18]

Well, when I look at let’s say the natural history of play behavior and you watch it the two year old messing with blocks and what you see if they like to make things and structured things, you’ll see engagement, perseverance, rigorous sort of concentration which is a part of mastery and play. So if the piano is not your thing and you’re being forced to be rigorous and gritty, make sure it fits with the talent, and then the engagement and the grit will tend to be, I think less honorous and more a natural part of the play ethic and you know, I can be involved and not really mixed with the work ethic, but there is a sense of real commitment and exuberance and that goes along with the grit. That’s optimum. It may be rare, but it’s optimum.

Jen: [32:25]

Yeah.

Dr. Brown: [32:25]

I don’t have any big controversy with Angela, and I think there are times when a parent needs to step in where a kid has natural talent and will have trouble or failed or had a little difficulty then the parent does need to offer structure and supervision, but in general, forcing someone to become a ballet dancer when you know they’re going to grow up and be a 185 pounds and that’s not going to fit the ballet scene. Wrong choice.

Jen: [32:58]

Alright, so let’s shift gears a little bit. I mentioned in the introduction that one of the things that most surprised me when I read your book was the importance of play to adults for the adult’s sake, not just for the child’s sake. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Dr. Brown: [33:13]

Well, one of the nice things about having had the luxury of doing independent scholarship on play and look at the biological design of various creatures that play a whole lot of their life cycle. And when you do that, you look at the primate heritage that is our human heritage and realize that we’re not very specialized adults. We retain a lot of immature features into our adulthood and by that the example of something common is, if you’ve read the book, you know I write about a labrador retriever, plays until they die; retrieves until they die. They don’t get to be crotchety old wolves. They’re bred to remain immature even though they die of old age. When you look at our primate heritage from a paleo-anthroplogic point of view as best we can, really find that the human being is designed to have flexibility and immature features in our biology, our entire life cycle so that although there’s a much higher drive to play while we’re early and developmentally immature, nonetheless, when we are older, even middle age or old age, there is a need to continue to play. That’s part of our essential biological design called neoteny. And a neotenous state persists so that we have a highly flexible plastic nervous system into old age and a lot of other animals and other primates do not have that. For example, the chimpanzee, which is what, ninety five plus percent of our genes, if they have a stroke and we have a human that has a stroke in the same area of the brain and you do rehab on the chance and you do rehab on the human, human will grow new neurons, will have more plasticity, whereas the chimp will be permanently. That’s a little simplistic, but it’s essentially right. So the play in adulthood and my interview of a lot of adults with play deprivation would indicate that there is, when you don’t follow your biological design to play, it’s not [unintelligible] parallel, but it’s a lot like sleep.

Dr. Brown: [35:59]

Sleep and dreams are something we see in the animal world. Certainly you see it in all humans, and their sleep patterns are different from infancy to old age, but if you have sleep deprivation, there are consequences and I think there are some interesting parallels about play deprivation that apply to a human being. My clinical experience is you get a high performing adult that’s got play deprivation and they showed some signs of rigidity of thought and mild depression and lack of optimism and not looking for…enjoying novelty and that sort of thing. So you see some consequences from play deprivation and that means to me, we need to play in our adulthood.

Jen: [36:45]

Yeah. Okay. So let’s talk about how to do that. it seems as though there are a couple of ways we could potentially go about it. One of which is playing with our children and the other is playing without our children, and let’s talk about those separately. So one of the things that I hear a lot from parents is that they kind of feel bad about admitting this, but they don’t particularly enjoy playing with their children and particularly in engaging in imaginative play with their children. And so I personally…I’m going to go on record and say I find some aspects of playing with my daughter pretty boring, particularly the imaginative play and the best way that I personally have found to manage it is to focus on the benefit to me of learning to be in the present and also understanding the value of what we’re doing in that moment to my daughter’s development. But it feels a bit tenuous. I’m making something up to justify what I’m doing. Is there a better way of appreciating play with children?

Dr. Brown: [37:44]

That’s a good question. I think the child varies. Again, I’ve mentioned grandchildren, and for some of them the kinds of bantering or mutual storytelling. For one of my grandkids, he couldn’t be more bored if I started doing that. For him, play is body play; you throw a ball with him and you’re having a good time. Tell a story to him and he’s bored out of his mind. Even though the story, I think, is really good.

Jen: [38:12]

Well, yeah, if you made it up!

Dr. Brown: [38:17]

So – in adults – worldwide, most play that occurs spontaneously is mixed age free play among kids. It isn’t adult to kid play. We have a lot of that in our culture and you know what I think about vacations with my kids when they were younger, if we went to the beach or did skiing or did some things together, that was great, but individual game play for example, it didn’t work too well in my family, but some families, my brother’s family for example, game play is great; I’ve got a cousin whose kids play great games together, so it’s individual.

Jen: [39:00]

Okay. So it’s about finding something that works for your family, then.

Dr. Brown: [39:04]

Sure! I mean, the fact that you’re not really turned on by mutual imagined play, it’s fine!

Jen: [39:10]

She likes it, though.

Dr. Brown: [39:13]

Well, you know, limit it then, so you don’t get too bored.

Jen: [39:17]

Okay. And she’s not going to turn into a mass murderer. Are you promising me though?

Dr. Brown: [39:21]

No!

Jen: [39:21]

Okay.

Dr. Brown: [39:23]

Just the opposite. It doesn’t take that much play for it to have really useful payoffs.

Jen: [39:32]

Okay.

Dr. Brown: [39:33]

You know, it’s pretty amazing. One of the advisers to the National Institute for Play had just a horribly difficult childhood alcoholic parents, Black inner city Philadelphia, really, tough, poverty-laden, you know, awful childhood that he found a way to get to the playground and play regularly and he has had a remarkable life and he says very vividly himself that those moments of playground salvaged his life, and I think he’s right.

Jen: [40:06]

Okay. So I guess as a take home from that, then I don’t have to do it all the time or whenever she wants to do it, you know, if I do it sometimes then it’s not the end of the world.

Dr. Brown: [40:19]

It’s not the end of the world. And I think they pick up on whether you’re really enjoying it or not. If you’re sort of pseudo-playing they’re going to feel that; Kids are pretty good at picking up parents’ emotions.

Jen: [40:31]

Yeah. Yeah. And when you were describing kind of the mixed-age play, that’s a more natural thing in many societies. It reminded me of an outing that I took this weekend with some friends and we just took a bunch of kids down to a mud flat at low tide and with some shovels and waders and let them have at it and it was genuinely fun. I can interact with her and the other children and or I could withdraw a little bit and just talk to the parents while the children interacted by themselves. And that really was genuinely fun to me. And so it seems as though though doing more of those kinds of things would be beneficial too.

Dr. Brown: [41:07]

Great examples. Right on. Good for you.

Jen: [41:12]

Okay. So we’ll be talking more about those kinds of outings in the future. episodes on play outdoors. So as we wrap up here, I just want to think about what advice you might have for parents who want to take stock of their own ability to play, and maybe play a little bit more than they do right now, perhaps not all of that being played with children, but just for themselves for their own sake.

Dr. Brown: [41:36]

Very very very important because if the adult parent isn’t really free to play themselves, they’re not going to give visceral permission to their kids to play and as a matter of fact they are often going to be defended against that, so I think it’s really an important public health issue for everyone to take a look at their own play life, and if they have suppressed it or if they just don’t play much as adults – too much mortgage to pay; too many demands. Take a look at your life and play belongs as a priority in everyone’s life doesn’t mean you have to spend 80 percent of your time playing. It just means that to get into that freedom, that voluntary definition that I described at the beginning of the podcast, that you find that if you haven’t got access to that, how come? What was an early memory where you really and can you connect that emotion of that memory to something in your current life now and then let it happen. Particularly important for adults, and it’s really important, I think for the whole process of ongoing intimacy between partners, play and intimacy, go together. Play and love go together.

Jen: [42:59]

Yeah, you’re actually reminding me of something that someone said at my wedding when they were looking around at couples who had stayed together. It was literally the couples who played together stayed together because they enjoyed spending time together doing the same things.

Dr. Brown: [43:15]

Right. And you know, that evolves with time. We’re different as we age, we don’t all…You have to kind of adapt and do things that work for each of you again, it may not be the same.

Jen: [43:27]

Yeah. Which is not to say you have to do everything together. My husband and I certainly don’t do, but there needs to be some kind of overlap of interest.

Dr. Brown: [43:35]

Sure.

Jen: [43:36]

Yeah. Okay. Well thank you so much for helping us to understand not only the benefits of play for children but also in our own lives. I think that’s been a really key take-home for me from this and I’m going to try and play some more in the future.

Dr. Brown: [43:49]

Good for you, Jen – I’m glad to hear that.

Jen: [43:51]

So I want to wrap up by reminding you that Dr. Brown’s book Play: How it Shapes the Brain, Opens the Imagination and Invigorates the Soul, can be purchased in local bookstores or on Amazon. And all the references for today’s show can be found at yourparentingmojo.com/play

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055: Raising Your Spirited Child

Jen Lumanlan — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 21:00:00 +0000

Is your child ‘spirited’? Even if they aren’t spirited all the time, do they have spirited moments? You know exactly what to do in those moments, right?

No?

Well then we have a treat for you today. Dr. Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, author of Raising Your Spirited Child, walks us through the ins and outs of her book on the same topic. Best yet, we do the interview as a consult with a parent, Kathryn, who has read and loved the book, but struggled with implementing the ideas.

Warning: we spend quite a bit of time brainstorming very specific problems that Kathryn is having with her daughter. You may not be having exactly the same problem with your child, but the brainstorming method we use is one you can do with a friend – take the approach with you to address your own problems, rather than the specific ideas.

Read more about Dr. Mary’s books and other work on her website.

Reference

Kurcinka, M.S. (2015). Raising your spirited child (3rd Ed.). New York, NY: William Morrow. (Affiliate link)

Read Full Transcript

Transcript

Jen: [00:39]

Hello and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. I know we’re going to help a lot of parents out today because we are here with Dr. Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, who wrote the book Raising Your Spirited Child, which I know is an absolute classic read for any parent of a spirited child. I read the book because a listener had requested an episode on it and what surprised me about it was that I don’t think my daughter is particularly spirited, but I definitely saw elements of her behavior described in the book and what I took out of that was that probably pretty much any child can have spirited elements of their personality or even just spirited moments. And so both the book and this episode are really for anyone who raises a child and who has ever had a moment where they think, “why won’t he or she just do what I ask.”

Jen: [01:26]

So Dr. Mary has a bachelor’s in early childhood education, a Master’s in family social science, and a doctorate in education. She has written four books on various aspects of raising children, which have been translated into 23 languages. Her son and daughter are now fully fledged adults and she lives with her husband in Bozeman, Montana. Welcome Dr. Mary.

Kathryn: [01:46]

Thank you.

Jen: [01:48]

And so when I mentioned in my fortnightly newsletter, which you can actually receive by subscribing to the show YourParentingMojo.com, that I was looking for a coat interviewer to help me interview Dr Mary and really dig into the ways to apply the wisdom in the book. I received a number of responses, but one really stuck out. Kathryn is based in London and she has a four year old daughter who we’re going to call Jane in this episode and a son who’s a little over a year old and we’re going to call him George.

Jen: [02:14]

I asked Kathryn to help us with this interview because she’d actually read and love the book, but had been struggling with the application of some of the strategies. She’s tried hard to support her spirited daughter as she grows and develops, but has found a particularly challenged in some areas since the birth of her son. So we’re here today to really get into the book, but also go beyond the book and get the real lowdown on how to implement the strategies in the book when the first attempt has maybe been a little bit less than successful. Welcome Kathryn.

Kathryn: [02:41]

Thank you.

Jen: [02:42]

All right. So Kathryn, let’s start with you. I wonder if you could please describe your daughter and how she fits into your family dynamic and I know you’ve read the book so you know that the words that are used to describe spirited children are very important. So what words do you use to describe her and what words do people around you who might not have read the book use?

Kathryn: [03:01]

So after reading the book, I would say that in particular it was the intense and persistent elements that really struck a chord, but also she’s sensitive, very perceptive, a very high energy introvert, I would say. And just very articulate about what she wants, funny, enthusiastic, that kind of thing. And in terms of other peoples, there’s never been so much the label’s put on her I would find, but it’s just kind of when people talk, when they’d see something happening, you know, as if, oh, so and so that I know that they’re spoiled and oh well people don’t treat me like King Tut, or you know, just, it’s more in people’s tone. And I, I noticed as well since her brother was born that it’s more she falls into a particular persona kind of in contrast as the main older sibling almost.

Jen: [03:54]

Is that pretty common? Dr. Kurcinka?

Dr. Mary: [03:57]

As the mean older sibling? Well, certainly one of the things we know about spirited children is their intent. So every emotion is intense, including jealousy, they’re also slow to adapt. So a shift in the family dynamic is certainly going to affect them, but they’re also incredibly perceptive of the stress levels within our family and so often it’s the spirited child who I refer to them as our stress barometers because they’ll often start acting out because they’re taking in the stress around them. And obviously a new baby brings a great deal of stress to a family dynamic.

Jen: [04:42]

Yeah. Do you feel as though that’s really impacted your family dynamic, Kathryn?

Kathryn: [04:46]

Yes, I would say that has made a huge difference because I think, you know, when people talk about age two and age for as being particularly noteworthy in our family, it was really age three. But I think that’s because that was, you know, in the leadup my pregnancy and then the birth of her, her brother, the starting of preschool. So many things kind of happened at that period of time and therefore also our resources were that much less to kind of cope with it. And whereas I had kind of taken everything on with her, largely myself, because I stayed at home, I didn’t go back to work after my maternity leave and had kind of tried to protect her a little bit there because she had very distinct needs as far as I could see it in terms of being a little bit more sensitive to stimulation and to situations and things I had kept her under my wing a little bit in that respect. Whereas I couldn’t obviously do that with a newborn and also just adjusting to letting go a little bit in terms of preschool, you know, and no longer being her whole world anymore. That kind of rattled things a little bit and of course changed the family dynamic quite a bit and then adding an extra person.

Jen: [05:58]

And these are all fairly natural things to happen, right? Brothers and sisters are born and their children tend to go up to some kind of care or preschool or something. Dr. Mary, how can we help children and prepare them for the kinds of transitions that Jane’s been going through?

Dr. Mary: [06:15]

Well, there’s several things. One is, as you said, with the starting preschool, there’s also a change in routine in one of the things I talk about and work with families on in my private consultants, there’s two aspects to effective discipline, there’s structure, which is the routine, the rules, the expectations, they’re the things that remain pretty stable and then there’s the emotion coaching and the challenge with a new baby and starting preschool is the structure gets disrupted and so if you think about it’s kind of like all of a sudden moving or changing jobs or changing bosses at work that all of a sudden there are…what you expected in the past is no longer occurring. Things are different, so in preparing them, one is reforming that structure and creating predictability for them, which will then reduce the frequency and intensity of the meltdowns, leaving you the patience and energy to do the emotion coaching when it needs to be done.

Jen: [07:25]

Yeah, Dr. Mary, you just said something really profound there that helped me to understand the gravity of these kinds of changes in a child’s world. When you talk about being comparable to moving for an adult or changing a boss for an adult, you know, I think if there was a big deal, I need to figure out what a new boss wants for me and how I interact with that person and you know, even as something as simple as changing a child’s teacher at preschool, you might think, well all the other teachers are still there and all the other children is still there, but that’s a very different interaction and it makes me feel as though, oh yeah, I can understand that. I can understand why that would be difficult for a child. Does that help us to bring more compassion to it, do you think?

Dr. Mary: [08:02]

Well, I think it is important to look at that and look at this situation, yes, very compassionately. And that’s another thing that we can do is actually reduced expectations on that older child, which can be hard because it’s like, okay, now you’re the older one and I need to be taking care of the baby. But one of the stress reactions you’ll see is shut down. And shut down behaviors are, I can’t dress myself, I can’t walk, I can’t feed myself, and the natural reaction to those responses are you could do it yesterday or you could do it an hour ago and we push to have them do what they’re capable of doing, but what they’re actually telling us is I’m so overwhelmed, I’m shutting down. And so one thing that we can do as a parent is proactively say to them before they’re demanding, carry me, dress me, feed me, is, “is today a day that you can dress yourself or do you need help?” And if they say I need help, we help them because we recognize, wow, they’re dealing with a lot of stuff here. And so instead of fighting and struggling, we help them, but we also nudge them by saying, okay, you know, today I’ll help you, but pretty soon maybe even tomorrow you’re going to surprise me and do it yourself again. So we let them know we’re not doing this for ever, but we can see that right now, you need a little extra support.

Kathryn: [09:46]

Do you see that dynamic in Jane, Kathryn? Yes, and I think some of those kinds of things about the dressing herself and things like that, that was a little bit easier for me or when we had in meal times the returned to kind of wanting to be fed for a little while or when my son was weaning than wanting to be on our laps as well and so some of that we definitely saw and I think I was used to a little bit more doing things at her own pace beforehand, so that part of it was a little bit easier for me, but I struggled a little bit. I think with things that were just suddenly new in those transitions, so transition around having the new sibling created a kind of a new level to my own intensity. I think in terms of a protectiveness over the small person than she had never shown aggression really before then to see some of those behaviors being targeted towards him specifically rather than wanting to be baby. But something that kind of felt like a bit more of an emergency in the moment kind of thing. That was triggering to me in a way that I hadn’t really been triggered as much in the past,

Dr. Mary: [10:54]

And you’re absolutely right, Kathryn, you know, as a mom who are very protective of our children. It’s kind of the mother bear syndrome and one of the things I think that’s important to recognize, especially with a four year old, four year old and many spirited children, tend to be very bright and have excellent language skills and so we often assume that they have an understanding of things that they don’t because they are so verbal and so when we see behaviors that are potentially dangerous to the baby or a safety issue for the baby, the question becomes what is Jane feeling and needing in this situation? So is it an issue that she actually doesn’t realize, you can’t hug a baby that firmly. And so it’s teaching her how to hold and touch the baby. Is she feeling jealous? So instead of pushing the baby, teaching her to say I want him to go away, and that when she uses the words, we actually at that…because we’re teaching the words at this point, set the baby down and hold her because she used words instead of action. So it’s in those situations stopping to think what is she feeling or needing. Is it a skill issue? Is it a feeling she doesn’t know how to express appropriately. But as a four year old she has no idea that she can harm the baby.

Jen: [12:39]

Wow. I would never have thought that. Wouldn’t you think that if you hit something it might hurt. But no, that’s a very profound realization I think to understand that a four year old can’t think that.

Kathryn: [12:51]

And I think sometimes if there are kind of two elements to it and like for, it’s the intensity piece around just that kind of out of control, excitement/anxiety, kind of that, you know, in the beginning in particular, if I’m trying to spend time just one on one with her to have a little bit of that, she actually would reject that for quite awhile. And she always wanted to know where he was and oh, if he was asleep she wants to be there waking up. Like she just really didn’t want to take her eyes off him. Like really was affectionate to like overzealously affectionate, but you know, in a way you would expect. But just couldn’t. It was like, yeah, simultaneously just out of control, affection and anxiety around the situation that she just couldn’t quite get to grips with, it felt like.

Dr. Mary: [13:42]

And, and I think that’s an interesting choice of words when you say kind of anxiety about it. And again with the energy and that frenzied energy, we look at the fuel source because that frenzied energy is saying she’s overstimulated, she’s over aroused. And so one question I would have is actually about sleep because if the meltdowns are happening like after school or late in the afternoon or that frenzied behavior, that actually is an indication that can be an indication of, oh, we’re tired. So what time does she wake in the morning?

Kathryn: [14:25]

She wakes up about [7:00] usually.

Dr. Mary: [14:27]

And is she napping?

Kathryn: [14:29]

No, and she can’t now because she’s in school.

Dr. Mary: [14:33]

Okay. And what time does she fall asleep at night?

Kathryn: [14:39]

Uh, she’ll be actually asleep by about [8:30].

Dr. Mary: [14:43]

Okay. So if we look at the averages and these are only averages, which means some children will have more, some people less. But this time of the year, the winter, when the nights are long, we actually need more sleep than we do in spring and summer. And for a four year old, the average is right around 12 hours. And especially this time of the year, it’s usually a solid 12 hours. So my question to you is what is she like about [6:30], [7:00] at night?

Kathryn: [15:16]

Yeah. That can be a bit of a difficult time. That’s the window of time as I’m kind of taking her brother up to sleep and yeah, it just depends. That was part of my reason for recently bringing dinnertime forward is because sometimes if we were still eating at that time it would get a bit hectic. So now I’m trying to do it a little bit earlier, but we have had a lot of tweaking with her sleep because that has always been a difficult issue for her. And then when she was napping we couldn’t get her to fall asleep often til like [9:30], [10:00] at night. So we had a really a hard battle when she was dropping the nap because to not have it didn’t seem enough but to have it team too much and we couldn’t quite get it. This has been kind of the most solid in recent times that we’ve had it, that we’re in more of a pattern and she’ll only nap on the weekend, on a rare occasion that we’re in the car or something, but she’s never fallen asleep easily. So it’s the, any routines and things that we have are pretty hard. One, because she, uh, for awhile was falling asleep a little bit earlier, but then it just kinda creeps creeping back and back. So we, we haven’t been able to get it earlier than [8:30].

Dr. Mary: [16:33]

One of the challenges when you have a child that wakes early in the morning is the odds are very high that she’s genetically wired as a morning lark. So morning larks wake early in the morning no matter what time they go to sleep at night. So my first recommendation to you would actually be to look at her day because a good night’s sleep begins in the morning. So she has a [7:00] AM wake up. It would be, you know, wake up dressed, toilet. And I always have kids do that before they leave the bedroom area so that we’re not surprising them. Some days we dress, some days we don’t dress in it. So then it turns into a struggle in the morning. So we dress and then come for breakfast. And then throughout the day I used to work of Ellyn Satter who recommends six mini meals a day. So every two and a half, three hours. So breakfast is at [7:30], then at [9:30], 10-ish. We have a mini meal in the morning, but again each meal is a little protein, little carbohydrate, little fruit and vegetable, a little fat. So it’s a complete mini-eal. Lunch would be 12, 1230 ish. Another snack about mini meals in the afternoon about [3:00], dinner probably [5:30]. And then for her I would probably go right from dinner into prep for sleep so that her head’s on the pillow and the sleep routine is completely finished by [7:00] PM.

Jen: [18:18]

How might that fit with your lifestyle, Kathryn?

Kathryn: [18:22]

That would be a challenge because my husband gets home at [6:30] and my son goes to bed in that window of time and he takes a while these days too.

Jen: [18:32]

So what would you recommend Dr Mary, for people who have more than one child and it’s difficult to get home from work or whatever. You’re doing a lot of a lot of working parents who are probably listening to this and you have to get dinner on the table that you have to get the baby fed, get the baby to bed, get the older child bathed. How can you get all that done by [7:00]?

Dr. Mary: [18:51]

So a couple of things. One would be if dad is coming in at [6:30]. Are you breastfeeding the baby?

Kathryn: [19:00]

I am, yeah. He’s having dinner properly now too. But before bed I do breastfeed him.

Dr. Mary: [19:05]

Okay. So you know, if dad would come in and actually would he be open to participating in the bedtime routine for either that the baby has been breastfed and then he finishes with the baby and you finish with Jane and then you have a meal together at seven with both kids down. So that would be one way. Otherwise we look at putting a nap back in, but it sounds like Jane goes to preschool in the afternoon.

Kathryn: [19:37]

She goes to school, they call it “reception” in the UK, it’s like kindergarten but she started school. So she does whole days at school.

Dr. Mary: [19:44]

And they don’t nap?

Kathryn: [19:48]

No they don’t, no.

Dr. Mary: [19:48]

Okay. We have to get naps back into preschool. I think an important thing is recognizing that right now we’re asking Jane to adapt to the needs of others and she can’t do it and so we have to look at…like, the baby naps. Can we potentially…we might look at shifting the baby’s naps a little bit so he can go down 30 minutes later or you do the routine with both of them. Many people with multiple children go through all the steps of the routine with all the children and then stage it who needs to go first for the last good night and who’s second, who’s third, et cetera and is it feasible to move their meal so that it is closer to a [5:30] meal for them and then you and your husband eat later or he eats later?

Kathryn: [20:51]

That part is fine. That’s. We’ve already started doing actually since my husband has switched jobs and is now getting home later than he used to be. We started eating myself and the kids at [5:30], so that part is fine.

Dr. Mary: [21:05]

What are the steps of Jane’s sleep routine? Do you bathe her then or what?

Kathryn: [21:11]

Usually not at nighttime because I think it mentioned in your book that that can be stimulating for some children and for her that was definitely the case. We had real trouble getting in and out and it really dragged things out a lot so she has that in the morning unless it really needed to be at night and so when we go upstairs it will be just mostly brushing her teeth or going to the bathroom and putting her pajamas on and then she does have bedtime stories. Then the two books that she has from school and then sometimes a couple others depending how long they are, but the story time hasn’t been an issue with transition, so we’ve kept that part at the time. That seems to work well.

Dr. Mary: [21:55]

One of the things, as you talk about the number of books there could be started right after dinner so that say at [6:30] you go up, brush teeth, do the toileting pajamas and we’re down to one book for her and so the baby could be part of that or you could read while you’re nursing?

Kathryn: [22:20]

Multitasking!

Kathryn: [22:24]

She does like the idea of reading with her brother there. He’s wandering all over the place, but she does like having him in the room to read so we could do that. I think a part of them was the couple of them being the school books I’d found that was most part where she’d be more willing to practice the reading a little bit, as opposed to afterschool when I would have ideally had liked to do it. She doesn’t seem to be quite in the frame of mind. So when things are calm without the distractions in the, in the dark, just with the little flashlight kind of thing. We’ve just been having some good success with that lately. But we could try again with moving that to right after school perhaps or playing with that window a bit.

Dr. Mary: [23:03]

Well and after school, as an introvert, she… You were absolutely correct. And recognizing she needs downtime. She’s been socializing all day. She’s been with people and she’s tired and you know, tired physically, but also drained as an introvert. So when she comes home I would again plan that transition home that she gets downtime, gets her… What time do you pick her up?

Kathryn: [23:34]

About [3:30]. We walk home, which, you know, it’s only [4:00] when we get home, even though we live five minutes from the school then we have a bit of an adventure on the way back.

Dr. Mary: [23:47]

Okay. And has she had an afternoon snack when you pick her up?

Kathryn: [23:52]

She does. They have afternoon fruit in the school. You bring your own fruit and they have that at some point in the afternoon, but she is always starving so I do always have something in my pocket for her to eat on the way home.

Dr. Mary: [24:04]

Right. And one of the things I would think about is, you know, bringing a carriage or a stroller of some type so that she can climb in if she doesn’t want to walk or she’s tired, but then she could actually have her snack and just kind of some downtime in the stroller. Does she like to be in the carriage or does she want to walk?

Kathryn: [24:29]

Well, her brother’s in the buggy, in the carriage, but we have a buggy board they call it that she can stand on quite. She quite likes to do that. But if some of her friends are like that, live around us are walking at same time, then she likes to run off with them quite often, but it all just depends if it’s just us and absolutely she wants to stand on the board.

Dr. Mary: [24:49]

Okay. And even with that, is it the kind of thing that she fits in the carriage? If the baby was in a backpack,

Kathryn: [24:59]

I think she’s over the weight limit for it now.

Dr. Mary: [25:02]

Okay.

Jen: [25:04]

What if the baby was in the backpack? I think that’s what Dr Mary was saying.

Kathryn: [25:09]

Uh, yes. No, I mean I think she’s over the weight limit for a buggy itself.

Jen: [25:13]

Oh, your daughter is.

Kathryn: [25:14]

She’s a bit tall for it yet.

Jen: [25:16]

Got It.

Kathryn: [25:17]

Yeah, I’d be a bit conscious of messing with that one because she was jealous about it for a little while as well and we’re past that stage now.

Dr. Mary: [25:24]

So what about when you pick her up at this school, is there a place that you could sit and let her have some protein and something to eat and then begin the walk home?

Kathryn: [25:38]

Not really because they want to shoo us out of the school gates within a window of time. I think she at first gets quite distracted by the other kids that are there. Like if our neighbor is still there, she’s quite wants to find him and ideally walk with him and then on the way then like when she’s standing on the board, she’ll, she’ll eat her cereal bar, whatever it is or banana or something and then when she’s finished that then she’ll run after him quite often.

Dr. Mary: [26:05]

Okay. Well, one of the things I would just make sure that, the snack that you bring for her can includes protein because otherwise what happens then is you get home and not only is fatigued from her day, but we’ve got a blood sugar drop because she hasn’t had her protein and she’s hungry and then that sets up the rest of the afternoon for her. So when you come in the door, what happens once you get home?

Kathryn: [26:35]

So we were having a meltdown, when she got home almost every day for a little while, it’s gotten a little bit better now, but, well, and that’s if it hadn’t happened before we got home and I found actually at first she was really wanting to desperately watch TV and then I found actually that was just kind of keeping the meltdown in check kind of thing. And so after cutting that out, then she’s just, I suppose we’re releasing feelings from the day kind of thing. But is easily set off by lots of thing is really,

Dr. Mary: [27:10]

Would she come home and go into the bathtub?

Kathryn: [27:14]

When I’ve suggested it before, she never wants to see, she finds it calming. That was actually a kind of a stand-out question for me is that she likes a lot of the calming things, but she really resists them. So like if I suggest the bath then she really doesn’t want to go into the bath or if I put calming music on then she said this, this is sad music, happy music and she wants something really lively and some of them…even the things that she does really enjoy, like with her sticker book and Play Doh and things like that, that she can get really engrossed in if it’s put to her when she’s feeling kind of revved up, then she doesn’t want to or does only for few seconds kind of thing but won’t let herself be calmed by it kind of thing.

Dr. Mary: [27:58]

So one of the things I would suggest, because this transition is proving to be a pretty challenging one, is I would create a ritual of pickup and entry that is the same every single day. So it isn’t, do you want a bath today or do you want Play Doh today? But in fact, mommy picks you up. We have the snack, we get on the board, we have this snack. Once we’ve had the snack, then we can play with others if we want to. On the way home. We’d come in the door, she goes into the tub if she’s needs, you know, if that was an incomplete snack, we can have some snacks in the bathtub while she lounges or we just go into the tub, you know, and you sit there. The baby is, they’re not in the tub, but he’s there and obviously we have the bathroom so that it’s okay for him to be wandering there. But we let her have that downtime. If a bath doesn’t work, we might use audio books. The other would be is that we always do Play Doh or water play if we’re not going into the tub. But I would create a ritual that there are decisions to be made that in fact we, if it’s Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we always have this same snack. Tuesday, Thursdays we always have that snack number two. And when we come in the door, we do the same things because at this point she can’t make decisions.

Jen: [29:38]

And that’s not to say the routine couldn’t change when needs change, but that it could be helpful right now. Is that right?

Dr. Mary: [29:44]

Yes.

Jen: [29:45]

Okay.

Kathryn: [29:47]

Yes, I think that’s quite true actually, because if it’s a routine to have that bath every day, then I can see that she’d probably become less resistant to it if it’s always at that time.

Dr. Mary: [29:59]

And when you have a persistent child, the underlying structure and routine is so important because if we surprise them, then we trigger the arousal system and if they’re already drained and we ask them to make decisions, again, that becomes for the introvert who needs to process decisions, again, that’s arousing. And so my tendency is to suggest just very simplistic routines that for the most part stay the same each day. And if you know, if there’s a play date or something, well actually… If she’s been in school all day, I wouldn’t do play dates late afternoon. She’s as an introvert, she’s had enough. But if there’s a doctor’s appointment or something we have to go to, then we prepare her for that, but the rest of the time the days are the same. So she knows what to expect.

Kathryn: [31:04]

And I think I saw the suggestion of visual charts as well, Dr Mary in your book.

Dr. Mary: [31:09]

Absolutely. And those visual charts can be very simple. I will take a piece of copy paper draw like a four to six frame on it, like a cartoon frame and then have the kids actually draw because I am completely artistically challenged and you know, you can do photos, you can download drawings from the internet and certainly make it nicer. But the bottom line is you don’t have to. And so I just let the kids draw one step. So it would be mommy comes to school, we have our snack, we get on the board, we walk home, we take off our coats, put away our coat and our shoes, we go into the tub, we play in the tub, you know. Then maybe we have reading time. That might be. Then she might be ready at that point to do her school books because she’s had some downtime. I might experiment with that. And then we have dinner by [5:30] ish and again maybe a little reading, a little low key play and [6:30]. It’s maybe a bedtime snack. So if daddy comes in the door we have just a little bedtime snack and then it’s toileting teeth, pajamas, one story, kiss, hug, head on the pillow at seven.

Kathryn: [32:37]

All right. And so I want to just kind of bring this back up a level because we’ve been talking about Kathryn’s very specific situation for quite a while and I think what’s important for parents to take out of this is not, well my daughter doesn’t have a meltdown when she gets home from school. How is this relevant to me? But the idea of looking at whatever situation it is that you’re struggling with and brainstorming it and I mean… How many alternatives if we just generate that could potentially shift this routine to get Jane some more sleep. And I, you know, we just thought of this in 10 or 15 minutes. So I think Dr. Mary does actually do consults, so that’s one way of doing it, but maybe resistors could also just call a friend and describe what the situation is and together you could brainstorm different ways that you could adjust the routine to make it better fit your family.

Dr. Mary: [33:27]

That’s a great summation and you know, we have a struggle that we can predict happens every day. Then let’s plan that for success; let’s plan that transition, that’s look at what’s working, what’s not working, and I know Kathryn, you’ve been playing with different options, trying to find things that work and recognizing that and that’s a really good thing. So part of it’s knowing our child. We have an introvert, which is interesting because she recharges as an introvert, but she’s also very social and so she has that mix of “I want to be with my friends, but oh, this is all very exhausting.” And so she’s got that push and pull going on and so we know who we’re working with and then the need for routine and predictability because that’s very calming to children and then protecting the sleep. Because when we have frequent meltdowns, when we have issues with impulse control, the first thing I’m always going to look at is the sleep and the structure because without enough sleep you can’t manage emotions and you can’t control impulses.

Jen: [34:43]

Yeah. And so the other thing that was really clear to me as we’re talking through this is the idea that we’re not trying to fix Jane, we’re not trying to fix a spirited child. We’re looking at the whole family dynamic and how the family works together as a unit. And so I’m wondering if we can spend a little bit of time talking about you, Kathryn, and what you bring to this interaction. So could you tell us a little bit about your temperament and how this either helps or hurts or maybe both your interactions with your daughter?

Kathryn: [35:12]

Sure. So I think I’m quite similar to her actually.

Dr. Mary: [35:18]

I think, well it can be helpful in terms of empathizing. So looking at the words themselves, I suppose the intense, persistent, negative first reaction, sensitivity to noise and emotion, perceptiveness, slow to adapt.

Jen: [35:33]

And these are all words from the book, right?

Dr. Mary: [35:35]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Those all resonate with me as well and so like intensity not I hadn’t noticed as much, but as a child, yes, but you know, in my interactions with her, I hadn’t noticed so much until, as I mentioned, you know, as she was around three-ish that I could feel that element of my personality more so, which is counterproductive in that case. The persistence I think was quite useful and is quite useful I suppose, in sticking to my guns when I know that she needs something and that kind of goes against what other people might find convenient at that moment, you know, so obviously if we’re going to visit family or going to different functions and then that would potentially be interfering with nap times and things like that. That’s something that I’ve really stuck to and just sticking with what works for us, you know, even if that’s parenting her differently than the next person kind of thing, I think have always been willing to be an advocate for her, which she kind of has needed, I felt.

Kathryn: [36:38]

Negative first reaction, that kind of thing, that that can be difficult. Of course when they, if they want to get out all the messy things or you have to be conscious that no, okay, no, that probably isn’t as bad as that idea is that feels right now. And I suppose too like with her suggestions, just the, if something might be slightly inconvenient to just keep that in check, I suppose that to make sure that she was getting all the opportunities to explore her own curiosities and things as a toddler than that was, became more relevant and with a sensitivity, with noise and stuff, obviously if, when she’s had intense reactions is the picture of a supreme, for example. It’s something that I haven’t really found hard to keep calm over with that. That’s been a growth point for me, to try to breathe through that.

Jen: [37:29]

Love it! Dr Mary, I imagine that Kathryn is not alone in feeling that intense feeling when a young child screams?

Dr. Mary: [37:43]

Absolutely not. And there’s you talk about that you’re very similar to your daughter and as you said, the asset of that, as you can really empathize with her, the challenge is the same things that are triggering her are triggering you. So if you think about the pickup at school and anyone who’s picking up children at school knows it’s chaotic, it’s noisy, there’s people, there’s cars, there’s all of these things happening and things are coming at you from all different directions. And so as you think about that for yourself, it’s a challenging situation for you on a sensory level and also on an adaptability level of kind of knowing what to expect. And so the part of having that kind of ritual of what you do despite what’s going on around you, you may actually find calming for you as well as for Jane and while I’m all for walking and I absolutely love walking and live so I can walk, but I almost wonder in this situation, do you have access to a car?

Kathryn: [38:57]

We do, but where I would have to park would be just about as far as where we live.

Jen: [39:04]

Since you’re in in London.

Dr. Mary: [39:06]

Yeah. Okay. Is that, you know, my thought would be is if you could pick her up, get her in the car, drive away, be home in five minutes and go out later for a walk. Again, that might be an alternative, but it sounds like it’s not in this situation. And Jen as you, as you said, I think the important thing, and I always say this again in the consult is whatever recommendations we come up with, it has to work for your family and your situation. So it is addressing what do we need to make this transition calming for everyone that works in our situation. And the answer to that…there’s 10 different answers to that and the answers may vary between families as well.

Jen: [39:57]

Yeah, for sure. And so we were talking a bit about the screaming and I’m wondering because I really think this is not unique. I wonder Kathryn, if you can maybe describe a recent example of something that triggered you and maybe it was a screaming, maybe it was something else that is even more triggering to you than that. And can we just kinda talk through that and what are the strategies you could try in the future?

Kathryn: [40:19]

So I suppose the screaming, I mean that’s been something that has started right from infancy that she’s just always had a very strong frustrated reaction since very early but also like then as she got older with disappointments and, and so forth, or to interrupt with a scream that because it’s so triggering, find a don’t respond as well as I would like to. So I do try to reframe the emotion or you know, oh I can see you’re trying to do this and this is frustrating and so forth. As it continues, I hear that you don’t need to scream and scream. You don’t need to scream and scream and you think, oh, I don’t know how much am I sounding like I’m trying to suppress the emotion. Like is at four, is that still like crying? Is that still something that she’s doing right by expressing that or I suppose I’m not sure that I’m talking to her about that in the right way to teach her that to scream because she’s angry or screaming because she’s frustrated isn’t socially appropriate, but versus, oh well she’s four and also an adult doesn’t cry at everything, but it’s fine for a four year old to be crying over things like that in the wider range of contexts. And so yeah, that has been a bit of a struggle for me to kind of figure out in the moment how best to respond to that.

Dr. Mary: [41:47]

Well, again, we always have to look at what’s behind the scream. So let’s take for example, frustration. So she screams when she gets frustrated and one of the things we know as an adult is there’s times we’d like to scream when we’re frustrated. For the most part, we have learned other strategies we’ve learned to ask for help, to step away, to take a break, to take a deep breath. And for a four year old we can very… What I would do is like if there’s a toy that she plays with that frequently frustrates her or her brother is getting in her space, which we didn’t talk about that earlier, but there are kind of key times where sibling issues increase and one of them is when the baby starts getting into the older child space, it’s very upsetting to them. So the bottom line is when she’s calm is you say to her, you know what you’re feeling, so you do a redo, and a redo helps her understand what she was feeling.

Dr. Mary: [42:57]

So you were playing with the magnetic blocks and they collapsed or you’re using the crayon and your brother grabbed it. What that’s called is frustration and when we’re frustrated the next time you’re frustrated, I want you to say help and I will come and help you. So we don’t even need to say “you don’t need to scream.” I mean you could say that, but some of the spirit of kids, if you kind of review the mistake, then they just get upset again. So we just say when it’s called frustration, when you get frustrated, you can yell help. And I will come and help you, let’s try that. And you actually role play with them. The situation, like you pretend that she’s coloring and then you take the crayon like the brother would and then you have her practice saying help. And if she says, I don’t want to say it, you can say to her, would you like to listen while I say it so then you say it and then remind her that next time, that’s what you expect her to say. And so we get to a situation, she starts to scream, now we can say, Jane, remember what do we say? Help and I will help you. But the teaching has to be afterward when she’s called. It can’t be in the heat of that moment.

Kathryn: [44:29]

Yes. I think that’s probably where I’m going wrong. I think when I’m following it up to, I think I’m not waiting long enough.

Dr. Mary: [44:36]

Which is another thing is teaching kids what it means to be calm. And in Raising Your Spirited Child. I also talk about having calming baskets. So if you know that going out the door, sometimes it’s upsetting for your child and you’re trying to take care of the baby, get the baby ready and she starts to fall apart about her coat is you have right at the door, a calming basket and the basket. She’s helped you select lovies, stuffed animals, books, you know, something that she enjoys and you say to her, you know, go to your soothing, calming basket. I need to take care of the baby. I will come back and help you. And so it’s right there. And so it’s not a punishment, it’s not isolating her. It’s here; take a break, get your stuffed animal, get your lovey and I will come back as soon as I can. And then we teach them that they stay at that calming basket until their voice is quiet. Their limbs are still, their jaw is relaxed. That’s a calm body. And if we’re not calm yet, we stay at our calming basket.

Jen: [45:54]

And should Kathryn be with Jane there at the calming basket so that it feels more inclusive and like a time in rather than like a time out?

Dr. Mary: [46:04]

Well the basket’s right there. At the door so you know it’s maybe to the side so that you’ve got room to be doing what you need to do with the baby,

Jen: [46:14]

But you are right there.

Dr. Mary: [46:15]

You are right there.

Jen: [46:16]

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Dr. Mary: [46:18]

And you can have one in the kitchen. You can have one in the bathroom, you can have one in the bedroom, you can have 10 of them in your house so that it’s not isolating they’re right there where you need them. Okay.

Kathryn: [46:32]

I suppose it provides a bit of a visual reminder as well. I think sometimes where if I’ve suggested an activity with the purpose of it being calming, there’s kind of push back against it, but if she stumbles across something on her own then has more of an interest in it, so to have things that she could spot all over the place is possibly a good idea there.

Jen: [46:57]

Yeah. That could be a powerful one for you,

Dr. Mary: [47:02]

Kathryn. As you said too, it’s kind of the messy things can sometimes be a trigger for you of like, I can’t deal with this right now. You also can establish in your day at a time for messy toys like you know, mornings are good for us to do that or Saturday, these are good to do for us and otherwise it’s not time for those because it… Like if you’re trying to get dinner and she’s doing something messy and the baby’s trying to get in it, now everybody’s stress level goes up instead of being a positive. This is actually fueling the situation so you can establish again, predictable, messy activity times. So both you and Jane know when to expect them.

Kathryn: [47:54]

Yes. That’s a good point.

Jen: [47:56]

Great. Well I know we’re almost out of time here. I think we could probably talk for another three hours about this. Kathryn, is there one more burning question that you just have to ask before we wrap up?

Kathryn: [48:07]

I suppose the one and only thing in terms of limits that has just always been a curiosity for me is that I’ve always in a meltdown situation, I’ve never wanted to leave her with the meltdown and so when that’s happened at bedtime, if it’s I’ll stay with you as long as you’re lying down and quietly kind of thing. If my leaving, if she got up kind of thing, would then trigger a meltdown and I don’t want to leave her in the meltdown. Is there a suggestion around how to handle that kind of a scenario?

Dr. Mary: [48:42]

Well, two things I would say first is if we’re having regular meltdowns at bedtime, we’re putting her to bed at the wrong time and probably too late, so on a proactive basis I would be tweaking the bedtime routine and probably moving it earlier. If this is an unusual thing. So the routine has been going well and all of a sudden tonight she suddenly is losing it, then that’s the great thing about an effective routine is now you know that something’s up. You know, she’s coming down with something, something stressed her today and she’s needing more soothing, calming, and so we’ll provide it. Now with that, one of the things in, you know, I would say to her, Jane, I will stay. I will help you. You need to lay down. Sometimes our presence is actually too stimulating. And again, I’m not going to scare a child.

Dr. Mary: [49:47]

I’m not going to isolate them. And so what I’ll do is say, okay, I’m gonna move my chair to the door so you can still see me and I’m still here and if you want me to be closer than you lie on your bed and we just wait for her to kind of calm and then lie on her bed and then we’ll come back. So she learns that her behavior, she can choose to have you closer, but you’re not abandoning her. You’re not going out of sight from her.

Kathryn: [50:20]

Okay.

Dr. Mary: [50:21]

Does that make sense?

Kathryn: [50:23]

Yeah. So that’s a good suggestion. Thank you.

Dr. Mary: [50:26]

And I’d like to as we close one is to affirm Kathryn, how well you know Jane than just your sensitivity to her, your awareness of her temperament. And how you have worked to meet her needs according to that temperament and it’s taken a lot of energy and it’s taken skill and educating yourself and I just want to recognize and commend you for that.

Kathryn: [50:57]

Thank you.

Jen: [50:58]

Go Kathryn! And thanks also for being willing to share your story with us. I know it’s not the easiest to air your laundry, is it on a podcast? But I’m grateful to you.

Kathryn: [51:10]

Well thank you so much.

Jen: [51:10]

Yeah, and also to Dr Mary for being willing to talk through these issues with us and really give us some concrete tools. Yes, specifically for the afterschool meltdown if that’s what you’re going through, but also, you know, don’t be afraid to extrapolate these to a higher level and saying, okay, how can I brainstorm things that work for me with the things that I’m struggling with, with my child. So thanks Dr Mary for doing that.

Dr. Mary: [51:30]

You’re welcome. Thank you for inviting me.

Jen: [51:33]

So Dr. Mary’s Book Raising Your Spirited Child can be purchased in local bookstores or on Amazon. And as a reminder, all the references for today’s show can be found at YourParentingMojo.com/SpiritedChild

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054: Three reasons not to say “You’re OK!”

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 21:00:00 +0000

“I hear parents on the playground all the time saying “You’re OK!” after their child falls over. Often it does make the child stop crying…but doesn’t it invalidate the child’s feelings?”

It turns out that this question is related to a skill that psychologists call emotional regulation, and learning how to regulate emotions is one of the most important tasks of childhood.

This to-the-point episode is a trial of a shorter form of episode after listeners told me this show is “very dense.” It’s hard to back off the density, but I can back off the length. Let me know (via email or the Contact Me, page – not the comments on this episode because I get inundated with spam) what you think…

Other episodes referenced in this show

How parenting affects children’s development

How divorce impacts children’s development

How to scaffold children’s learning

Jump to highlights

01:45 The question that sparked this episode: does saying “you’re okay” invalidate a child’s feelings?

02:14 The three ways children learn emotional regulation, and why this episode focuses on direct teaching

03:31 Why is emotional regulation important: well-being, friendships, and academic achievement

04:49 How cultural values around autonomy shape whether “you’re okay” fits or clashes

07:50 How emotional regulation develops with age, from infancy through toddlerhood

10:36 Four practical steps for handling a fall at the playground without saying “you’re okay”

References

Brookshire, B. (2013, May 8). Psychology is WEIRD: Western college students are not the best representatives of human emotion, behavior, and sexuality. Slate. Retrieved from www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/05/weird_psychology_social_science_researchers_rely_too_much_on_western_college.html

Duncan, L.G., Coatsworth, J.D., & Greenberg, M.T. (2009). A model of mindful parenting: Implications for parent-child relationships and prevention research. Clinical Child & Family Psychology Review 12, 255-270.

Keane, S.P., & Calkins, S.D. (2004). Predicting kindergarten peer social status from toddler and preschool problem behavior. Journal of Abnormal Child Psychology 32(4), 409-423.

Kopystynska, O., Paschall, K.W., Barnett, M.A., & Curran, M.A. (2017). Patterns of interparental conflict, parenting, and children’s emotional insecurity: A person-centered approach. Journal of Family Psychology 31(7), 922-932.

Roemer, L., Williston, S.K., & Rollins, L.G. (2015). Mindfulness and emotion regulation. Current Opinion in Psychology 3, 52-57.

Rotenberg, K.J., & Eisenberg, N. (1997). Developmental differences in the understanding of and reaction to others’ inhibition of emotional expression. Developmental Psychology 33(3), 526-537.

Sasser, T.R., Bierman, K.L., & Heinrichs, B. (2015). Executive functioning and school adjustment: The mediational role of pre-kindergarten learning-related behaviors. Early Childhood Research Quarterly 30(A), 70-79.

Swain, J.E., Kim, P., & Ho, S.S. (2011). Neuroendocrinology of parental response to baby-cry. Journal of Neuroendochrinology 23(11), 1036-1041.

Trommsdorff, G. (2010). Preschool girls’ distress and mothers’ sensitivity in Japan and Germany. European Journal of Developmental Psychology 7(3), 350-370.

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051: How to handle social exclusion

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 22:00:00 +0000

“I don’t want to play with you.”

“You’re not my friend.”

“We’re playing families. If you want to play, you have to be the dog.”

Seems like everyone can remember a time when something like this happened to them as a child, and how much it hurt. Children still say these things to each other – and we see how much it hurts them, too. When researchers ask them, every child can remember a time when they were excluded – yet no child ever reports being the excluder!

One of my listeners recommended that I read the book You Can’t Say You Can’t Play, in which the author (who is a teacher) proposes and then introduces a rule that you can’t say “you can’t play.” A few researchers (including Professor Jamie Ostrov, with whom we’ll talk today) have since tested the approach: does it work? If not, what should we do instead?

Since most of these situations occur in preschool and school, teacher Caren co-interviews Professor Ostrov with me: we have some great insights for teachers as well as lots of information for parents on how to support both children and teachers in navigating these difficult situations.

Dr. Professor Jamie Ostrov’s Book

The development of relational aggression – Affiliate link

References

Allen, S.S. (2014). Narratives of women who suffered social exclusion in elementary school. Unpublished Ph.D dissertation. Antioch University, Culver City, CA

DeVooght, K., Daily, S., Darling-Churchill, K., Temkin, D., Novak, B.A., & VanderVen, K. (2015, August). Bullies in the block area: The early childhood origins of “mean” behavior. Child Trends. Retrieved from https://www.childtrends.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2015-31BulliesBlockArea.pdf

Haney, M., & Bissonnette, V. (2011). Teachers’ perceptions about the use of play to facilitate development and teach prosocial skills. Creative Education 2(1), 41-46.

Helgeland, A., & Lund, I. (2016). Children’s voices on bullying in kindergarten. Early Childhood Education Journal 45(1), 133-141.

Ostrov, J.M., Gentile, D.A., & Crick, N.R. (2006). Media exposure, aggression and prosocial behavior during early childhood: A longitudinal study. Social Development 15(4), 612-627.

Ostrov, J.M, Godleski, S.A., Kamper-DeMarco, K.E., Blakely-McClure, S.J., & Celenza, L. (2015). Replication and extension of the early childhood friendship project: Effects on physical and relational bullying. School Psychology Review 44(4), 445-463.

Ostrov, J.M., Murray-Close, D., Godleski, S.A., & Hart, E.J. (2013). Prospective associations between forms and functions of aggression and social and affective processes during early childhood. Journal of Experimental Child Psychology 116(1), 19-36.

Perry, K.J., & Ostrov, J.M. (2017). Testing a bifactor model of relational and physical aggression in early childhood. Journal of Psychopathology & Behavioral Assessment. Online first. doi 10.1007/s10862-017-9623-9

Swit, C. S., McMaugh, A. L., & Warburton, W. A. (2017). Teacher and parent perceptions of relational and physical aggression during early childhood. Journal of Child and Family Studies, 1-13. DOI: 10.1007/s10826-017-0861-y

Werner, N. E., Eaton, A. D., Lyle, K., Tseng, H., & Holst, B. (2014). Maternal social coaching quality interrupts the development of relational aggression during early childhood. Social Development 23, 470-486. doi: 10.1111/sode.12048

Weyns, T., Verschueren, K., Leflot, G., Onghena, P., Wouters, S., & Colpin, H. (2017). The role of teacher behavior in children’s relational aggression development: A five-wave longitudinal study. Journal of School Psychology 64, 17-27. doi: 10.1007/s10826-017-0861-y

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041: Siblings: Why do they fight, and what can we do about it?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 18 Jun 2017 21:00:00 +0000

Hot on the heels of our last episode on whether only children really are as bad as their reputation, this week’s episode is for the 80% of families (in the U.S., at least) who have more than one child.

How do siblings impact each other’s development? What should we make of the research on how birth order impacts each child? Why the heck do siblings fight so much, and what can we do about it? (Turns out that siblings in non-Western countries actually don’t fight anywhere near as much…)

We cover all this and more with my guest, Professor Susan McHale of Penn State University.

Note: Professor McHale mentions a helpful book written by Judy Dunn at the end of the episode but doesn’t specifically name the title; Dunn has actually written a number of books on siblings, which can be found here.

References

Bjerkedal, T., Kristensen, P., Skjeret, G.A., & Brevik, J.I. (2007). Intelligence test scores and birth order among young Norwegian men (conscripts) analyzed within and between families. Intelligence 35, 503-514.

Branje, S.J.T., van Lieshout, C.F.M., van Aken, M.A.G., & Haselager, G.J.T. (2004). Perceived support in sibling relationships and adolescent development. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 45(8), 1385-1396.

Dixon, M., Reyes, C.J., Leppert, M.F., & Pappas, L.M. (2008). Personality and birth order in large families. Personality and Individual Differences 44, 119-128.

Dunn, J., & Kendrick, C. (1980). The arrival of a sibling: Changes in patterns of interaction between mother and first-born child. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 21, 119-132.

Dunn, J. (1995). From one child to two: What to expect, how to cope, and how to enjoy your growing family. New York, NY: Ballantine.

Feinberg, M.E., Solmeyer, A.R., Hostetler, M.L., Sakuma K-L, Jones, D., & McHale, S.M. (2012). Siblings are special: Initial test of a new approach for preventing youth behavior problems. Journal of Adolescent Health 53, 166-173.

Healey, M.D., & Ellis B.J. (2007). Birth order, conscientiousness, and openness to experience: Tests of the family-niche model of personality using a within-family methodology. Evolution and Human Behavior 28, 55-59.

Jensen, A.C., & McHale, S.M. (2015). What makes siblings different? The development of sibling differences in academic achievement and interests. Journal of Family Psychology 29(3), 469-478.

Kristensen, P. & Bjerkedal, T. (2007). Explaining the relation between birth order and intelligence. Science (New Series), 316(5832), 1717.

Lawson, D.W., & Mace, R. (2008). Sibling configuration and childhood growth in contemporary British Families. International Journal of Epidemiology 37, 1408-1421.

McHale, S.M., Bissell, J., & Kim, J-Y. (2009). Sibling relationship, family, and genetic factors in sibling similarity in sexual risk. Journal of Family Psychiatry 23(4), 562-572.

McHale, S.M., Updegraff, K.A., Helms-Erikson, H., & Crouter, A.C. (2001). Sibling influences on gender development in middle childhood and early adolescence: A longitudinal study. Developmental Psychology 37(1), 115-125.

McHale, S.M., Updegraff, K.A., & Whiteman, S.D. (2012). Sibling relationships and influences in childhood and adolescence. Journal of Marriage and Family 75(5), 913-930.

Palhaus, D.L., Wehr, P., & Trapnell, P.D. (2000). Resolving controversy over birth order and personality: By debate or by design? Politics and the Life Sciences 19(2), 177-179.

Rohrer, J.M., Egloff, B., & Schmukle, S.C. (2015). Examining the effects of birth order on personality. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 112(46), 14224-14229.

Solmeyer, A.R., McHale, S.M., & Crouter, A.C. (2014). Longitudinal associations between sibling relationship qualities and risky behavior across adolescence. Developmental Psychology 50(2), 600-610.

Updegraff, K.A., McHale, S.M., Killoren, S.E., & Rodriguez, S.A. (2011). Cultural variations in sibling relationships. In J. Caspi (Ed.), Sibling Development: Implications for Mental Health Practitioners. New York, NY: Springer.

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040: Only children: Are they as bad as advertised?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 21:00:00 +0000

Today’s episode comes to us as a result of a listener named Sylvia who wrote to me saying she and her partner don’t want another child but are worried about the potential impact on their daughter of growing up without siblings. But why would there be a potential impact?

Turns out there’s a slew of information in the popular press about how only children grow up with no way to learn social skills, which makes them simply awful to be around. And everybody agrees – from parents of multiples and children who grew up with siblings, to parents of only children and even only children themselves – that only children are more selfish and not as nice to spend time with as children who grew up with siblings.

No wonder Sylvia is worried!

Personally I don’t have this problem; my own selfishness about not wanting a second child has overridden the issue of growing up without siblings to the extent that I had actually never considered it a potential problem until I received the question. But having pondered it and found that there is some research on it, I decided the time was ripe to find out whether only children really are as awful as popular wisdom says they are and, if so, what I could do about it before it’s too late!

Listen up, my friends. Will I be vindicated, or will I throw away that pack of birth control pills before the end of the episode?

References

Bohannon, E.W. (1896). A study of peculiar and exceptional children. Pedagogical Seminary 4(1), 3-60.

Falbo, T. (2012). Only children: An updated review. The Journal of Individual Psychology 68(1), 38-49.

Fenton, N. (1928). The only child. Pedagogical Seminary and Journal of Genetic Psychology 35, 546-556.

Mancillas, A. (2006). Challenging the stereotypes about only children: A review of the literature and implications for practice. Journal of Counseling and Development 84(3), 268-275.

McKibben, B. (1998). Maybe one. New York, NY: Simon & Schuster.

Nachman, P., & Thompson, A. (1997). You and your only child: The joys, myths, and challenges of raising an only child. New York, NY: Skylight.

Newman, S. (2001). Parenting an only child: The joys and challenges of raising your one and only. New York, NY: Broadway.

Polit, D.F., Nuttall, R.L., & Nuttall, E.V. (1980). The only child grows up: A look at some characteristics of adult only children. Family Relations 29(1), 99-106.

Roberts, L., & Blanton, P. (2001). “I always knew mom and dad loved me best”: Experiences of only children. Journal of Individual Psychology 21, 155-160.

Sandler, L. (2013). One and only: The freedom of having an only child, and the joy of being one. New York, NY: Simon & Schuster.

Simon, R.W. (2008). The joys of parenthood, reconsidered. Contexts 7(2), 40-45.

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039: What to do when your toddler says “No, I don’t wanna…!”

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 21 May 2017 21:00:00 +0000

It’s no secret that I do some episodes of the podcast altruistically for you, dear listeners, because I’m not facing the situation that I’m studying – or at least not yet. (Eyebrows were raised in our house when I started researching the impact of divorce on children but luckily for me I don’t need that episode…yet…)

But today’s episode is for me, and you guys are just along for the ride. Because, friends, we are in the thick of what I now know to be called “oppositional defiance,” otherwise known as “Noooo! I don’t wanna [insert activity here]”. We’ll discuss why toddlers are defiant, and lots of strategies we can use to deal with that defiance and even head it off at the pass. If your child has ever said “No!” to something you want them to do, this episode is for you!

Other episodes mentioned:

References

Dix, T., Stewart, A.D., Gershoff, E.T., & Day, W.T. (2007). Autonomy and children’s reactions to being controlled: Evidence that both compliance and defiance may be positive markers in early development. Child Development 78(4), 1204-1221.

Dunn, J., & Munn, P. (1986). Sibling quarrels and maternal intervention: Individual differences in understanding aggression. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 27, 583-595. doi: 10.1111/j.1469-7610.1986.tb00184.x

Eyberg, S. M., Nelson, M. M., & Boggs, S. R. (2008). Evidence-based psychosocial treatments for children and adolescents with disruptive behavior. Journal of Clinical Child and Adolescent Psychology, 37, 215-237. doi: 10.1080/15374410701820117

Grolnick, W.S. (2012). The relations among parental power assertion, control, and structure. Human Development 55, 57-64. DOI: 10.1159/000338533

Grusec, J. E. (2012). Socialization and the role of power assertion. Human Development, 55, 52-56. doi: 10.1159/000337963

Kaler, S. R., & Kopp, C. B. (1990). Compliance and comprehension in very young toddlers. Child Development, 61, 1997-2003. doi: 10.2307/1130853

Knowles, S.J. (2014). The effectiveness of mother’s disciplinary reasoning in response to toddler noncompliance (Unpublished doctoral dissertation). Oklahoma State University. Full copy available at: https://shareok.org/bitstream/handle/11244/25670/Knowles_okstate_0664D_13688.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Kuczynski, L. (1984). Socialization goals and mother-child interaction: Strategies for long-term and short-term compliance. Developmental Psychology 20(6), 1061-1073.

Langer, E., Blank, A., & Chanowitz, B. (1978). The mindlessness of Ostensibly Thoughtful Action: The Role of “Placebic” Information in Interpersonal Interaction. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 36(6), 635-642.

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037: Generation Me

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 07 May 2017 21:00:00 +0000

This episode is on a topic that I find fascinating – the cultural issues that underlie our parenting. I actually think this issue is so important that I covered it in episode 1 of the podcast, which was really the first episode after the introductory one where I gave some information on what the show was going to be about.

But recently I read a book called Generation Me (Affiliate link) by Jean Twenge, a Professor of Psychology at San Diego State University, which discusses some of the cultural contexts that have led to the generation of people born since 1970 to develop a certain set of characteristics that sometimes seem very strange to those who were born before us, and may be leading us to raise children who are just a bit too individualistic.

In this episode I discuss some of those characteristics and what implications they have for the way we parent our own children, and offer some thoughts on how we can shift that our approach if we decide we want to.

Other episodes referenced in this show:

References

Abeles, V., & Rubenstein, G. (2015). Beyond measure: Rescuing an overscheduled, overtested, underestimated generation. New York: Simon & Schuster.

Associated Press (2005, July 22^nd). White House footwear fans flip-flop kerfuffle. US News on NBCNews.com. Retrieved from: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8670164/ns/us_news/t/white-house-footwear-fans-flip-flop-kerfuffle/#.WO_bH_nyvIU

Gardner, H. (1991). The unschooled mind: How children think and how schools should teach. New York: Basic Books.

Lansbury, J. (2012, May 3). Setting limits with toddlers: The choices they can’t make. Retrieved from: http://www.janetlansbury.com/2012/05/setting-limits-with-toddlers-the-choices-they-cant-make/

McCabe, D.L., Trevino, L.K., & Butterfield, K.D. (2012). Cheating in college: Why students do it and what educators can do about it. Baltimore, MD: Johns Hopkins University Press.

Remley, A. (1998, October). From obedience to independence. Psychology Today, 56-59.

Thomas, E. (1997). Social Insecurity. Newsweek. Retrieved from: http://www.newsweek.com/social-insecurity-171878

Trinkaus, J. (1988). Compliance with a school zone speed limit: Another look. Perceptual and motor skills 87, 673-674.

Trinkaus, J. (1997). Stop sign compliance: A final look. Perceptual and Motor Skills 85, 217-218.

Trinkaus, J. (2006). Honesty when lighting votive candles in church: Another look. Psychological Reports 99, 494-495.

Twenge, J. (2014). Generation Me: While today’s young Americans are more confident, assertive, and entitled – and more miserable than ever before. New York, NY: Atria. (Affiliate link)

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032: Free to learn

Jen Lumanlan — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 22:59:00 +0000

Professor Peter Gray was primarily interested in the motivations and emotions of animals before his son Scott started struggling in school, at which point Professor Gray’s interests shifted to developing our understanding of self-directed learning and how play helps us to learn. He has extensively studied the learning that occurs at the Sudbury Valley School in Sudbury Valley, MA – where children are free to associate with whomever they like, don’t have to take any classes at all, and yet go on college and to satisfying lives as adults. How can this possibly be? We’ll find out.

Reference

Gray, P (2013). Free to learn: Why unleashing the instinct to play will make our children happier, more self-reliant, and better students for life. New York, NY: Basic Books. (Affiliate link)

Also see Professor Gray’s extensive posts on learning and education on the Psychology Today blog.

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029: Why we shouldn’t ban war play

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 12 Mar 2017 23:23:00 +0000

This episode comes to us by way of a suggestion from my friend Jess, who told me she had joined an outing with some children in her three-year-old son’s preschool class. She said some of the slightly older children were running around playing that their hands were guns and shooting at each other, and the teachers were pretty much just ignoring it, which really shocked her. So I thought to myself “I bet some smart person has done some research on this” and so I went out and found us just such a smart person to talk with.

Diane E. Levin, Ph.D. is Professor of Education at Wheelock College in Boston, Massachusetts where she has been training early childhood professionals for over twenty-five years. She teaches courses on play, violence prevention, action research. Her book, The War Play Dilemma, provides a theoretical view of why children engage in war play and how parents and teachers can support the development that occurs when children engage in this kind of play – and do it in a way that doesn’t make us feel queasy.

Dr. Diane E. Levin’s Book

The war play dilemma: What every parent and teacher needs to know – Affiliate link

References

Dunn, J. & Hughes, C. (2001). “I got some swords and you’re dead!”: Violent fantasy, antisocial behavior, friendship, and moral sensibility in young children. Child Development 72(2), 491-505.

Fehr, K.K. & Russ, S.W. (2013). Aggression in pretend play and aggressive behavior in the classroom. Early Education and Development 24, 332-345. DOI: 10.1080/10409289.2012.675549

Ferguson, C.J. (2007). Evidence for publication bias in video game violence effects literature: A meta-analytic review. Aggression & Violent Behavior 57, 348-364.

Hart, J.L., & Tannock, M.T. (2013). Young children’s play fighting and use of war toys. Encyclopedia on Early Childhood Development. Retrieved from: http://www.child-encyclopedia.com/play/according-experts/young-childrens-play-fighting-and-use-war-toys

Holland, P. (203). We don’t play with guns here: War, weapon and superhero play in the early years. Maidenhead, UK: Open University Press

Levin, D.E. & Carlsson-Paige, N. (2006). The war play dilemma: What every parent and teacher needs to know (2^nd Ed.). New York, NY: Teachers College Press.

Lober R., Lacourse, E., & Homimsh, D.L. (2005). Homicide, violence, and developmental trajectories. In R.E. Tremblay, W.W. Hartup, & J. Archer (Eds.), Developmental origins of aggression. New York, NY: Guilford Press.

Teachers Resisting Unhealthy Children’s Entertainment (n.d.). Website. http://www.truceteachers.org

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028: How do children form social groups?

Jen Lumanlan — Mon, 06 Mar 2017 00:06:00 +0000

This episode is part of a series on understanding the intersection of race, privilege, and parenting. Click here to view all the items in this series.

How social groups are formed has profound implications for what we teach our children about our culture.

Professor Yarrow Dunham of Yale University tells us how we all group people in our heads according to criteria that we think are important – in many cases it’s a valuable tool that allows us to focus our mental energy. But when we look at ideas like race and gender, we see that we tend to classify people into these groups based on criteria that may not actually be useful at all.

This episode will shed further light on Episode 6, “Wait, is my toddler racist?” and will lay the groundwork for us to study groupings based on gender in an upcoming episode.

References

Baron, A.S. & Dunham, Y. (2015). Representing “Us” and “Them”: Building blocks of intergroup cognition. Journal of Cognition and Development 16(5), 780-801. DOI: 10.1080/15248372.2014.1000459

Baron, A.S., Dunham, Y., Banaji, M., & Carey, S. (2014). Constraints on the acquisition of social category concepts. Journal of Cognition and Development 15(2), 238-268. DOI: 10.1080/15248372.2012.742902

Dunham, Y., Baron, A.S., & Carey, S. (2011). Consequences of “minimal” group affiliations in children. Child Development 82(3), 793-811. DOI: 10.1111/j.1467-8624.2011.01577.x

Dunham, Y., Chen, E.E., & Banaji, M.R. (2013). Two signatures of implicit intergroup attitudes: Developmental invariance and early enculturation. Psychological Science Online First. DOI: 10.1177/0956797612463081

Dunham, Y., Stepanova, E.V., Dotsch, R., & Todorov, A. (2015). The development of race-based perceptual categorization: Skin color dominates early category judgments. Developmental Science 18(3), 469-483. DOI: 10.1111/desc.12228

Rhodes, M., Leslie, S-J, Saunders, K., Dunham, Y., & Cimpian, A. (In Press). How does social essentialism affect the development of inter-group relations? Developmental Science. Retrieved from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306482087_How_does_social_essentialism_affect_the_development_of_inter-group_relations

Richter, N., Over, H., & Dunham, Y. (2016). The effects of minimal group membership on young preschoolers’ social preferences, estimates of similarity, and behavioral attribution. Collabra 2(1), p.1-8. DOI: : 10.1525/collabra.44

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026: Is my child lying to me? (Hint: Yes!)

Jen Lumanlan — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 06:06:00 +0000

Your kids don’t lie, right? And if they did, you’d be able to tell, right?

News flash: they do. And you probably can’t.

Dr. Kang Lee – who is one of the world’s experts in lying – tells us why children lie, how we can (try to) reduce the incidence of lying, and how we should handle it when we catch our children in a lie.

And here’s the one story that Dr. Lee says can help to prevent your child from lying…

Dr. Kang Lee’s Book

Children and lying: A century of scientific research – Affiliate link

Reference

Dr. Lee’s TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/kang_lee_can_you_really_tell_if_a_kid_is_lying

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024: How (and when) does my child understand fairness?

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 05 Feb 2017 22:00:00 +0000

We talked a while ago about sharing, and how you can understand the developmental processes that your child needs to go through before s/he truly understands what it means to share.

One of the inputs to sharing behavior is an understanding of what is fair, and Drs. Peter Blake and Katie McAuliffe talk us through what we know about what children understand about fairness. This episode will help you to understand how much of the idea of fairness is naturally culturally transmitted to children and what you can do to encourage a sense of fairness in your child, which is important for their own social well-being and for the benefit of our society – this has implications for ideas like the development of perceptions about race and gender that we’ll be talking more about in upcoming episodes.

References

Blake, P.R., Corbit, J., Callaghan, T.C., & Warneken, F. (2016). Give as I give: Adult influence on children’s giving in two cultures. Journal of Experimental Child Psychology 152, 149-160. DOI: 10.1016/j.jecp.2016.07.010

Blake, P.R., McAuliffe, K., Corbit, J., Callaghan, T.C., Barry, O, Bowie, A., Kleutsch, L., Kramer, K.L., Ross, E., Vongsachang, H., Wrangham, R., & Warneken, F. (2015). The ontogeny of fairness in seven societies. Nature 528, 258-261. DOI:10.1038/nature15703

Blake, P.R., Rand, D.G., Tingley, D., & Warneken, F. (2015). The shadow of the future promotes cooperation in a repeated prisoner’s dilemma for children. Scientific Reports 5, Article number 14559. DOI: 10.1038/srep14559

Blake, P.R., & McAuliffe, K. (2011). “I had so much it didn’t seem fair”: Eight-year-olds reject two forms of inequity. Cognition 120, 215-224. DOI: 10.1016/j.cognition.2011.04.006

Bronfenbrenner, U. (1979). The ecology of human development: Experiments by nature and design. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.

Chernyak, N., & Kushnir, T. (2013). Giving preschoolers choice increases sharing behavior. Psychological Science 24, 1971-1979.

Jordan, J.J., McAuliffe, K., & Warneken, F. (2014). Development of in-group favoritism in children’s third-party punishment of selfishness. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 111(35), 12710-12715. DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1402280111

McAuliffe, K., Blake, P.R., Steinbeis, N., & Warneken, F. (2017). The developmental foundations of human fairness. Nature (Human Behavior) 1 (Article 00042), 1-9.

McAuliffe, K., Jordan, J.J., & Warneken, F. (2015). Costly third-party punishment in young children. Cognition 134, 1-10. DOI: 10.1016/j.cognition.2014.08.013

Schmuckler, M.A. (2001). What is ecological validity? A dimensional analysis. Infancy 2(4), 419-436. Full article available at: http://utsc.utoronto.ca/~marksch/Schmuckler%202001.pdf

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017: Don’t bother trying to increase your child’s self-esteem

Jen Lumanlan — Mon, 19 Dec 2016 00:06:00 +0000

Self-Esteem

When I first started researching this episode I thought it would be a bit of a slam-dunk. Self-esteem is a good thing, right?

I was really surprised to find that there’s little evidence that self-esteem helps children to do better in school, or even be happier, so there’s a good deal of disagreement among psychologists about whether encouraging self-esteem is necessarily a good thing.

This episode digs into these issues to understand (as much as scientists currently can) the benefits of self-esteem – and what qualities parents might want to encourage in their children in place of self-esteem to enable better outcomes. It also touches on our self-esteem as parents – because don’t we all want to think that our child is just a little bit special, so we know we’re good parents?

Jump to highlights

00:31 Introduction of episode

01:45 What research says about self-esteem

03:41 Stages on how children develop self-esteem

06:01 3 Conditions that children experience social success when outside the family

10:06 The link between violence and self-esteem

13:23 The link between self-esteem and school performance

16:04 Role of self-esteem in interpersonal relationships

18:17 What conclusion can parents make in this episode

23:46 Self-compassion affects self-esteem

References

Bachman, J.G. & O’Malley, P.M. (1986). Self-concepts, self-esteem, and educational experiences: The frog pond revisited (again). Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 50, 35-46.

Baumeister, R.F., Campbell, J.D., Krueger, J.I., & Vohs, K.D. (2003). Does high self-esteem cause better performance, interpersonal success, happiness, or healthier lifestyles? Psychological Science in the Public Interest 4(1), 1-44. DOI: 10.1111/1529-1006.01431

Beggan, J.K. (1992). On the social nature of nonsocial perception: The mere ownership effect. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 62(2), 229-237. DOI: 10.1037/0022-3514.62.2.229

Bretherton, I. (1992). The origins of attachment theory: John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth. Developmental Psychology 28(5), 759-775. Retrieved from: http://cmapspublic2.ihmc.us/rid=1LQX400NM-RBVKH9-1KL6/the%20origins%20of%20attachment%20theory%20john%20bowlby%20and_mary_ainsworth.pdf

Brummelman, E., Thomaes, S., Orobio de Castro, B., Overbeek, G., & Bushman, B.J. (2014). “That’s not just beautiful – that’s incredibly beautiful!”: The adverse impact of inflated praise on children with low self-esteem. Psychological Science Online, 1-8. DOI: 10.1177/0956797613514251

California State Department of Education (1990). Toward a state of esteem: The final report of the California task force to promote self-esteem and personal and social responsibility. Full report available at: http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED321170.pdf

Coleman, P.K. & Karraker, K.H. (1997). Self-efficacy and parenting quality: Findings and future applications. Developmental Review 18, 47-85. DOI: 10.1006/drev.1997.0448

Cvencek, D., Greenwald, A.G., & Meltzoff, A.N. (2016). Implicit measures for preschool children confirm self-esteem’s role in maintaining a balanced identity. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology 62, 50-57. DOI: 10.1016/j.jesp.2015.09.015

Dweck, C. (2007). Mindset: The new psychology of success. New York: Ballantine.
Forsyth, D.R., & Kerr, N.A. (1999, August). Are adaptive illusions adaptive? Poster presented at the annual meeting of the American Psychological Association, Boston, MA.

Guindon, M.H. (2010). Self-esteem across the lifespan. New York: Routledge.

Harter, S. (1993). Causes and consequences of low self-esteem in children and adolescents. In R.F. Baumeister (Ed.), Self-esteem: The puzzle of low self-regard. New York: Plenum.

James, W. (1983). The principles of psychology. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. (Original work published 1890)

Joslin, K.R. (1994). Positive parenting from A to Z. New York: Ballantine.

Kutob, R.M., Senf, J.H., Crago, M., & Shisslak, C.M. (2010). Concurrent and longitudinal predictors of self-esteem in elementary and middle school girls. Journal of School Health 80(5), 240-248. DOI: 10.1111/j.1746-1561.2010.00496.x

Mruk, C.J. (2006). Self-esteem, research, theory, and practice (3rd Ed.). New York: Springer.

Neff, K.D. (2011). Self-compassion, self-esteem, and well-being. Social and Personality Psychology Compass 5(1), 1-12. DOI: 10.1111/j.1751-9004.2010.00330.x

Neff, K.D., & McGehee, P. (2010). Self-compassion and psychological resilience among adolescents and young adults. Self and Identity 9, 225-240. DOI: 10.1080/15298860902979307

Vohs, K.D., Bardone, A.M., Joiner, T.E., Abramson, L.Y., & Heatherton, T.F. (1999). Perfectionism, perceived weight status, and self-esteem interact to predict bulimic symptoms: A model of bulimic symptom development. Journal of Abnormal Psychology 108, 695-700. DOI: 10.1037/0021-843X.108.4.695

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015: How to support your introverted child

Jen Lumanlan — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 21:00:00 +0000

Do you think your child may be introverted? Or are you not sure how to tell? Around one in three people are introverted so if you have two or three children, chances are one of them is introverted. While Western – and particularly American – society tends to favor extroverts, being an introvert isn’t something we can – or should – cure. It’s a personality trait, not a flaw.

Join me as we walk through a topic near and dear to my heart, and learn the difference between introversion and shyness, and how to support your introverted child – no matter whether you yourself are introverted or extroverted.

References

Aron, E.N. (1996). Are you highly sensitive? Retrieved from: http://hsperson.com/test/highly-sensitive-test/

Belsky, J., Jonassaint, C., Pluess, M., Stanton, M., Brummett, B., & Williams, R. (2009). Vulnerability genes or plasticity genes? Molecular Psychiatry 14, 746-754. DOI: 10.1038/mp.2009.44

Cain, S. (2013). Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can’t stop talking. New York: Broadway.

Dobbs, D. (2009). The science of success. The Atlantic. Retrieved from: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/the-science-of-success/307761/

Kagan, J., & Snidman, N. (2004). The long shadow of temperament. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press

Keogh, B.K. (1986). Temperament and schooling: Meaning of “Goodness of Fit”? In J.V. Lerner and R.M. Lerner (Eds). Temperament and social interaction in infancy and children. San Francisco, Jossey-Bass.

Laney, M.O. (2002). The introvert advantage: How to thrive in an extrovert world. New York: Workman.

Markway, B.G., & Markway, G.P. (2005). Nurturing the shy child: Practical help for raising confident ans socially skilled kids and teens. New York: St. Martin’s.

McCrae, R.R., & Terracciano, A. (2006). National character and personality. Current Directions in Psychological Science 15(4), 156-161.

Pluess, M., & Belsky, J. (2009). Differential susceptibility to rearing experience: The case of childcare. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 50(4), 396-404. DOI: 10.1111/j.1469-7610.2008.01992.x

Pluess, M., & Belsky, J. (2010). Differential susceptibility to parenting and quality child care. Developmental Psychology 46(2), 379-390. DOI: 10.1037/a0015203

Similarminds.com (a version of Eysenck’s Personality Inventory). Retrieved from: http://similarminds.com/eysenck.html

Swallow, W.K. (2000). The shy child: Helping children triumph over shyness. New York: Warner.

Swann, W.B. & Rentfrow, P.J. (2001). Blirtatiousness: Cognitive, behavioral, and physiological consequences of rapid responding. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 81(6), 1160-1175. DOI: 10.1037//0022-35I4.81.6.1160

Thomas, A., & Chess, S. (1977). Temperament and development. New York: Brunner/Mazel.

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006: Wait, is my toddler racist?

Jen Lumanlan — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 03:00:00 +0000

This episode is part of a series on understanding the intersection of race, privilege, and parenting. Click here to view all the items in this series.

I’d always assumed that if I didn’t mention race to my daughter, if it was just a non-issue, that she wouldn’t grow up to be racist. Boy, was I wrong about that. It turns out that our brains are wired to make generalizations about people, and race is a pretty obviously noticeable way of categorizing people. If your child is older than three, try tearing a few pictures of White people and a few more of Black people out of a magazine and ask him to group them any way he likes. Based on the research, I’d put money on him sorting the pictures by race.

So what have we learned about reversing racism once it has already developed? How can we prevent our children from becoming racist in the first place? And where do they learn these things anyway? (Surprise: “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”)

Jump to highlights

00:37 Introduction of episode
02:03 The premise of Vedantam’s book The Hidden Brain
02:51 Brain processors that happened using unconscious awareness
05:05 What happens to people after being caught making racist comments
08:36 Colorblind approach to socialization
15:00 The literature on attempts to reverse bias in children
23:07 Advice for parents about the episode

References

Aboud, F.E. (2003). The formation of in-group favoritism and out-group prejudice in children: Are they distinct attitudes? Developmental Psychology 39(1), 48-60.

Bigler, R. (1999). The user of multicultural curricula and materials to counter racism in children. Journal of Social Issues 55(4), 687-705.

Castelli, L., Zogmaister, C., & Tomelleri, S. (2009). The transmission of racial attitudes within the family. Developmental Psychology 45(2), 586-591.

Faber, J. (2006). “Kramer” apologizes, says he’s not racist. CBS News. Retrieved from: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kramer-apologizes-says-hes-not-racist/

Frontline (1985). A class divided. Available at: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/class-divided/

Hebl, M.R., Foster, J.B., Mannix, L.M., & Fovidio, J.F. (2002). Formal and interpersonal discrimination: A field study of bias toward homosexual applicants. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 28(6), 815-825. Full article available at: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mikki_Hebl/publication/252443069_Formal_and_Interpersonal_Discrimination_A_Field_Study_of_Bias_Toward_Homosexual_Applicants/links/55a760f108ae410caa752c8c.pdf

Hebl, M.R., & Mannix, L.M. (2003). The weight of obesity in evaluating others: A mere proximity effect. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 29(1), 28-38. Full article available at: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mikki_Hebl/publication/8436667_The_Weight_of_Obesity_in_Evaluating_Others_A_Mere_Proximity_Effect/links/55a760fb08aeb4e8e646e81f.pdf

Hebl, M.R., & Xu, J. (2001). Weighing the care: Physicians’ reactions to the size of a patient. International Journal of Obesity 25, 1246-1252.

Pahlke, E., Bigler, R.S., & Suizzo, M.A. (2012). Relations between colorblind socialization and children’s racial bias: Evidence from European American mothers and their preschool children. Child Development 83(4), 1164-1179. Full article available at: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/224853709_Relations_Between_Colorblind_Socialization_and_Children%27s_Racial_Bias_Evidence_From_European_American_Mothers_and_Their_Preschool_Children

Piaget, J. (1950). The child’s conception of the world. New York: Humanities Press.

Piaget, J. (1970). Piaget’s theory. In P.H. Mussen (ed.), Carmichael’s manual of child psychology (p.703-732). New York: Wiley.

Priest, N., Walton, J., White, F., Kowal, E., Baker, A., & Parides, Y. (2014). Understanding the complexities of ethnic-racial socialization processes for both minority and majority groups: A 30-year systematic review. International Journal of Intercultural Relations 43, 139-155.

TMZ (2012). Michael Richards spews racist hate. Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoLPLsQbdt0

Vedantam, S. (2010). The hidden brain. New York: Spiegel and Grau.

von Hippel, W., Silver, L.A., & Lynch, M.E. (2000). Stereotyping against your will: The role of inhibitory ability in stereotyping and prejudice among the elderly. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 26(5), 523-532. Full article available at: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/William_Von_Hippel/publication/255604292_Stereotyping_Against_Your_Will_The_Role_of_Inhibitory_Ability_in_Stereotyping_and_Prejudice_among_the_Elderly/links/5475035a0cf245eb43707162.pdf

Weber, S., & Meilan, I. (2015). Michael Richards: My racist outburst during 2006 stand-up gig was a “reality check.” Us Magazine. Retrieved from: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/michael-richards-my-racist-outburst-in-2006-was-a-reality-check-20152310

Weiner, M.J., & Wright, F.E. (1973). Effects of undergoing arbitrary discrimination upon subsequent attitudes toward a minority group. Journal of Applied Psychology 3(1), 94-102.

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002: Why doesn’t my toddler share?

Jen Lumanlan — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:11:00 +0000

Imagine this: you’re with your toddler son or daughter at a playground on a Saturday afternoon so there are a lot of people around. You’re sitting on a bench while your child plays in the sandpit where several others are playing as well. You’re half paying attention while you catch up with some texts on your phone. You hear a scream and when you look up you see a child you don’t know clutching tightly onto the spade your child had been playing with, and your child is about to burst into tears.

Or this: You’re at the playground on a Saturday afternoon and your child is in the sand pit, but when you hear the scream you look up to see your child holding the spade, and a child you don’t know has clearly just had it removed from his possession.

What do you do?

Assuming you want your children to learn how to share things, what’s the best way to encourage that behavior? What signs can you look for to understand whether they’re developmentally ready? Does praising a child who proactively shares something encourage her to do it again – or make her less likely to share in the future? We’ll answer all these questions and more.

Jump to highlights

00:37 Introduction of episode

02:10 Drastic steps to promote sharing behavior

02:54 The key goal for resting parents

03:28 Concepts for sharing behavior

04:55 Concept of ownership

07:07 Understand the thing for you to be yours

07:29 Understanding of time

08:20 Impulse control

11:42 Shaming a child into sharing

14:55 Five sharing strategies you can teach children

References

Brownell, C., S. Iesue, S. Nichols, and M. Svetlova (2012). Mine or Yours? Development of Sharing in Toddlers in Relation to Ownership Understanding. Child Development 84:3 906-920. Full article available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3578097/

Crary, E. (2013). The secret of toddler sharing: Why sharing is hard and how to make it easier. Parenting Press, Seattle, WA.

Davis, L., and J. Keyser (1997). Becoming the parent you want to be. Broadway Books, New York, NY.

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