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Hello and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. We're taking a little unplanned detour in our mini series on the topic of menopause in this episode. So a few weeks ago, I interviewed Dr Louise Newson to get a medical take on what is menopause and how we can navigate it more effectively. And a member in the Parenting Membership had also mentioned a book co-authored by today's guests, Alexandra Pope and Sjanie Hugo Wurlitzer which is called Wise Power. As you might expect, I usually try and read around a topic when I'm preparing an interview. So I also picked up their book, Wild Power: Discover the Magic of Your Menstrual Cycle and Awaken the Feminine Path to Power. And so most of you, I think by now, probably know that my mom died when I was 10, and so I got the vast majority of my sex ed in school, and it basically consisted of learning how to put a condom on a banana, and there were lots of cautions about not getting pregnant. And so I read Anita Franco's autobiography a few months ago, actually, and she had mentioned that she often feels a burst of creativity around the time of her period, and that's, I'm pretty sure, the first time I'd ever heard of such a concept. And then when I read Alexandra and Sjanie's book Wild Power, I felt, really for myself, an incredible sense of sadness for the awareness of my menstrual cycle that I've missed throughout my own life, as well as a sense of excitement for the potential of supporting my daughter Carys in having a much greater knowledge of her own body than I've had about mine. So Alexandra Pope and Sjanie Hugo Wurlitzer are the co-founders of Red School and co-authors of Wild Power: Discover the Magic of the Menstrual Cycle and Awaken the Feminine Path to Power. Their latest book is Wise Power: Discovering the Liberating Power of Menopause to Awaken Authority, Purpose and Belonging. Their books and courses help us to understand menstruality as not just something we have to live with, but as a force that can guide us and from which we can draw strength, creativity and leadership, as well as tenderness, nurturing and surrender. And between them, they bring over 45 years of experience. They teach worldwide on the psycho- spiritual process of maturation that unfolds from menarche to menopause and beyond. And I would encourage really everyone to listen to this episode, whether you will menstruate or are partnered with someone who does, whether you have a child who will menstruate or might be partnered with someone who does, one day, I think the world will really be a better place if we all have this information and can better support the huge number of people around the world who do menstruate. All right. Welcome to the show, Alexandra and Sjanie, so great to have you here.

Thank you. Lovely to be with you. Jen.

Lovely and so I want to start with the absolute basics, right? And make sure we're not assuming any knowledge, because I'm sure they're going to be single parents out there who have never menstruated and who don't have anyone to ask about this kind of thing, which is its own issue, I'm sure. Can you first help us understand what is menstruation?

Me? Over to you, yeah, I mean, come on, this is what all began, Alexandra with you in menstruation.

Well, gosh, I'm gonna have to speak about biology here and get my brain cranky in. Okay, so the menstrual cycle is the fertility cycle. It's how we're all here on the planet. And of course, we're not all making babies every month. So at the midpoint of the cycle, we ovulate. I'm not going to go into all the details of it. And for that ovulation, if that ovulation does not turn into a, you know, conception, then what happens is, in 14 days later, is that we will release the lining of the womb, so the womb is building up, you know, in the second half of the cycle, to receive that fertilized egg and to grow the baby. And when that egg, of course, is not fertilized and there's no baby growing, then the womb sloths off what it has been building up to nourish the growth of that baby. And that comes out as blood and tissue, and that is the physical phenomena of menstruation. And it, you know, a menstrual cycle, classically in inverted commas, is about 28 days. And of course, there's variations on the theme of that. And yes, I think that's probably all I'd want to say about it.

Yeah, okay, and I'll add just another layer, because this is really where our work comes in, is that menstruation is both the ending of a cycle and it is the beginning. So it's a very powerful and significant moment in this monthly rhythm that brings about a culmination of and a fulfillment of something, a completion and ending of something which is both biological and physiological. But what we're really interested in is the psychological, emotional and spiritual layer of that experience, and it is also the moment in the cycle where we come into a new beginning, where we are, if you like, reborn new there's a psychological refreshment that happens. There's an emotional renewal that comes, and it's a new beginning for us, much like the dawn of a new day. Yeah. So that's really significant, I think, to add.

That's the piece that was missing in my education. That you mentioned Alexandra, but I completely missed the piece that Sjanie mentioned because in biology class, of course, they go through the basics of this is what happens in the uterus, right? And, but they don't talk anything about psychological, spiritual didn't get that anywhere. So, so the two of you have this vision, I think, for what menstruation could be like, right? For what the menstrual cycle could be like. Can you tell us about what your vision is like, what would what would you like us to experience it as in an ideal world?

Well, maybe I'll start by picking up from where you left off there, Jen about what we're taught about the menstrual cycle. So this biological and physiological literacy is such an important piece. I mean, we do need to know our bodies, and we really do need to understand the physiology of it, but that is just the foundation of our experience. But there is this whole other layer of the experience, which we talk of as emotional literacy, which is really understanding how that physiological change impacts us mentally, emotionally and spiritually. And we've really coined this phrase and practice, which is menstrual cycle awareness, that describes that process of paying attention to getting to know, listening and responding to that ebb and flow of mood and energy throughout the menstrual month. This is what our work is really all grounded in. So wow, when you ask us about what our vision is, I mean in in its simplest terms we are really holding to the restoration of that layer of knowledge that has been so suppressed and lost for a very, very long time.

Something which is, there's a sort of you talked about, you know, learning about the biology of the cycle which is happening. But I don't believe they're actually taught how to really chart that experience in their bodies. You see, that's this body literacy and emotional literacy, to be able to to be able to read the signs and signals of your own body, so you know when you're ovulating and when menstruation is due, that is a profound learning in in embodiment, in knowing yourself and in and of itself. It's just cool. It's just, it's so it's like, yeah, it's empowering. You're inside something. And then the layer that Sjanie is talking about here, this emotional literacy layer, or what we call the sort of self-care layer of menstrual cycle awareness, just rides on the back of that, you know, embodied experience at the cycle. It's this other layer, and the two together are the most potent combination for empowerment of young women and people who menstruate. It's just foundational for our health and well-being at all levels.

You want to socialize and and you might notice at menstruation how you want, Oh, Jesus, I do not want to even look at another email or, you know, put another meal on the table for anybody. I just want to go away and hide. And when you know that information about yourself, and you make it right, because there's a marvelous intelligence and cyclical consciousness. You start to organize your life around that, and this brings you into much greater ease within yourself. So I think of menstrual cycle awareness as you having this umbilical cord. It's like an umbilical cord to yourself, to your needs, to your boundaries, to your strengths and your vulnerabilities. Now you're learning in the way that we teach about it. You really get to know all those things and knowing that and making who you are okay very valuing and validating this person that you are builds this inner dignity Jen and this inner capacity to take your own side. So people often comment to us after they practiced menstrual cycle awareness for a little while, they just notice they have greater confidence in themselves. They feel a greater capacity to assert their needs. It is like an act of affirmation of yourself and my goodness, do we need as much affirmation as we can get for ourselves, absolutely.

And it's really interesting that you mentioned the word dignity, right? That was something I really latched on to as I was reading your your sort of vision for for what menstrual cycle awareness could be like in the world, and that we might see it, understand it, respect it, and and thus exist in the world with a sense of dignity that I think to some extent is kind of lacking. Do you want to speak any more about sort of how you wish we could experience this?

Menstrual cycle awareness sits within a context of us just being more cycle literate. You know, it just to be, to be honoring cyclical life more. And it amuses you now, because suddenly everyone's woken up to the fact that you have to sleep at night. You have to have sleep. It's the, it's the buzzword out there. Now you've just got to have sleep, you know, and at night, and this is honoring the circadian rhythm, because they've discovered this is just such a basic medicine that can't be replaced by anything else. Hello, cyclical intelligence at work. We are not automatums. We don't just keep going going going. And actually, by the way, machines don't keep going, going, going. They break down. The wisdom of cyclical intelligence iss it that it reminds us there's a time for activity and there's a time for rest. There's time to be out there doing stuff, and there's time to reflect and be with yourself, and it is this respect of rhythmic life that is most needed in our times, because it would then include respect for nature and nature's rhythms, rather than beating nature to be constantly productive and consuming, um, producing and you know, but you know, the soil needs to rest, to regenerate. It's on all levels, you know, our soil, our psyches, our souls, our bodies, need this rhythmic life, and we would love to see menstrual cycle awareness, or the menstrual cycle respected as well.

There is a movement to have it respected as the fifth vital sign that this should be just common as part of you know, you go to the doctor and your pulses at your heart's check this, you know, and what's your menstrual cycle saying, because it gives feedback about your overall health. So at that basic level, but that it is just core to our experience of being women and people who menstruate and and that it's normal and that it's healthy, and it's a vitalizing system within us. And so when menstrual cycle, when the menstrual cycle is respected, then we then respect the beginning of that journey at menarche, because far too many young people are stumbling girls and young people are stumbling into their menstruating years without any proper, heartfelt relational education around this. That's really holds. Person and affirmative, and not just technical. And that sets them up. That sets up their relationship to their menstrual cycle for their life. So that's a way of setting up their relationship to themselves, Jen and and it puts them on a wholesome path with themselves. And just at a fundamental level, their self care level, their mental health level, you know. And then, of course, the end of the journey, menopause would then be respected. The whole story would be respected. And of course, we'll be talking about menopause with you.

Very soon. Yes, Sjanie, did you want to add to that?

No, I'm just loving everything you're saying. And really, I think just to echo that this practice of cycle awareness is as much about us being restored to sustainable, cyclical leveling personally, as it is about creating a culture of cyclicity in our world, and moving us out of this linear Do, do, do consciousness, and really bringing us as a people, back into our relationship with the natural world, which is cyclical. So really at its heart, you know, that's, that's the vision we're holding, yeah, and the effects of that are going to be profound, yeah, and

We're not quite there yet. We're working on it as fast as we can. Yeah, because is do, do, do, right, go, go, go, all the time. Everything should be the same all the time. Everything should be productive all the time. That women should be productive all the time. People in menstruate should be productive all the time. I, when I was preparing for this episode, I put up a bunch of questions in my Parenting Membership community, and one of the parents who responded said that they had had an interaction with a colleague, and I'm going to paraphrase, but the colleague or the member, had said something like: you know, I don't think that people who menstruate should have to work when when they're menstruating, if they're not feeling well. And the colleague responded something like, well, don't you know that women have only had the right to work for 100 years, and in many places, still don't have the right to work. And it's sort of this view that we should just keep going no matter what, and your your body exists only to do labor, and it must happen the same way all the time to be convenient to me, your boss, to the company, to everybody else. And so, you know, you write in the book that the cycle isn't the problem. The cycle reveals a problem. If you expect yourself to be the same all the time, you'll feel tripped up by your cycle. And so we're we're sort of, you know, becoming aware of this. Some people have been aware of it for a long time. Some of us less so, and hoping through this episode that we can raise our children who will menstruate to have this knowledge at a much earlier age than we did, so that they don't have to go through life in the same way that we have gone through even though our culture at all times is shaping them and saying, No, it's not cyclical. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. So I know that was a statement rather than the question, but I know, I know you're going

To add some on just come in with a comment here about it's not that the cycle will interrupt things, but your health will, because no human being can keep going all the time. The damage to our bodies and the damage to our souls is is so counterproductive, it's so inefficient. You know, cyclical consciousness is sustainable. Work is a sustainable way of being, and it's eminently you know, if we want to speak the capitalist language for a moment, it's eminently effective and efficient. I really want to emphasize that, because I, you know, I mean, there's nothing convenient about menstruation where, you know, when we are living at full belt. I just want to really acknowledge that. But actually, what, in the end, we need to give thanks to it, because it's reminding us we're not machines, and we need to stop and we need to rest. And actually, because it brings us back into ourselves and refreshes us. It reawakens our creativity. It reawakens our ideas, our possibilities. And you know, I really enjoy it when Sjanie has her bleed. Well, I always go, what you bleed again? You know it's like because we always have tons of stuff.

Didn't you just have it what you've got to add more rest. It's a running joke with us. And, yeah, but, and, you know, she takes, she takes some space for herself, the rest. But the thing that I enjoy about it is that I know that when she comes back, she has ideas. She comes back with things I kind of look forward to it. Actually I go, it doesn't, it'll happen, you know, maybe on maybe day four or five, suddenly, you know, wow, the cylinders are firing well in her beam, but also her brain. And you know, so because you're such a visionary Sjanie and menstruation is this sort of natural visionary timing, and it just kind of comes out of you. So it's a real boon to us at Red School.

Yeah, it's such a good point, Alexandra, because when we all know this experience of like living our lives in doing mode, and nothing interesting comes in, we're just kind of on a hamster wheel and quite mechanical with what we're doing. And the moment we step out of that doing mode in our lives, whether it is to take a holiday or because we're sick or, God bless us, because we're bleeding, if that's you know, ideally, that's the way we come to stop. The moment we step out of that doing mode and drop our agenda, drop our responsibilities and just let go and have some empty space. Suddenly life can reach us. You know, it really is that thing of all that's been kind of waiting, waiting for your attention, all the stuff that really matters, you know, the new the immersion, the possibility, the vision, it's all been kind of sitting there waiting for you to just bloody stop, and then when you do so, I mean, sometimes it happens, you know, when you when you've had a good sleep or something, you wake up and suddenly you just know all the answers to all of life's problems. Menstruation is exactly that. So you know, this idea that a workforce is only effective if it's constantly doing is so narrow-minded and so short sighted, it really isn't valuing all the different phases of creating, because doing nothing is a very important aspect of creating anything great in the world, you know, you know, yeah, so, yes. How fun would it be if that was built into the workforce? I think businesses would be a much more efficient, moral place can I just say.

You're giving me all kinds of ideas for the people. We change culture where we can and so. So, you know, there are some of us who run our own businesses, who have a lot of autonomy in these kinds of things. There are many more of us who have much less autonomy, right? And so I'm thinking about listeners who are thinking, well, that all sounds amazing, right? Alexandra and Sjanie, I live in the real world where my hours are my hours, and I show up for my shift at a certain time, or the meetings are scheduled on my calendar from 7am to 7pm no matter what day of the month it is. So I'm wondering, can we talk through I mean, we could do it sort of, you know, children don't ever seem to take a break. Partners don't always understand that's the workplace, right? So we could do it sort of organized by by people or like, is the is the answer the same for all of the the different spheres we're expected to show up as 100% all the time?

Yeah, this is, this is the million dollar question in a culture that doesn't yet value menstruation and the power of rest at menstruation. So I think the first thing to say here is so much change happens when we practice menstrual cycle awareness. This is the beginning and the end of creating a culture shift in our families, in our work environments, in our communities, because when we're practicing cycle awareness, we at least are aware of what we're needing and when we're needing it. So that's number one. And the moment we have that awareness, we've suddenly got choice. We suddenly actually start to see how much agency we do have, and actually how much we can control things in our day. So you know the example of somebody who's got meetings scheduled from 7am to 7pm. Well, what about between 7pm and 7am? There's a whole lot of choice there, and based on where you are in your cycle? You can make a different choice for yourself. So I think I just want to really bring that in, because oftentimes we have more choice than we are aware of, and when we practice cycle awareness, suddenly that awareness opens up. So that's the first thing. But then the second thing is, yes, there are many moments where we don't have. Have control over our lives. And I think this is where menstrual cycle awareness gets really interesting, because it becomes about our relationship with ourselves and how we hold ourselves, how we care for ourselves, as we do the things we have to do. And again, I want to say there's like so much more leverage in that that we dare to even imagine. So I've got two daughters, and I'm just thinking about, you know, now they're 13 and 10. I'm thinking about, particularly when they were younger, where there's a relentlessness to parenting. And I was homeschooling for a while. So yeah, I've really I've lived the real of this. And if I know that I'm bleeding and I'm aware of my need to go more slowly, and I'm aware of my need to give less and receive more, I can go about my day with my children in a very different way. Sure, they may still have the same demands and needs, but I can choose to respond to those in very different ways, in ways that honor my need as well. And

Give an example of that like practically?

Practically. Okay, so, mama, mama, we really want to go outside and play. Can't we go to the park? Can we go to the park? Can we get one our friends and go to the park? I'm like, and I would consider it, and I would think, okay, I can go to the park as long as I don't have to rush to get there, because getting out the house is the most stressful part. And if we're not meeting one anyone there, I don't have a deadline or a time or anyone else that I've got to engage with. So we can go as long as we can go in on my rhythm and in my time, and also, when we get to the park, I'm going to be very clear with them that I'm going to go, I'm not going to be pushing them on the swing this time and doing all those things. I'm assuming they're an age where they're not going to be falling off the climbing frame in this little scenario. So I'm going to be sitting down and resting. And please don't ask me every five minutes to come push you, because I'm willing to go to the park, but I'm not willing to do all that high energy stuff.

Not willing to, what a beautiful boundary.

So that kind of little tweaking makes all the difference, and then actually going to the park could actually turn out to be really nice, because I'm outdoors, you know, and my kids are happy, and there's a peacefulness there, so it could actually really meet my need, yeah.

Lovely example. Thank you. Appreciate that.

I'm just thinking of the power of these micro moves that we make that sourced from this all important thing of recognizing you have a menstrual cycle and and respecting it. And the moment you you do that, then something shifts in your psyche. And as we said earlier about menstrual cycle awareness, you see, you can just do that in the privacy of your own world. No one has to know, not even partners you know. The moment you start to practice it, it's like a whole world opens up within you and this and of course, with time, then this rising kind of confidence in yourself, there's some sort of momentum that then kicks off, and then it is just these tiny, micro moves that happen almost by themselves. It might be a casual conversation. The words just come out of your mouth one day with your best friend, you know, and and who has children, and you go, well, maybe we could help each other out. You know, when I'm menstruating, you know, I could call on something from you, or something like that. I mean, I remember a group of moms from a particular school did this came up the phrase Raised the red flag, you know. You know, they could, they could, they could just, they had little signals with each other. So, yes, they had bit size. They rushed around and but, you know, they turn up at the school gates and they go, Oh, we relate each phase to a season of menstruation is in a winter and the premenstrual was in an autumn. They turn up at the school gates, going on. It's, it's autumn, taught them, they go, okay, got it, you know? And they just sort of relate differently, you know, it's those subtle, small things that are so powerful and equally in the workplace. In the workplace, it's a lot more edgy and but there's something about your growing dignity within yourself, that something starts to become non negotiable, that you find the gaps to a conversation, and actually you see conversations. I don't know about the US, but in the UK, conversations are happening now around workplace policies in the UK and in Australia, big time, because a colleague of ours has done amazing work in this area. And there's a marvelous book of that's about research that's been done and is being used to build workplace policies. It's brilliant. It's called, it's called, It's About Bloody Time. Is the name of the book.

It is absolutely clear this book into the research, and one of the authors is Jane Bennett, and it's so brilliantly argued. And, you know, the union organization out there, I can't think what it's called now in Australia, you know, they're sort of using it to think about workplace policies for for the menstrual cycle and menopause, because menopause now is really in the spotlight and having policies, I mean, in the UK, it's being spoken about at government level too now. So yeah.

Nobody's Talking about it here forrom my knowledge. We got a ways to go. So, but something you said to me really kind of resonated this idea that we can know it ourselves, that we can make these shifts ourselves. And I know in the book that you talk about so the big picture, right? If you had no cares or commitments, what would you love to do? And then is there a way you could give yourself 1% of that is sort of a big picture way, but when you were just talking that this bottom up way kind of came to me of, well, you know, what if I worked in a call center, for example, maybe, maybe the week that I'm menstruating is just not the week that I'm going to go after, like the person who handles the most number of calls, right? What if I have a corporate job and I'm in meetings from seven to seven? What if there's a like a town hall that I have to show up to? My name has to appear on the call list, but I could take it from bed with my eyes closed, right? And I'm thinking about all the little subtle, you know, even if I'm in sort of a forward, facing customer service role, can I just pause and take a breath in between helping the next customer, right? It seems that there are those little micro moments that we can find to nourish ourselves and take care of ourselves throughout our days, if we know to look for them.

Yeah, those examples are so good, Jane, you are so right. These little things make all the difference, because they start to change, well, the pace of our day, but they also are accommodating for our nervous system, and that is so much of what cycle awareness is about. It's really about regulating your nervous system through each phase of the cycle. You know, we really talk about pacing your nervous system. So when you do these little things, like choose not to be on camera in a video call and just do a voice call, for example, when you're bleeding, that's a big thing. Not having eyes on you when you're bleeding really helps our nervous system equally, like having a lot of stimulation when we're bleeding, outer stimulation, loud noises, you know, listening to things and so on. So we might drive our car with the radio off, for example, when we're bleeding. And all these little things are helping to accommodate for the needs of our body, our nervous system and so on. And that is just so foundational to our health and happiness. You know, never mind our creativity and parenting and all that. You know, parenting, you just parenting with a dysregulated nervous system, is just, it's a show. Really. You don't want to cycle awareness can help with that. It's such a big way because, yeah, you're connected to yourself, your own needs, and immediately you can create connection with others, you know, your children, for example. Yeah,

Alexandra, looks like you have something to add.

No, I'm just really enjoying what Sjanie is saying.

Yeah, so then to piggyback off the you know, parenting with a dysregulated nervous system, an idea that that really stuck out to me in wild power is the role of the inner critic in the cycle, would never have occurred to me that that the role of you know that this, this voice in our head that is not necessarily very helpful to us, might have some connection to our menstrual cycle. And so for people who are hearing this for the first time and are having a hard time with their kids and they're hearing this voice, you should be doing better. You know the tools. You know what to do differently. Why can't you just do it differently? Can you. Speak a little bit about where the inner critic shows up in our monthly cycle, and what, what role you see it having?

Yeah, that's a good question. It's a very Wow. Well, well, firstly, I think we might bat the ball backwards and forwards. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, maybe we should just maybe we should start by saying the inner critic is an ever present aspect of ourselves that will constantly be commenting on who we are and what we do. But there is something very specific, through the phases of the menstrual cycle, that really, I want to say, lets the inner critic out of the box, in a big way, amplifying that voice and almost giving that part of ourselves the microphone, and it can seem, at times, all the power. So that's something that we have become aware of through practicing menstrual cycle awareness and through all the people we've worked with, is that the power of your inner critic, you know, the strength of its voice and the venom with which it speaks to you, is affected by where you are in your cycle and on in a very on a very simple level, that has something to do with what I was saying about our nervous system and this thing of how our menstrual cycle helps us to pace ourselves, so in the first three seasons of the cycle, so the inner winter, the inner spring, the inner summer, menstruation, pre-ovulation and ovulation, our nervous system is more robust. I mean, really, actually starting from the inner spring, this is true, but there is something very specific that's also happening at menstruation that helps kind of create a feeling of inner protection or inner sanctuary. But then come the inner autumn, there's this increased vulnerability that starts to happen in our system. You know, we become more sensitive, we become, I want to say, more fragile. Our resilience drops, our energy levels drop. And a combination of all these things makes us more susceptible to this critical voice inside us. Yeah, so the inner autumn is a sort of very ripe territory for the inner critic to come out, or guns blazing.

If you are practicing menstrual cycle awareness and honoring your cycle, you learn to you learn to sort of capitalize on different aspects of the cycle that sort of prepare you to meet that inner critic. So if you're honoring your cycle as best you can, but let's say you're living in an ideal world, okay, and you get to really rest at menstruation. Menstruation just really restores you to yourself. And it's like this incredible use of phrase mother hug. It's like an affirmation, oh yeah, I'm okay. And this feeling of love and, and, but you also you're just resting, resting, and resting at menstruation just is just more potent than at any other time in the cycle. So it's like you're tanking up on energy and also tanking up on love, for want of a better word, and, and in the first half of the cycle, there is this expansion of energy. And it's a bit like spring, you know how we all feel? And when spring comes, it's like, oh yes, you know, new life is new possibility and, and it has that we have that same energy in us. And this is, this is very affirming of our psyche. So it's like this, yes, in our psyche, where and when we learn how to pace that spring energy, we are really building what we call healthy ego strength just gradually, gradually, you're you're riding that rising energy, and you're learning to kind of strap your stuff, and then in the ovulatory phase, the summer of the cycle, there's a real you reach the sort of pinnacle of that expansion where you and you can, you know, almost feel like you're superwoman, if you have cared for yourself in all phases, and as a sense of being of real mastery, and you know you're in charge of your life, and all is good, and you've got a really good, healthy sense of your own ego. Just really good, healthy ego building stuff in the first half of the cycle, and then what happens with the second half of the cycle is the energy starts to contract, because you're now being pulled back in again, back to menstruation. And so this is Sjanie spoke about increasing vulnerability here and lowering energy. And if you're not resourced, you haven't resourced yourself enough, you know, haven't rested well at menstruation, and perhaps done far too much in your ovulatory time. You can often feel a bit of a crash here. But the more you practice cycle awareness, the sort of smarter you get about the whole thing. So when you arrive in the inner autumn, and the energy shifts, and you feel yourself drawing in, and yes, you feel yourself becoming more vulnerable, more exposed to yourself, you start to see yourself, and you see your shadow side. Oh, it's not pretty. You know, our shadow sides never that pretty and but if you're able to just really meet it, to manage your energy, the pace of your energy, and care for yourself, you can meet the shadow side. And of course, this is where the critic comes in, because it's you are more permeable at this point. You don't have the same egoic buffering, but you do have some. It's where there's none that this part of the cycle can feel quite annihilatory, and people can have quite extreme, you know, mental health issues, a PMS, PMDD, that happens. I don't want to reduce those just to that, but because it's also health, other health stuff going on, but it's a very big component of it. So yes, you're just much more exposed to that critical energy. Oh, and by the way, you can dish out this critic very, very well to the rest of the world. Now I'm going to do a little PR.

So little PR job on the critics, because right now, it's not looking like a good force to have, but we all know that if we don't get critical feedback on what we're doing in life. We'll never grow. We'll never mature. But there's a difference between judgmentalness and criticalness, and our critics really usually slam everything about us, and we have to learn to go and learn it. You're not allowed to comment on who I am. But yeah, okay, so you're telling me I'm shit at relationships or, you know, I didn't handle that situation with my child very well. Okay, let's have a look at it, you know, because it's commenting on something you've done. So this is where the act of engaging with your inner critic really starts to grow your strength, your power more, because you have to take your own side, and you also have to have sufficient humility to meet that critical entry, because maybe there's some truth in it, you know, and this is exactly the same without a critics as well. So it applies in both situations, so in learning to actually do all that healthy self-care stuff, so you're in a more resourced place. This is fundamental, and you have some fundamental sense of okayness in yourself, a capacity to care for yourself and assert your needs, the more you can meet that inner critic in a creative way, and, you know, address what it's saying. Well, I just was just thinking, I just want to add one other thing, you know, I have to say it's sort of Pavlovian, and it way it just reacts. And I just say, I just said, piss off. Piss off. I'm not interested piss off, because it's just like a Pavlovian reaction. And I do listen to my critic as well. Sjanie over to you.

Yeah. So to that piece, it's true. Oftentimes it is just like a broken record that says the same thing over and over to us. But what's really good in the inner autumn because we we are much more connected to ourselves in the inner autumn, we really are, it's a much more inner, focused time, we can actually hear a little more closely what the critic is actually trying to say to us. So in terms of parenting, I'm I'm very grateful to my inner critic, because aside from all the abuse that it tells at me when I when I can really stop and listen. It's a very good reality check in terms of my parenting. It can really pull me out of my own sort of, my own patterns, my own conditioning. My own sort of automatic, habitual ways of doing things that are probably, you know, inherited from how my parents parented me, and are probably coming from a sort of wounded place, rather than a conscious, empowered place. So my inner critic really pulls me up on that, and kind of gives me this reality check and gets me thinking more creatively about what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. And in some ways, this is, I think, what conscious parenting is, is actually letting the voice of our inner critic have time and space enough that we can reflect on our own parenting and reflect on ourselves as parents, and our own conditioning and our own wounding and so on and so forth. But having said that, to do any of this, you do need time and space for yourself, so the inner autumn actually means you need better boundaries with around parenting that you aren't available all the time that you get help in, or you call on other people, or you you create situations in your family life where you can step out and have this time and place for yourself. No, I think so many mothers are really relieved to hear that the inner summer of the menstrual cycle is when we can be the kind of mother that we're supposed to be in inverted commas, you know, like super mom. We do everything, and we're amazing at it all with spinning, you know, with the house, that can be just rocking it. That's, you know, the kind of mother we all think we should be, the ideal mother. Well, the good news is we're only supposed to be that kind of mother for one season. We're a different kind of mother. We're a more boundaried, more detached mother. We're a mother that tends to our own needs. You know, where we bring a different kind of consciousness and presence, and we aren't all about the giving. We're now about giving some responsibility back to our children and our partners and, you know, extended family or whoever the heck we could call on. So yes, there's, there's, we are different mothers at different times, and I think that's quite a relief for a lot of parents to know.

So I so appreciate that, that thinking on the inner critic. And it kind of brings me to this idea of, I'm kind of wondering, are there any people for whom it maybe doesn't make sense to track their menstrual cycle awareness. This has been a huge, choppy of conversation in the Parenting Membership community ever since I announced that I was going to interview you. And there are some people who said, you know, I've had heavy periods my whole life, maybe up to 12 days, and being on the pill has finally evened things out, and I'm not as moody as I was, and it's not as long as it was. There are people who have experienced miscarriages losses, right? And this is just an incredibly painful thing for them to go through when they get to their bleed every month, and it reminds them of the grief and the loss that they felt in those difficult periods. And so I'm wondering, is there anyone who doesn't benefit from this? And what would you say to somebody who's in one of those positions?

Actually want to add infertility to that? People absolutely,

yeah,

frustration is just the pits. Yeah, interesting. It's a big question there. And you see, the thing is, not being aware of the menstrual cycle, I think, creates more tension and stress in our systems, and that that then works against us. So the act of menstrual cycle awareness is an act, or it's a medicine in and of itself, for all the reasons that we have spoken about so far, and I want to say it, when you're practicing cycle awareness, it becomes a kind of container that holds you so whatever You are struggling with is sort of held within that. Now I'm saying all this, bear with me. I'm saying all this very cautiously, because I think it's so important for every person to trust and know what they're ready for and what they need and what they want, and only know they know that. So I just want to emphasize that. So for the person who is on hormonal contraception to manage heavy bleeds, I would actually recommend you chart your pill induced cycle, because although it's not a menstrual cycle just starting, you still need to be to to have, you know, rest. You know it just reminds you of so when you have the breakthrough bleed, see that as menstruation and inverted commas, it's not menstruation, but see that your breakthrough bleed perhaps as a rest moment in your cycle. People and treat the awareness of your pill induced cycle as a self-care tool in the way that we speak about charting your menstrual cycle so that you're just building cyclical consciousness, because cyclical consciousness is medicine for us all in the ways we have been speaking about. So don't bully yourself to say, oh, I should come off the pill and talk to that. Just start practicing charting your pill induced cycle. And do you want to come? You come in here Sjanie?

Yeah, I'm just reflecting on what you were saying about those who are suffering, either with, you know, menstrual pain or heavy bleeding or huge grief when their period comes. And I completely understand that aspect of human nature, which is to pull away from what's difficult and from where there's suffering, and to not want to go there. It's a very beautiful design in our human psyches a kind of self-preservation, but it only serves us for so long, because where there's disconnection, there nothing can change. You know, there's a sort of stasis that sits sets in. We yeah, we land up, sort of getting entrapped in something, and it's not able to move or change, we're not able to evolve or change. So what menstrual cycle awareness does, even as it may seem hard or scary to turn towards our bodies and our cycles and ourselves when they when they have been the source of pain, what menstrual cycle awareness does is it brings us back into connection, and where there's connection, healing can happen. This is one of the kind of fundamental truths of healing. We know this is true in our relationship with our children. You know, when our children are really struggling or in a state of high emotional arousal, even if they're being really difficult, our impulse is to sort of pull away or to try and manage or control them or or sort of separate from them. But actually it's connection with them that helps them to move through that and to evolve and grow up and come out the other side. I mean, we've all seen this. When you can really connect with your child in that place of suffering, it's like they become enlightened on the other side of this. You know, suddenly they're, they're, they're like, a little bit older or a little bit more mature or something else comes back online. And the same is true with us. When we really move through these difficult experiences in ourselves and we're in connection with ourselves, we evolve through it, rather than staying stuck in that. And that is one of the great gifts of menstrual cycle awareness as a medicine and as a foundation for all healing is the way it brings us back into connection with ourselves and into contact with what we're actually feeling. So I really want to encourage anyone who is in that situation just to take the next step with cycle awareness, just day by day. No, just check in with yourself and where you're at and notice it, yeah, the small steps of cycle awareness every day ultimately will bring Yeah, good medicine.

Yeah. And it doesn't have to involve dramatic steps of changing birth control methods or anything like that. And one of the things that I loved in both of your books you talk about, you know, whatever we say, your experience trumps that. Your experience is something that you know better than anybody else, and so use use our words as a guide rather than the absolute truth. So, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you for such a beautiful conversation the honors listeners. I'm so grateful. I really appreciate you being here.

Yeah, thank you, Jen, it's really lovely to talk to you and everyone in your community. Thanks very much.

Real pleasure, Jen, having this conversation. Thank you so much.

Thank you. And so all of the references that I looked at for this episode, as well as Alexandra and Sjanie's book, there are two books that are linked there. The one that we talked about most in this episode was Wild Power: Discover the Magic of Your Menstrual Cycle and Awaken the Feminine Path to Power. All of that can be found at YourParentingMojo com/MCA.

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