262: How Limits Show Up in Your Child’s Body

I wish there were some things that were just yes for my body. I wish you could tell me the few rules that really, really matter. I wish that you could see that when I yell no or I fall on the floor, I'm not trying to be bad. I'm trying to say, this is too much for me, but I don't know how to say those words yet. Because when you start to see their behavior this way, as communication about their overwhelm, not just opposition, it becomes so much easier to ask, where can I say fewer, truer no's? And where can I give a little more yes without abandoning my values or my own needs?

Hi, I'm Emma, and I'm listening from the UK. We all want our children to lead fulfilled lives, but we're surrounded by conflicting information and clickbait headlines that leave us wondering what to do as parents. The Your Parenting Mojo podcast distills scientific research on parenting and child development into tools parents can actually use every day in their real lives with their real children. If you'd like to be notified when new episodes are released and get a free infographic on the 13 reasons your child isn't listening to you and what to do about each one, just head on over to yourparentingmojo.com/subscribe. And pretty soon, you're going to get tired of hearing my voice read this intro. So come and record one yourself at yourparentingmojo.com/recordtheintro.

Hello, and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. If your mornings feel like a battle where you say no, what seems like 100 times before eight o'clock in the morning, and you end up exhausted and wondering why your child won't just do the routine, this episode is for you. And today I want to talk about limits from a bit of a different angle than I usually do. So we won't be looking at what's the right rule or what should I say instead of yelling or what consequence should I give for their latest misbehavior. But what we're going to look at is what all of this feels like inside your young child's body, especially when they don't have the words to tell you themselves. Recently, I've been seeing posts on social media about older kids and it's along the lines of “my mom asked me how I'm doing and I say fine, I'm not fine”. Preschoolers don't usually say I'm fine when they're not, they tell us that they aren't fine with their behavior. One of the most powerful exercises I do with parents is when we take a typical example of their child's misbehavior and work to see the incident from their child's perspective. So today we're going to go inside your preschooler's body on one ordinary morning when you just want them to cooperate and instead you get flopping on the floor and dawdling and silliness and no.

So let's start at 7am, I know this is a little late for some folks when the day gets going much earlier, but let's say the wake up's around 7am, you go into their bedroom, time to wake up, let's get breakfast, and they roll over and they pull their covers back up, nope, time to go, come on, you know, 7.05 breakfast time, downstairs, pouring the cereal, they start stirring their cereal with their finger, stop that please, we use spoons to eat food. The bowl tips over, milk spills on the table, then onto the ground, and we might say careful, make sure you hold it right, and then I told you not to do that, clean it up, sit still in your seat, and then you won't knock things off the table. And then maybe you catch them feeding a cereal to the dog, no, that's your breakfast, you eat it, the dog has their breakfast. It's 7.10, time to get dressed, and you say okay, time to get dressed, and your child picks up a toy, maybe on their way to the room, maybe they get distracted and they sit down right there, and you say no, leave it, clothes first. Then they find the wrong shirt, and you say not that one, it's dirty, pick another one. Perhaps they balance a shoe on their head while they're half-dressed, and you say stop playing, shoes go on your feet later, and then they're putting their socks on, and they just flop on the floor, and you say get up, I don't have time for this, so they get up, and then they start jumping on the bed instead of putting their pants on, and you say no jumping now, pants on.

7.18am, I know this timeline is a little bit unrealistic, but you know, brushing your teeth, upstairs, toothpaste is on the brush, and then they start a sword fight with their sibling with the toothpaste-y brush, stop playing, brush your teeth. And perhaps by this time there is toothpaste all over the sink, and you say no wasting it, just a little bit, they rinse, what seems like it's 17 times, one rinse, get it done, then spit, and so they spit, and they aim a little bit high, accidentally, unclear, don't spit at the mirror, now I have to clean that up, okay. 7.30am, shoes on, out the door, they come downstairs, you hand them the shoes, and they say you put my shoes on, and you say no, you can do it yourself, you did it yesterday, and then they get started, and you say not like that, other foot, like this, and then you turn away for a moment, they get up, and they start turning the lights on and off, don't do that yet, shoes first, lights after, and then they say can you carry me down the stairs, and you say big kids walk, you've got this. Maybe 7.40 by now, getting buckled in the car, right, they don't want to get in the car seat, come on, let's go, why does this have to be so hard, then they kick you while you're buckling them in, you say hold still, feet down, and if they're front-facing, perhaps they start kicking you as you're driving, and you say stop kicking the seat, and then as you're driving, you're thinking what's happening, it's so quiet, they used to name every dog and tree that they passed, or maybe you're getting rocket silliness, vroom, and they're kicking the seat, or maybe a grumpy fine, and their arms crossed, and they've got a red face, perhaps if they're on the older side.

Okay, and you're thinking why won't they just do the routine, we do this every day, why does it have to be so hard, and maybe their inner voice is hearing something like no, stop, be careful, no, no, no, no, do it yourself, let's go, no, no, no, no, no, there's been 21 wrong things before we even get out the door. Maybe they don't know what to do anymore, everything they do and say gets corrected, maybe they go quiet, maybe they get silly, maybe they get mad, and I want to be clear that none of these individual corrections is terrible on their own, it's the pileup of them that becomes overwhelming. So at the beginning of one of these conversations that I have with a parent, most parents can see the child's behavior, and they want me to help them figure out how to get their child moving in the morning, so they can get out the door on time. Preschoolers live almost completely in the present moment, they learn through movement and repetition rather than explanations, and they have very limited impulse control. So when their day is a near constant stream of no, not like that, stop, be careful, don't touch, that's not polite, they can't sort it all into, well these are the safety rules, and these are the social niceties, and these are my parents' preferences. From their perspective it sounds a lot like, well everything I want to do is wrong, I'm always in trouble, and that's the invisible cost of all of these limits, again, not the individual no, but the sheer volume of correction after correction after correction, and their behavior, the silliness, the defiance, the shutdown, can be their body's way of saying, if this is too much for me, I'm not fine. Okay, so let's rewind through the same incidents in that morning, and listen for what the child's behavior might actually be communicating about their needs.

So let's go to back to breakfast, right, they got their finger in the cereal, they're stirring it, maybe they spilled the food, they're underneath the table, they're feeding the dog. Perhaps you see mess, and they're distracted, they won't eat properly. Maybe the child has a need for sensory exploration, maybe autonomy, they want to be the one who decides, so when they're stirring that cereal with their finger, they might be thinking, I want to feel this with my hands, because preschoolers learn by touching things. When they're feeding the dog, I want to connect with this other living thing, and what essentially, they're asking is, can I explore this moment before rushing through it. You're trying to get them dressed, and they're picking up a toy, balancing a shoe on their head, they're flopping on the floor, they're jumping on the bed, maybe you see doddling, you see playing, when it's time to go, and your child might have a need again for autonomy, and perhaps some big body movements. So when they pick up the toy, oh that really caught my eye, I want to touch that. Perhaps when they're balancing the shoe, oh I want to test how my body works, when they flop on the floor, they might be thinking, I want to feel my full weight against the ground, feels really good. Perhaps when they're climbing on the bed, they just have this sense of joy, and fun, and they want this really big movement, and they're essentially saying, can I move my body my way, even while I'm getting dressed.

Now let's go to the teeth brushing, right, we got the sword fight with the sibling, the toothpaste squeeze, 17 rinses, water flinging at the mirror. Perhaps you see wasting time, making a mess, wasting the toothpaste as well, they're not following the steps they should follow. Perhaps your child has a need for a play, and maybe they're trying to figure out cause and effect, right, playing with a toothbrush, this can be fun and functional, they see it as a sword. When they're squeezing the toothpaste, perhaps they don't yet have control over how much comes out when they squeeze, maybe when they're endlessly rinsing their mouths, they're thinking, oh I can control how the water comes out, I want to play with that. Essentially what they're getting at is, can brushing be kind of an adventure, can it be fun, not just a chore. And then finally when they're putting their shoes on, you're almost about to get out the door, they put their shoes on the wrong feet, they're fiddling with the light switches, they want you to carry them, perhaps you see, oh they're not competent, they could do it yesterday but somehow they can't do it today, they're distracted, this is extra work for me. Maybe what the child is communicating is, I have a need for a connection and also I want to be competent too, right, they put their shoes on the wrong feet, I'm still figuring this out, can I just try, can I figure it out for myself rather than have you fix me. The lights are interesting, can I engage, the request to be carried, I need to be feel close to you right now, I know that we're going to be separated really soon, I'm going to miss you. Can I be close to you as we go down the steps. So I do want to be clear, right, that I completely made up this example, your child might be doing exactly these same behaviors but have very different needs and when I start working with parents, they tend to ask me, well how can I know what my child's needs are when they won't or they can't tell me and I want to make sure that you know more than you think you do.

I haven't met a parent who with a little bit of support and practice couldn't get better at this, it takes curiosity and it takes some willingness to put yourself in their shoes and having someone there to guide you through that process opens up a world of options to meet their needs. At this point you might be thinking, okay Jen but what about my needs, don't worry I'm coming to that. So we've heard what your preschooler is trying to communicate through stirring their seal with their finger, through balancing their shoes on their head, through pressing the light switch over and over again. Now let's look at it from your perspective, what are your needs in that same morning chaos, you're not the villain for wanting things to go smoothly. So breakfast time right, finger in the cereal, feeding the dog, we're not looking for perfect table manners or zero mess, you're probably looking for some ease and a sense of harmony and maybe some strategies you're using to meet those needs or you're looking for a moment to sip your coffee without constant intervention. Maybe some predictability so you can mentally plan the next three steps that you have to take. Some energy left for the day ahead rather than depleted by round 17 of use your spoon and every deviation from that becomes your responsibility to fix which makes it harder for you to meet your need for ease. Moving into the dressing and the teeth, they pick up the toy, balancing the shoe, the floor flopping, the bed climbing, also the toothbrush swords right, all the toothpaste, the endless rinsing, the spitting, you're not looking for robot-like compliance, you're essentially looking for collaboration and teamwork, right? You want to be on the same team with your kid, you're moving toward out the door with you.

Wouldn't it be nice to have the capacity to handle one thing at a time rather than four corrections simultaneously and what if you could have the confidence to know that you're going to make it to work or school or drop off or wherever you're going on time right. Right now, their exploration turns into your endless refereeing which kills that collaboration. Then finally as you're getting out the door, shoes are going on the wrong feet, the light switch flicking on and off, them asking you to be carried, you're not looking for them to always get it right the first time or never get distracted, but you have a responsibility to your colleagues and you probably also want to be connected to your kid as well right, the separation's coming up for the two of you. It would be nice to trust that your child can handle basic tasks without constant supervision. And maybe have a sort of quick check-in moment rather than this demand to be carried that to you signals regression, oh we're going backward. And of course, your co-workers expect you to be on time. So what I want you to see here is that both of you have legitimate needs, your child has needs for connection, for autonomy, for movement, for exploration, play, fun, joy. You as a parent have needs for ease, for harmony, for collaboration, for responsibility to other people in your life and having more than 20 corrections before you get out the door doesn't solve this, it temporarily suppresses the child's needs but it creates exhaustion for you from constantly enforcing this and then they get into shutdowns and silliness and meltdowns because nobody likes to be constantly wrong and no one's needs get met, you're both frazzled by the time you walk out the door. But what if you actually could meet both of your needs, well here's how it could play out in just three of the examples from this fictional morning.

So when the child starts stirring their cereal with their finger, could you say nothing, you might prefer that they keep their fingers out of their food but if they did wash their hands after they use the bathroom is any harm really going to come of it. This allows them to meet their need for autonomy, joy, play and fun and by not setting that limit you build goodwill that carries you through the rest of the morning. If they spilled the milk yesterday could you give them a bowl that's harder to tip over today. If they do spill it could you just hand them a cloth. I'm thinking about parent Maile whom I talked with a few weeks ago who realized she has much different standards for her husband, if he spills something she'll help him clean it up, then for her child where she tends to get angry when her child does exactly the same thing. When they get distracted by toys, when they use way too much toothpaste, when they spit at the mirror they might be looking for more joy and play and fun. And so could you try something like moving to the bathroom as you mimic different kinds of animals? Could you ask how elephants would brush their teeth? Could you put a cling sticker on the sink and have a competition to see who can spit at it more accurately? The key here is to spend a few minutes maybe together creating a menu of playful options so you can pick one off the list in the moment instead of having to think of the playful thing when you're already stressed out. And as your child is asking for your help in putting their shoes on and you are maybe thinking your morning would be a whole lot easier if they could do more tasks for themselves and maybe start catastrophizing and worry they're never going to be independent if you don't get this started now. But they're looking for a moment of connection with you before you separate for the day and the longer that they resist the more connection they get. They might prefer that you weren't yelling at them but they'll take you yelling at them and being in the same room over the smooth exit to the car and the faster separation. So is it possible that you could see their need for connection and meet that need by helping them put their shoes on knowing the independence will follow in time. It also right helps you meet your need for connection and responsibility to your co-workers so it meets both of your needs.

And here's a little secret right where your needs are for things like ease and harmony and collaboration and you take a step toward meeting your child's needs, your needs often come along for the ride as well. So we've spent a lot of time so far looking at one sample morning but just think about how many of your mornings go like that description that I gave you at the beginning. Think about the cumulative effect of all of those no's and stops and don't do it that ways across all of those mornings and the evenings and the weekend. I often think about Dr. John and Julie Gottman’s research on couples that suggests that we need about five positive interactions for every one negative one to feel good in the relationship. With 21 no stop don't moments in a morning it's easy for that ratio to flip in a parent-child relationship and that's especially concerning when our kids are so dependent on us. What's the ultimate outcome of all those no's how does it trace forward over the next year five years ten years if we continue on that trajectory. You may already know this yourself you might have lived it. Here's how a couple of parents that I’ve talked with over the years have explained it to me Crystal's parents made sure they got compliance when she was little and Crystal responded by rebelling as soon as she could.

I’m the eldest of eight children and so my parents had children every three years for 27 years so there's 27 years between my sibling and myself and I think it just got to a point where you have that many children that many needs. And then my parents’ kind of were working through their own baggage and issues that it was just a lot easier if the children just did whatever they were told when they were told to do it. And then sadly coming from the generation that my parents came from and then a religious background there was you know this higher authority thing where you must do you know first time obedience I was thinking about this last night there was a lot of very strong authoritarian white males speaking into that space in parenting and it was very much first time obedient that was such a big thing in our family first time obedient you do what you're asked when you're asked of it and I remember my parents saying you know that one two three magic is had been quite popular or it was in Australia like you've got one you've got two you've got three and my parents didn't want to do one two or three because they're like you've got one. You've got one and then the consequences are going to follow pretty strongly after that so we learned very early on to well and also my mom suffered quite badly from undiagnosed postnatal depression so coupled with that there was also this underlying well I feel responsible for not only her needs but I was the eldest child so I feel responsible for every other child under me. And so I spent a long time as I was growing up just reading in the room all the time like what do people need what is expected of me my parents tell this cute little story when I was about five I would offer everyone cups of tea if I saw that there was conflict kind of escalating and I thought that was very cute but as an adult I think that you know very sad that from a very young age what does everybody need to try and keep the peace and to stop things escalating and make sure that my mom you know didn't end up in bed for days on end so yeah there was a lot to navigate through as a young child.

Okay and so compliance was not in any way optional then and so you can sort of we can picture I can picture myself as a parent making compliance non-optional and then thinking okay how does that play out into the teenage years so what was your relationship like with compliance in those teenage years?

This is a thing people become so shocked when their you know sweet little 12 or 13 year old gets to this point and they say well you can no longer control me and when parents can no longer control their kid what have you got you haven't worked on any relationship building skills you haven't got problem solving all you've got is control and yet you've got this 12-13 year old saying well you can't control me anymore and you know they come into their power or I know that I definitely came into that power and was like well you no longer control me and I’m going to do all of these you know behaviors.

In another conversation Crystal told me more about those behaviors.

And then as a young adult I found myself in a situation where I was heavily caught up in the drug scene. Heavily caught up in I’m drinking alcohol and I thought oh you know there's something wrong with me I can't believe that I’m in this situation doing the things that I’m doing you know in really toxic codependent sort of relationships.

Of course not every child who has limits set on their behavior is going to end up doing drugs I tend to see this go one of two ways either the child rebels as soon as they can or they toe the line they do what they're told they get the grades go to the right universities they get a good job they get married they buy a house. And then eventually they look around in the midlife and wonder how did I get here and they are yelling at their kids for the very same things that they would have been punished for doing as kids. Parent Iris told me about how she used to manipulate her daughter using the same tools her parents used on her.

I don't know if this will come as a surprise to you, I was not the most obedient child.

No I’m not shocked.

And my father when he gets frustrated with me he would say like Iris um the time will come when you will have your own child and your child will be more difficult than you and I curse you and so I thought that this was some kind of a curse on me and so when I was having hard time with Malaya I was like oh my god this is the curse. You know it's parenting is just difficult whether you are cursed so that is one um one thing and the other important thing that I’m still continuing to sort of like percolate in my mind is how I see power and respect because you know respect for the elders for those who are older than you is like no buts no ifs like don't question and all these things. But then Malaya she is here in Canada and she's a totally different person and um of course I don't want her to walk all over me and be like abusive or something but she can answer like she can say her piece and I try to talk to her about decisions and her opinions there is one example for this. So she was getting ready for her musical theater class and she is this like what like she's just this person and so I said I used my Filipino mom tactic I said oh Malaya you are dilly-dallying there if you are late to your practice to your rehearsal the teacher will the teacher will replace you and then I said like that. And so she went to the breakfast table and then after a while she said mama I don't think the teachers will do that because first of all that's mean and second we're children and said I don't think they will replace me and then and then she said I’ve memorized my lines I know where to go so you know and I was like dang my scaring tactics and i just laughed I you know I said yeah you're right because but if it was a different when I was growing up it was like you do this no questions just follow.

Iris also told me the manipulation was a strategy that she used when she was calm but she wasn't always calm.

When Malaya was about three years old, we were in the park and I usually pack food like you know snacks and things like that. I was hungry and that's one of my factors I was hungry and she was at the stage Jen where like you ask her for something and you know like no I won't give you and I kept on asking because I was really hungry and she really wouldn't give me and um and I packed for both of us by the way and then a crow swooped in and got into the container and all the I don't know if it's grapes or nuts all of those things spilled out on the ground. And I was just so angry like I feel this hot thing coming out from my from my gut here and just like and Malaya started crying because she felt that energy and I of course I felt very guilty about that I was like oh my god what am I doing and yet I also recognized that there was something so primal in being denied and I’ll put that “being denied food” and it's just I wasn't rational at all and then the other instance was when you know out of the blue Malaya asked me mama why are you always angry and the way she asked it was really significant to me because she asked it out of curiosity. It wasn't there was no judgment she just like wanted to understand and there was like you know concern in her voice like what why is this and so I’m all for being open and vulnerable and showing all asset facets of myself to my daughter but I just had this instinctive feeling that it's not good for a child to be always looking at her parent like you know who was supposed to take care of her and always like erupting like a volcano every hour or something so yeah. That's when I you know I thought I need more help than the medication I need more help than counseling I need more help than all these things I’m doing for myself to help to help me.

So these are some of the signs that you might look for in yourself that you could use some more help with this but there are signs to look out for in your kids as well the primary sign while your kids are still young is that they still aren't listening to you despite you saying the same thing over and over again. It's not that your kids don't know what you want so that they aren't doing it means that you need help to find the path forward. By middle school we start to see kids hiding things from their parents on a more regular basis maybe you remember this from middle school perhaps you know a middle schooler in your life and can see this happening they become embarrassed about their parents. They tell their friends things that they think their parents won't understand. So how you set limits now today with a toddler or preschooler is not the only factor of course. Peers matter school matters but kids don't get to middle school and suddenly decide in a vacuum to start hiding their real selves from their parents instead they look back at their families often without words right they're not saying this they may not even be concretely thinking this but implicitly they're asking is it safe to be who I am here? Does my family already know me and love me for who I am and find ways to meet both of our needs when things get hard. Because I think that this shift away from us is not inevitable even though we see so many kids doing it it's not inevitable because what we do now today, tomorrow over the next weeks and months creates the conditions that our child is going to be in when they make that decision. And I do want to make sure you are clear what I’m not suggesting is no limits and your kid gets to do whatever they want and they walk all over you right we absolutely should keep our young kids safe we should protect other people we should give them a sense of structure and predictability that feels good to them. But the shift that I can help parents make is toward fewer limits that are true to you so there's going to be fewer of that sort of background noise the be careful the not now that don't do that the no all day. And it's a truer limit because the limits you do hold are clearly tied to safety to respect to your real needs not just to habit or convenience or because you kind of think that this is the best way of doing things but maybe there are other good ways of doing this too

One example that I come back to over and over again to illustrate this is a child jumping on the couch and it's so easy right I’ve done it myself to just say stop jumping or we don't jump on the couch and the two questions. I want you to ask yourself when you see a child doing something that you don't want them to do is why is my child jumping and why am I asking them to stop so if they're jumping because they have a lot of energy and you don't want the couch to get broken maybe you could suggest jumping on the bed or running around the block in a timed race or something like that. If you're feeling exhausted after a long day and maybe they're jumping on the couch because they're trying to connect with you because you've told them 100 times not to do it and say they know that jumping on the couch is a really solid way of getting your attention you might suggest reading to them or playing with them. You don't need a limit and both of your needs get met.

So as we wrap up let's just drop back into our kids inner voice for a moment maybe they're thinking something like I wish there were some things that were just yes for my body. I wish you could tell me the few rules that really matter. I wish that you could see that when I yell no or I fall on the floor I’m not trying to be bad I’m trying to say this is too much for me but I don't know how to say those words yet. Because when you start to see their behavior this way as communication about them overwhelm not just opposition it becomes so much easier to ask where can I say fewer truer no's and where can I give a little more yes without abandoning my values or my own needs and so if as you've listened today, you've thought oh yeah that's my kid. They used to chatter and now they climb up or they get silly or maybe yeah that's us our days are just one correction after another. You are exactly who I created the Setting Loving (&Effective) Limits program for. You can access it anytime on your own schedule but once a year we run it as a group and over a 10-day period we're going to help you see how many limits you're actually setting using simple examples that fit into your real life we'll help you sort those into these are necessary and these ones I’m willing to soften on or maybe we don't need them at all. We're going to practice holding fewer clearer limits in a way that your child's nervous system can actually handle. And we'll talk about what to do when their behavior is screaming I’m not fine through defiance through silliness or through shutdown and you know you don't want to go back to threats and power struggles. So you're not going to have to do this alone with a book or an Instagram reel you get short focused lessons in your inbox and we'll have three live group calls where you can bring the actual challenges you're experiencing and get live direct coaching from me and you'll also get to experience what it's like to be in community of respectful parents who are also trying to Set Loving (&Effective) Limits and set a lot fewer of those limits and maybe even find themselves in the process. So if you want help turning your too many limits days into fewer truer limits days that your young child can actually live with come and join us. Between April 27th and May 6th we're going to send you one email module per day and you'll get to join the three group coaching calls with me on April 28th, April 30th, and May 6th either 11 am or 5 pm Pacific whichever one fits your schedule better. The calls will be recorded in case you can't attend live and we will have a way for you to ask questions and get them answered on the calls this time around we're trying a different pricing structure because I want to help the maximum number of people possible so from April 14th to 16th which is coming up real fast the workshop is pay what you want because we don't want cost to be the reason that you can't join. After that it's going to be $37 for the early birds who registered between April 17th and 22nd and then $57 for the last-minute enrollees between April 23rd and 26th. So if you're just tired of mornings that start with correction and end with disconnection you don't have to figure it out by yourself you're allowed to want ease and collaboration with your child I do hope that you'll come and join us in the Setting Loving (&Effective) Limits workshop so that we can practice doing that together all the information on how to sign up is available at yourparentingmojo.com/settinglimits that's yourparentingmojo.com/settinglimits I’m really looking forward to meeting you there.

Hi I'm Emma and I’m listening from the UK. We know you have a lot of choices about where you get information about parenting and we're honored that you've chosen us as we move toward a world in which everyone's lives and contributions are valued if you'd like to help keep the show ad free please do consider making a donation on the episode page that Jen just mentioned. Thanks again for listening to this episode of the your parenting mojo podcast.