Kelly  00:03

Hi. This is Kelly Peterson from Chicago, Illinois. There’s no other resource out there quite like Your Parenting Mojo, which doesn’t just tell you about the latest scientific research on parenting and child development, but puts it into context for you as well, so you can decide whether and how to use this new information. If you’d like to get new episodes in your inbox, along with a free infographic on 13 Reasons Your Child Isn’t Listening to you and what to do about each one, sign up at yourparentingmojo.com/subscribe. If you’d like to start a conversation with someone about this episode, or you know someone who would find it useful, please do forward it to them. Thank you so much.

Jen Lumanlan  00:56

Hello and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. We are here today with a very special guest. We are here with parent Laurie, and we’re going to talk a little bit about some changes she’s been making over the last few months in her parenting and her relationship with her kids. And we’re also going to do a bit of coaching as well, which I’m excited for too. So welcome Laurie. It’s so great to have you here.

Laurie  01:17

Oh, I’m so excited. It’s funny. I met once like incredibly excited to be with you, your work, actually having a conversation like this, you know, in daylight hours, not in the hash of midnight. You know, try to, and it’s also very serious and heavy. So it’s a very interesting contrast within and I’m trying to just hold it, hold it together.

Jen Lumanlan  01:37

Hold all of it at the same time. Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us. Yeah, it’s, it’s a little bit like that with me as well, right? Are we going to make sure that we cover things that listeners find interesting, and also, I know based on our previous interactions, you and I could just talk for hours. So yeah, so why don’t you just start off by telling us a little bit about who you are? Where are you, who’s in your family?

Laurie  01:55

Sure. So I live on the west coast of Canada in British Columbia, and I’m a mother of three sons. They are ages ten, seven and four and partnered. I have a husband, Jordan, and we’ve been married. It’s in that gray area where you think it’s 15 years, but it might be 18, it could even be 20, but been together very, very long time since my late 20s, and I started having kids later in life. So I had my first at 36 and my last at 42. I am currently 46 years old, and what’s I want to say about my family? There was something I wanted to I wanted to mention for sure that I thought was relevant to the course, but I’ll just leave it there. If you have enough.

Jen Lumanlan  02:42

Yeah, no  worries. And you’re a stay at home parent, right? I remember when you introduced yourself, you said, that’s a risky turn you didn’t see coming.

Laurie  02:49

This was it okay? So, yeah, there was two things I wanted to mention. And one, so I’ve been kind of working my whole life, and four years ago we had our last child. It was rate in the pandemic, the beginning of the pandemic. And there was some twists and turns I really did not see coming. I didn’t realize how exponentially the workload would increase with three. I know that sounds very idealistic and novel, but I was like, Oh, two, it’s good. It’s good. And then three, I was like, we have 16 kids now. Like, how does anybody do this? Then my eldest was being assessed for certain things, certain struggles were coming up, and we were very curious, but trying to be very open about it. And the school was very generous, but really insisted on a psycho educational assessment. Led to a few other things, and he was diagnosed with autism and about four other comorbidities, almost just like dominoes, like do, do, do, do so autism, ADHD, Developmental Coordination Disorder, some sensory processing issues and some learning challenges, and that change like, then things really, really opened up. And it wasn’t just like, worried with the school system of like, Oh, we got some sniffles, or everybody in our family sick. Again, it was, Oh, wow. Like, this is a whole new just world, and learning about terms like IEP, Individualized Education Plan and advocating and trying to teach my son to advocate. And really well meant, but limited resources within the public education system, and there’s so many, it just everything went and it felt like a part time job or a full time job, just trying to learn of that. And then lastly on that, what would end up happening is my job. They were wonderful. They tried to say, like, look, let’s do a jobshare with you. They were going to give me two days a week and then three days a week, type thing, with another person that was covering my leave, who is also wonderful. But it turned out even that the way I would get called into the school for different meetings and this and that, and this specialist and that specialist and and. Still trying to have a one year old, a two year old, and my person in kindergarten. And then lastly, it ended up to get into the financial I don’t recovering all the heavy stuff, the money stuff, but it would be like I would be paying $25 a month to have my kids in care. So it ended up being the salary I would have made, wouldn’t have even covered the childcare. And I was devastated. I was gutted because I, just before I had actually got my first, like, managerial role, so I’ve been working, and I was like, like, I’m I’m doing it, you know, my Mary Tyler Moore hat, like, I’m doing it, and I know doing it. And I kids amazing. And it just kind of slowly these things started happening. I was like, oh, and my hat’s kind of like, you know, trampled on the ground somewhere right now. Like, I was like, well, that part has to just go here for now. And we just couldn’t afford to actually have me work, which I know sounds bizarre, and now we’re at the place where we can’t afford for me not to be working. So now I’m trying to claw my back, way back into professional career. Well, still dealing with the with the staff and my youngest will go to kindergarten next year. So this very long answer, but I did not see any of that coming. I worked through all my other kids, young person hoods, in a lot of ways. And then this one, I was like, oh, okay, here we are.

Jen Lumanlan  06:25

Yeah so you’ve talked through a lot of changes happening, yes, and I am just imagining all of the things in all of that, right, all of your kids diagnoses, and the amount of time that it’s going to take to navigate the school system and all of the appointments and everything else and not working anymore, right as you are starting to meet your need for competence in your work in a way that is really meaningful to you. And I’m wondering if maybe any of this is linked to triggered feelings, perhaps, did they start coming out a little bit more than they had?

Laurie  06:57

Oh my gosh. I Oh, Jen, it is so lovely to talk to you. I wish we could be have this three day conversation marathon. I is so I feel seen in a way. I’m almost like tearing up. I haven’t been able to say The Mary Tyler Moore, you know, hat and then down on the ground, because it’s almost you don’t I don’t want to make anybody feel bad in my family. Of what of some of the things that was a necessity to kind of keep our stuff going. I felt I’ve had anger my whole life. I felt anger, and I know how to handle it, but this rage was a different story. Like this felt like I wasn’t in control, and it is really the antithesis of how I want to show up as a parent or person or partner in any way, and so, and I’m deeply ashamed of it. So this is the heavy part where I’m really excited to talk to you, but I’m also like, Oh, please don’t make me talk about this. I don’t want to talk about this at all. This is, like, kind of humiliating, but also so important to talk about. So what would happen is it wouldn’t be my children that would set me off so much I had a lot of kind of space for them, although there was moments for sure, but it was my partner, and little things became things that I was ready to burn it all down like, and I met like I was ready to be like the rage would come up so quick, and it would be something as simple as he left all the goldfish crackers out in the cupboard, and at that time, we were dealing with a mouse problem. And part of me was like, Are you kidding me? Like I was ready, like the monster within my inner Ursula with all eight tentacles wanted to come out and tear everything down, and it was very ugly, very painful, and I had to just, I didn’t even know how to hold it, like the rage was so this, and the other thing was, is I’m right in perio menopause, and I think that’s kind of a magical, amazing Time. It’s also incredibly challenging, but I think my inner anything I’ve pushed down, it’s coming, like it’s coming for me and it’s going to come out now, this is the time of my life where, and it just so coincides, because I had kids later that it’s like I’m also going to have young kids during this transition and a marriage that we’ve kind of defaulted and, oh my God, what did I do to my career, you know? And if something happened to my partner, I don’t, I can’t even, I’m not even working to provide for my family. So all these things that I said, Oh, I’ll never, you know, I’ll never be all those. And it’s like, Oh no, I am all of those, check, check, check, at the same time. But it was the rage that frightened me. And really I thought, Oh, I’ve I’ve got to do something like this isn’t and what it was, it wasn’t even that I was conscientious of the harm and effect that I was having on my partner. Oh, this is gonna make me cry. But it was just seeing my kids being afraid. Right? So long story. When my son was diagnosed with autism, about six months later, he gave a presentation to his grade three class about having autism. It was so beautiful and touching and incredible and just the way kids are. It was so in the moment and present, and the kids were really cool with each other, and he had to introduce us, and he introduced his status, like, really cool. His Job’s really cool. Look at my dad’s so cool. And I almost swallowed my tongue when it was his time to introduce me, because at that point, I wasn’t working, and he was just introducing people, their job is who they are, their job is who they are. And I thought, Oh, crap, what is about to come out of this kid’s mouth? And like, my mom does nothing, or uno like so I thought, oh. And what he said to the whole class was, this is my mom, and she is so calm and so loving. No matter what happens, she’s unflappable, she’s calm, she can handle it, and his words are big. I know that sounds like there’s no way that was one of the things that tipped us off. He has some really big words thrown in there every once in a while. And then I had to really swallow my tongue because I was about to cry in front of it, like, this was my parenting dream come true. Yeah, I didn’t grow up in a calm house. So it was like, You think I’m calm, like I just wanted to be like, I’m handling my shit. Like I wanted to be like, Yay, like I’m actually doing it. So fast forward two years later, I don’t think my son would say that about me right now. He has witnessed me rage against my husband. It scares the kids. And there’s no physical anything. It’s just the tone. It’s what comes over me. I don’t say much, but they can tell I’ve changed, and their calm center is, where is it? And I have been that calm center until I don’t know, I guess things got to be too much, and I didn’t know how to go forward. And so when I was listening to your podcast and different things, when it came to tame the triggers, I thought, Okay, do I jump in? I really was very nervous. I was scared. I thought, Oh, my God, who? Like, who am I gonna tell like, I just yelled at my husband in a way I would never accept anybody speaking to me this. Like, oh, I tell that to like, how do you, you know? And I thought it was the last second I wasn’t gonna register. I was, I wasn’t. I was, and at the last second I was like, Just do it. Just see what happens. You don’t even have to tell anybody. But just see.

Jen Lumanlan  12:40

Wow and little did you know that only a few months like, only a few months later, you’d be telling everybody

Laurie  12:45

Yes, well, because it’s so important, what happened. But I’ll let you, I’ll let you ask the question,

Jen Lumanlan  12:51

yeah, no. I mean, I just want to pause here really intentionally and just acknowledge the gift that you have given people who are listening to this episode, who are thinking very similar thoughts, who are having very similar feelings in their own families, and have been too scared to say anything about it to anyone and to know that they are not alone, right? This is not their unique failing. This is not something that they haven’t figured out. This is something that many, many, many parents go through. So thank you so much for trusting us. From Who am I going to tell? I’m going to tell everybody always. Yeah. So you came into the workshop and you set some intentions, right, what can you chose? What was, what was your purpose in joining? Right? What did you want to achieve when you signed up?

Laurie  13:40

So I had kind of like five intentions, and it was sort of almost like a rainbow or like an arc. So it started with, if I could actually achieve the first intention, the workshop would be well worth anything. But if I could get to level five, that’s my ultimate dream. And so it started with, can I hold rage? Can I at least not lash out or throw it on someone else. And can I recognize when it’s happening in my body? Is there a way I can discharge it without harm and also maybe stop it upstream? And that was if I could even understand, or even understand what is even happening, like, what is rage? Or, how is it am I? You know, how where is it coming from? And then number five, it kind of like it was like, do, do, do, do, and number five, was this gonna make me cry again too, but it was, Can I really enjoy and delight in my children and just see them? They’re really incredible people. See them as separate. People, separate from me, separate from my worries, separate from all the struggles, separate from my challenges. Can I have enough space to be with them and see them so that those that was like one to kind of five? So that’s the range of the intentions I set for the workshop.

Jen Lumanlan  15:02

Okay, and what kind of shifts did you start to see? I don’t know if you remember some early ones and kind of track it chronologically, or if there are big ones that really stand out, what comes up when I ask that question?

Laurie  15:13

Yeah. So I actually really, really sooned on, started to see some shifts which really surprised me and delighted me. One I should fully disclose, like my partner’s awesome, and he took the course to completely separate from me. We had different accountabuddies and different whatever, but I noticed right away in him a more gentle, kind approach with the children. And this was one of the things I would rage against, like us getting on the same page as parents and this gonna make me cry again. But I realized very quickly when I saw that, and I got that, I was amazed by him, and I would encourage him, and I would tell him it was beautiful to witness. It was so beautiful, and I was still in so much pain, like their stories. And I was like, Oh crap. I thought once he handled his stuff, I was gonna be in the goal, like it was gonna be golden. Like, get that, get that hat off the floor again and throw it in the air again, because we did it. And it was like, Oh no. It was almost like the horror music at the beginning of the shining up my neck. Like, just like, oh, this is going to be differe course, than I thought, like, this is going to be different. So Jordan was having his own journey. It was really beautiful to see. And then I was sitting with, Oh, my goodness, there’s a lot in me that’s not quite right, or that that’s happening that I don’t, I’m not really aware of and at the same time, which was amazing to me, was I noticed I started sitting on the carpet with my kids more, whereas before, there’s always 15 other tasks and things to do. And like, oh yeah, just one minute. Just one minute. I think if my kids ever had to impersonate me, it would be like, hey, and then just one minute, yeah, just sec, just sec, and the, you know, and it would always be that, and all of a sudden I could cut through a bit of that noise and was like, Yeah, my house is messy. Like, there’s still Christmas decorations about having me on the wall, but like I’m sitting, like they’re telling me who they are. Like, I’m, I’m here for it, like it, I think I it’s that kind of perfectionism thing too, that unfortunately, kind of just snakes its way through dominant culture, but just that I thought I had to be, feel or be, or do a certain thing before I could actually, you know, be the parent I wanted to be, but to sit with. Oh, wait, you’re enough, exactly as you are. And if you can just sit on the ground with them, just breathe. So even in the first week, and not to give anything away, the course is so great, but you’re asking very poignant questions. And with that first week, I noticed I was spending more time with my kids in little chunks. I don’t have much time, even though it sounds like I might, but I might only have four minutes, but I would use three of them to just hang out and find out the story of like the there’s a whole Lego thing right here on the carpet by me, find out that story, and then the last minute, we brush teeth, get the shoes, I bring the coat in the car, and I wouldn’t push them to wear the coat, but I bring it for a and it was so much gentler. Everyone is like that, instead of just this, oh, this is what I gotta do. Oh, God, I got, you know. And, and if I don’t do this, you know, they’re never gonna grow up as independent, functioning like happy people, you know, and it’s like, okay, whoa. And then just to see that that’s mine, to be like, Oh no. And that was the creepy music thing where I realized all the stories, all the the pressure, all the I was like, Ah, this is my stuff I have to work with, yeah. So I realized I was probably going to be working a lot harder than my partner in the course.

Jen Lumanlan  19:02

Yeah and so I just want to pause on that moment for a minute on your how you use that four minutes, right? Because that’s a thing I hear a lot from parents who are new to the approach in Parenting Beyond Power in, you know, that we talk about here in the podcast and in the workshop. You know, I don’t have time to do all this stuff to figure out what’s going on with my kids every freaking time they resist me. But if you think about it, you had those four minutes. You could have spent those four minutes, okay, it’s time to go, it’s time to go, get your teeth brushed, get your get your jacket, get in the car, right? You could have spent your four minutes that way. Instead, you spent three of those minutes connecting with your kids. And then once you feel connected, they’re more willing to come on a journey with you, and you don’t have to be the one who’s you know, get your jacket. Do you have your jacket? Just bring it in the car with them, and then they can put it on if they want it when they get there. Right? We had a parent on one time who gave an amazing trick of you brush the teeth in the car, just bring the toothpaste on the toothbrush, stick it in a cup, and then they can spit into the cup when they’re done. And right? These are the kinds of strategies we can find when we’re leading with that connection. And we find that we still have the time, because we were going to use it either way, and it’s really, you know, what do we want to use it on?

Laurie  20:06

Yes, and I have to say what you’re saying. It just pops off in my head. I was less directive. I realized that most of the way I’m communicating, in language with my children, at least, is like, do this. Don’t, did you get this done? Oh, sorry, this isn’t. Oh, that’s not how we, you know, or like, no matter how nice or kind or Mr. Rogers type way I’m trying to talk about how we tie our shoes or not, I’m being direct. I’m not knowing them as people like, I’m playing that this role of this like, kind of powerful, omnipresent, sort of, like, role that knows, and there is something, and I know there is, like, you definitely have to be an adult and God and all this, but there was something so liberating, and the same with your parent that figured out we can brush teeth in the car. Like there’s something so nourishing, or something it does to my own heart, like in a way that I’m like, Oh, wow, and it’s not all the time. There’s so much noise I have to fight through to even get to sit for those three minutes. It sounds easy. I might only do that once a week in seven days, like I don’t. I’m not doing this all the time, but when I do do it, it really reinforces something in me. And then our car drive to school, or bike ride or a walk is so less pressurized. It’s not about the homework or, Oh, I forgot this, and, oh, my God, it was this, you know, wear a funny hat day, and we didn’t. It’s amazing what creativity and collaboration, like your book. It’s amazing what that connection creativity collaboration like, I didn’t have a thing, and my, my kiddo was like, I’ll just use this. And we worked and and he’s happy. He’s empowered. He’s got, he’s not feeling shame. Like, oh my God, all the kids in the class are gonna think. Like, it was so I had, I almost, like, couldn’t catch my breath for how like, like, that’s yeah, and it didn’t, it wasn’t directed for me. Like, I probably would’ve been like, Let’s drive home. We’re gonna be late. We’re gonna be late. We’ll get your hat. Like it was him, like he had the solution, and he felt wonderful, and we were on time. And there he goes. And it, your course, gives you that, just that courage to pause before you jump in with all the things you’re quote, supposed to or have to, or it just gives you that courage to just pause for a second because it there’s, there’s amazing, like, if you can kind of pause for a second and see your kid like and, and yourself, and I think, and you have a wonderful language, of course, speaking about all this and and the evidence and the science and Everything behind it, but, but just something in that pause. It really, oh, it’s just very cool. It’s just very cool. And like I said, I mean, I sound like I do it all the time, absolutely not like, you know, I’m trying, but the more I do, the more it’s like I’m building towards where I’d like to be.

Jen Lumanlan  22:59

Yeah so it seems as though playing with your kids, right? Taking those couple of minutes to play with your kids has been really instrumental in shifting the dynamic that you have with them. And I’m wondering if there are just one or two other tools that you found particularly helpful, that you have started to put into practice, and that you’ve seen changes in yourself or your family members.

Laurie  23:17

Yes, and I do want to say with playing with the kids, I know the goal is to try to get that 10 minutes, one on one time, and I’m working towards it. And just even the little bits I’m getting, it’s amazing what I’m seeing. So, yeah, just to, just to highlight the, not perfect, you know, and the stuff, but it’s working towards it, you know, it’s kind of the messy beauty of it. There were, okay, yeah, there’s a lot, but I want to say having an accountabuddy like in the program is so instrumental. I feel like in gently getting to see your own pain or your own reflection or your own experience, and incredibly healing, because you hear somebody struggling with maybe something you are but you haven’t really been able to say or share with somebody. It’s a really wonderful space. And what I want to say is I had three accounbuddies, and we met every Saturday night, and it was almost like such a friendship to kind of meet on a Saturday night. It felt like a fun thing. And I’m pretty playful, like as a person, it felt like this. We did a bit of music, you know? We did was playful and incredibly cathartic, and talking about the hard stuff and just being present, and sometimes you wouldn’t say anything at all. And what we ended up doing was a little bit after time, because we’re all four strangers. We don’t know each other, but after time, we realize pointing out what each person did well, or the change we saw in them really worked like worked so well to kind of reaffirm, or almost like light the fire a bit more, to keep going in the direction that we want to go, and a person in the program who was not my accountabuddy is the one that I would love to credit for the hugest shift. I know that sounds dramatic, but I want to say it at the top, but I feel like your course and this person’s comments very well could be the saving pivotal 180 for my marriage, which I think I very grateful for. And it was through another participant, complete stranger to me, that in one of the modules, it’s posted and you can kind of give your thoughts or what you’re struggling with, and you know, and your incredible Jodi, Corey and Denise too were incredible in catching us and just, you know, just being in it with us. It was really, really, really awesome. And I finally said to the group, in a way, I’ve been kind of teasing, but kind of this and that, but I gave an example of me raging at my partner and just and not even trying to just fire and hit just the ugly truth. There it is, in the light and left it. And was like, and it was a completely different participant who commented. So first of all, just to be hanging out there like that and to have someone comment was incredible, that in and of itself, was enough, but she was experiencing kind of an aversal of roles for who the breadwinner was and wasn’t in their family, and the different ways that her and her partner were struggling. And it was like all the modules at this point, it was like everything went to click. And I was like, oh my, wow, reading her story. I was like, my partner is not out to get me. My partner is not trying to drive me into the ground. My partner isn’t seeking to harm me or make my job harder, or he’s not doing any of this, and I am behaving as though he is and I am in the story in my head is strong, and my investment in that story is strong, and the evidence I’ve collected for the story is strong. I didn’t even know what my own needs were, or feelings were, like, I just were put I’ve just basically blaming it all on my partner at that point. And that was a, you know, just somebody making a comment underneath my post. And then I was like, and that’s like, you know, going through all the modules. So I went, and that led to one of the biggest tools for me, and that I use daily, many times a day, if I’m being being very honest, but I have to check in and ask myself, what is the story I’m telling myself again and again and again and again, and Is it true? And also, what it led to was me having a better actually, her comment gave me, lent me. It’s like she lent me her compassion, and her comment gave me, lent me some compassion for myself, because she had compassion for her partner that was experiencing rage and other things. And I was like, Oh yeah, you’re holding a lot. Like you’re you feel like you have to hold a lot. And so in this course, you also have this space that’s available for everybody to share their gratitudes and wins and things which I love, like pointing out, you know, these things, lifting them up. I think it’s so important. And so I shared the most cringiest one. I was like, this doesn’t sound like a win, but it’s a really big win, but I spent the night on it on the couch, so instead of like my felt the rage and I was feeling out of control, and I had a million self righteous reasons, you know why, and was gonna come at my partner with them, and the kids were asleep. And I just, I was, it was, there was two little things that happened. And I just, you know, this was happening. And I was able, I can’t believe it. I haven’t been in control of my rage before, so, but I was able to say, I need to sleep on the couch tonight. I’m feeling a lot like, I like, Let’s talk tomorrow. And I could just recognize that he was feeling a bit defensive. Of course, I didn’t even realize I was being critical, but I was, and so I just was like, pause, like, I care so much about you, and I’m about to say some real like, stuff that just can’t be unsaid. Like, I just, it’s that rage where I’m ready to be like, Let’s burn it down, like, this is it. And so he brought me my pillow, which is very sweet, but I stayed on the couch. And what happened the tool, there’s so many things in your course, but it’s like the triggers live inside you. One, whoa, had no like, so I knew this was my work. But two, and three and maybe a little bit of our coaching thing will be veiled feelings, like, not true feelings. And all my feelings were these judgments, like, all my feelings where I was, like, you know, I’m feeling this, I’m feeling abandoned, and I’m feeling worked into the ground, but they’re not actually the feeling. But you asked me that night on the couch, I would have told you you can take every Yes, 100% these are the feelings. This is what is happening. Like I was, you know, but I also realized, Oh, you are like this. So I had a war with myself, you know, on the couch where I wanted to run back upstairs and say, but, but you did this, or you said this, or you did, and then just being like, okay, isn’t that so interesting? I can barely contain it, and I want to run back upstairs and just try to be, be compassionate, be like, I don’t want to be this ugly, raging monster person and be like, but you are, and you love yourself. We’re gonna stay on the couch and just this amazing, you know, and that happened just part way through your course. And that was probably the first time since I’ve been kind of feeling rage for the last year or so, year, maybe even two, that I stopped myself, that I understood the work was with me. There was nothing my partner needed to change yet. And that’s not to say there’s imbalances and there’s inequitable things going on. There’s stuff we can work on, but that crap, you know, that was totally that wasn’t his, and in that moment, I was convinced it was his. But your course, gave me just enough space to be like, what if you’re telling yourself a story right now, and what would happen if you can stay in your body? And I was like, I can’t stay on my body. And I was like, Oh, this is really interesting. So here. And then just being like, Okay, what if we just try and you have exercises in your course of like, even just touch your fingertips, like, I felt like I could, I had had enough electricity going through me. I, you know, I could have powered the city I’m in, but I I was able. So these are, there’s so many tools, but the story you’re telling yourself, what if, and then just trying to be in your body and it’s happening. Those are they’re exponentially helpful.

Jen Lumanlan  32:26

There’s so much, there’s so much that I want to pull apart. And also I wanted to get to coaching. So I just want to say a few things that I saw in what you said. And then I would love to just hear a few words on like, how it turned out, right? So you started out by mentioning four accountabuddies, and just so, just for people listening, like, people listening like I don’t have time to keep track of three other people’s problems in addition to my own, that was Laurie’s choice. You don’t have to match with four people. You can do that. You can meet them all at one time. You right. We can arrange this in multiple different ways. That works for you. If one person’s enough, that’s totally fine. The other piece that comes out of that is, you know, it’s It was humbling to me several years ago when I realized how little of what people get out of this workshop is what comes out of the modules for me, right? I mean, yes, you’ve got some practices of touching your fingertips, those kinds of things, but how much of it comes from being in community with others and processing that learning and community with others, right? This massive shift came from you putting out, putting yourself out there, you know, in our community, and saying, Oh, I don’t know what’s going to happen. I don’t know if anyone’s going to respond. I don’t know what I’m going to get. And what you got back was one of the biggest shifts you experienced, right? And then the the idea when you’re when you’re lying on the couch, and you’re having, you know, all these fake feelings, as we call them, and, you know, I am. I’m being worked into the ground and all the rest of it. It’s all your fault. You know, we all want to be the star of our own show, right? Our brains all want to be the star of our own show. And so we kind of construct this reality that is centered around us, and everybody else is doing it too, and have all their own realities centered around themselves. And that can get us into some difficult spots, and when we can open the door to the idea that, Oh, that person has their own reality as well. And maybe the story I’m telling is not the only story, the right story, that there is another way we could view this situation, then we create incredible possibilities. And so I’m wondering if you could take us just one step further, I don’t want you to tell us that everything is beautiful between you and Jordan right now, because I’m sure there are lots of things you’re working on. But what is different now, because you have these skills than it was before you had them.

Laurie  34:32

Yeah, well, there is clarity understanding, like actually seeing each other again, instead of just kind of to, we almost call each other, like, sort of logistic warriors, like within her family, trying to schedule everything and, like, actually seeing a person and just how much I like him, like, as a person, like he’s somebody I really like being around. I didn’t know that, you know, before, like, I had forgotten, you know, with all the stuff that’s been happening, and it really opened up a space, like, again, it’s that pause, like it was me, just that pause. It opened up such a space for him to show me, like who he is, or to give him an opportunity to take on more, or to kind of say, Wow, thank you. Like I saw like a gentleman in him towards me, of like, Thank you, like, you know, thank you for you know, like, it’s not all me, or like, you know I I’m not. And he also, it’s very touching. It’s like the participant in your course had done for me, a very at times compassionate, like he sees me the struggle. It’s no longer confused. It’s no longer just like, kind of this confused noise, like, white noise, confusion and white noise around being like, did I like if I leave the crackers out of mice come am I this horrible, like, or, you know, or whatever it is, or it’s no longer it’s like, oh yeah, this isn’t he’s he’s no longer under attack, and it’s, there’s, the threat is, is gone. There’s safety when I can pause. And, you know, just even providing more safety to the both of us is, you know, little, little bits of magic can happen. Like he sent me a disco song, you know, the text, and I sent him some, some joke. And this is how we used to always communicate our things back. But since things have gotten hard, it’s been like, Oh, you forgot to get this. Can you get the and I forgot. You know, we’re we you missed the doctor appointment, or whatever it’s you’re met with these things that are going wrong. And this, course, we’ve started meeting each other with things that are going right, if that makes sense, or just silly or an absurd thing, like just being people again, like people that are, you know, deeply flawed, hopefully lovably flawed, but also both willing, like we’re both here, we’re trying, and that’s amazing. And just this morning, I reached Adam, so I want to say it’s not perfect. I and I was so excited for this interview, and I was so feeling. And I said something. I said, you’re working me into the ground. And I said, it like passive aggressive, out of my breath as I was and I thought. And Jordan looked at me and went, so that list, because I have a list of fake feelings that we could maybe coach through at some moment. And he went, but your list, your fake feelings. And part of me was like, God, Jordan’s right, but I’m so angry. Like, I was just like, I, and it was this morning, and I was like, I must remove myself, because I’m Oh. And so I and I did, like, I did make this like, I was like, Well, talk later. Oh, you know, but I stopped, you know, all the other ways I was gonna say. And here’s all this, you know, this terribly long scroll of ways that I’ve been quote, unquote harmed, or things are going.

Jen Lumanlan  37:48

And you don’t believe your own story anymore, right? You know that it’s a fake feeling?

Laurie  37:52

Yes.

Jen Lumanlan  37:53

And so back and say, Yeah, you’re right. That was fake feeling. I’m sorry.

Laurie  37:57

Yes. And so much easier. He demonstrates to forgiveness like he’s like, yeah, people make like, Yeah, you made a mistake. Yeah, that’s hard for you. Like, he’s not, like, let me go over all the ways you’re like, he’s very and I just wanted to say one quick thing, when it was funny where you said you were very humbled that, you know, there’s so much of this healing and learning that happens in community, and you’re absolutely right. But I felt like the only way I was primed for it was all your modules, like it was reading your book, like I felt like if I hadn’t had done the work that you’ve actually very incredibly put together, I don’t know I that would have been a missed opportunity, like, so I feel like I was primed, like I was pumped to have this vulnerable thing or share and not sure what was going to come of it or not, and it was totally okay if it was no comments or not. Obviously, I talk a lot, you know, you can’t really comment on everything, but it was your work that actually primed that. And then, and then, yes, this participant was like, here, and it was such a gift, which she did for me. Yeah, that participant.

Jen Lumanlan  38:57

Beautiful. All right. And on the note of things not being perfect, you implied earlier in our conversation that the thing you wanted to be coached on was related to your relationship. I have no idea what you’re going to raise right now, so I don’t know where this is going. So we haven’t scripted this, right? I’m not prepared for it at all. So tell me what’s on your mind. What what did you want to be coached about?

Laurie  39:18

Okay, so one of my struggles, and one of the things that is pretty sticky with me is fake feelings and fake needs, but mostly the feelings like I can, if I start to say I have this need, I can kind of excavate it down and go, Oh, the real need is this, like, you know, but with the feelings I am having a hard time getting to the real stuff. So this morning, I you know, things were a little hectic, and they have been a lot more peaceful and harmonious, but just this last day, and I think there’s a part of me that was annoyed, that was like, Oh, back to, you know, how we used to be in the mornings. I don’t like this, but I was kind of woken up with some kids having a squabble, and this needs to be done, and where’s my book big, and stuff like this. And I started to think I needed to do it all on my own, like, like, I just was like, this is on me, and Jordan needs to start his work day earlier. And so before one of us could bring we go to two different schools, and so one of us could bring one kid, and then the other would take the other two. But now it’s just like he needs to ease that work. So it’s just, and it’s not great, but it’s workable. But I think these little kindlings were happening, and it was something as simple, oh, this is deeply embarrassing. Oh, my gosh. But anyway, I our laundry basket. We have this, this system where, if it’s at this plate, if it’s on the ground here, it means it’s clean, because we have a ton of laundry, like we are muddy people, and there’s just dirt. So and I can’t stand having to redo a job you don’t need to do, or this and, and I’m not laundry isn’t my best friend. So we have this system. And he moved the laundry basket, so I put all the dirty clothes on top of clean clothes that you know had been clean not realizing. And it wasn’t even that many dirty clothes. So there was this, and then there was, like, one other thing, you know forgot. It was like one kiddos hot lunch that day, or something I put on the calendar, and out of the corner of my mouth, really ugly, mean way I said, I feel abandoned. I feel you’re working me into the ground. It’s always going to be like this. Now we’re right back to where it was, you know, or something or it’s always going to be like this, and fine, I have to do it myself or something. And, you know, it’s like, ouch, just ouch, ouch to him. Like, I feel so badly for him. I feel so badly for my kids, like, because even though you think it’s out of the corner of your mouth or this, I mean, they feel and pick up on everything. So all of a sudden, like, oh, mommy’s back in a zone again. And that’s and then it was just trying to, I was able, when I was driving my son to school, though list outs, the song on the radio came out, it was like, what I like about you, and it was enough, again, through one of your participants feeling the steering wheel. What can you see touch here? And then I was able to say to my son, do you want me to list out some of the things I like about you? And he was like, yes please, and to list out to him. So at least I was able to get back to some kind of like, you know, and him go off to school, but my other two kiddos just saw me raging and feeling over.

Jen Lumanlan  42:47

You’ve seen Jordan since that happened. This just happened this morning, right? No, you haven’t Okay, so you haven’t had any kind of repair with him yet. Okay, okay, cool. So I think there’s a couple things we can do here. Obviously, there’s the piece that you asked about around you know, how do I stop this from happening? Where is this coming from, and how do I stop it, right? And then there’s the how are we going to approach him when we see him tonight, right? How am I going to make repair? So I think we can, we can talk through those, both of those things, a little bit. Okay, so I always want to sort of approach this from the broadest level possible, and acknowledge you have a lot on your plate, right? You have a lot going on right now. And I would hope to start by thinking about, are you getting your needs met somewhat regularly, right? Are you getting movement that feels good to you? Are you getting enough rest? Are you getting, you know, time, time to do things that are meaningful to you, even you’re not working anymore, competence in your work was really important to you. Do you spend time doing things that you are competent at doing, that you really enjoy doing, that you’re intrinsically motivated to do, that you do them because you love doing them? Let me just check in with you briefly on that, how much of that is in place.

Laurie  43:54

That’s these are excellent, excellent questions. Just this week, we have started a thing where we go to bed kind of almost immediately after our kids. Like, we’re like, we’re, like, who are we kidding? We’re middle age. We gotta get our sleep like we can’t watch TV. We, you know, we loved it, but forget it. And but I have been getting up through the night for various reasons. So just these last two or three nights, I even though I’ve gone to bed asleep by 10, I’m up 2, 3, 4, and then kind of getting that sort of little bit of sleep before 6, you know, kind of thing, and that’s been the last two or three nights. And the great thing about your question, although I’m not necessarily fulfilling my need for like, some kind of competence, or like, you know, or meaningful or some contribution, I’m aware of it, and there’s possibilities and ideas. So I feel like even just thinking about it has been really good. And the other need is that I would love more connection with Jordan. So what’s been happening is he’s working earlier, later, or we’ve just been kind of two ships in the night in some way, or we just have to go to sleep. So even just these little hilarious and not so hilarious things that happen through the day, I don’t have my person to kind of say, like, oh my gosh, you’ll never believe, you know, suck, that, that that. And I think just in you asking that question, I’m realizing, oh wow, I might be fighting with him to just get him, you know, or like, I want him. I missed him. I don’t have my connection. Yeah.

Jen Lumanlan  45:25

Okay, okay. Pause, pause, pause, how many times do our kids do things that irritate us, right? Do things that you know, they hit us, they scream at us, they do things that we find irritating, and we’re like, why are you doing this? Stop doing this. And how many times is it possible that it could be I’m here, I’m here. Can you notice me, please? And you are doing the exact same thing with Jordan, right? That our kids do with us. Can we see our kid’s behavior in the same way, right? I mean, just identifying that in ourselves is so important, right? Am I picking a fight just to say I’m here? Please? You know, collaboration, connection. Can we be on a team here? How many times are our kids doing that as well with their difficult behavior, right?

Laurie  46:15

Wow, so many goosebumps. I have to say my, one of my kiddos really has to behave big and in ways that is very challenging. Some of the behaviors and the actions and the ways going about it is just it’s almost revolting, like you’re repulsed, like you just think, oh no.

Jen Lumanlan  46:32

Yes, and Jordan may well be having those same responses when you’re giving your fake feelings, right? When you say you’re working me into the ground, I feel abandoned, right? His initial response is probably gonna be, yeah, stop. Our response to our child is, why are you doing this thing that’s so irritating, right? And when we see that need underneath, when we see that need for connection, we can say, Oh, are you looking for more connection with me, right? So this is just a small piece of this. So one of the pieces you can work on, I think, is looking for ways to get connection with Jordan that feel small and meaningful and doable, right? And that might be, you said you texted some little things to each other this morning. Maybe you could text him some things when they occur to you and you don’t expect an immediate reply and the first thing or right after he eats lunch, maybe. And so he’s not postponing his need for food. But after he’s eaten food, he can check in his text messages and send you a message back, right? Maybe a five-minute foot rub, and as you sit on the couch, time that you would have spent watching TV, offer him a five minute foot rub, and that will probably lead to eye contact, connection from there, so things like that, right? So that starts to meet your needs. When your needs are met, you feel less stressed out, right? So that that eases everything out, even with nothing changing about the specific situation, everything eases up a little bit. And then let’s look at what happened this morning, right? You said you were woken up with some squabbling.

Laurie  47:56

Jump right on me. I was, I was dead asleep. And then two kids…

Jen Lumanlan  47:58

Oh my goodness, okay, I would fall out of the wrong side of bed if that happened to me, right? And so after you had recovered from the shock being woken up by kids jumping onto you, maybe just check in with yourself then right and say, oh, how am I doing? That was really hard. Have I recovered? Because so often we don’t, right? And we think this about our kids as well. We think our kids are coming back to a neutral baseline every time we have difficult interactions with them. And I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to listen to the 10 Lessons on Parenting From Master Dog Trainers episode, yeah, it’s new, and that’s one of the lessons is that we think our kids go back to like a set point every time we have a difficult direction back to the set point. But actually, we don’t do that, right? Something, you get woken up by being jumped on. Oh, you’re agitated. And then, you know, Jordan does something that you don’t like, oh, you’re a little bit more agitated, a little bit more, and it builds and builds and builds and builds. And so if we can see those things while they’re still little, and then say, oh, that was really hard. What do I need to feel calmer right now? Right? What do I need to feel good right now? Can I, can I lie here for my by myself for just a minute with my eyes closed and say, oh, that was hard, right? What would be different about the entire rest of the morning if that had been there? Do you think?

Laurie  49:18

Oh, it would be so different, I can’t even emphasize it enough, then I wouldn’t be seeing each thing Jordan does in this light of something being done to me, or I have to do it all, or I feel so alone, like I’m just, I’m alone again. I’m alone. You know? It would be like, Oh, it would see it in the reality, like how that participant did for me and the thing, it would just a different light would come on, and I’d be like, oh, yeah, it is. Sometimes it’s a lot having three little kids, like, and here, I’d be able to shake it off in a way, instead of looking for somebody to discharge it to or.

Jen Lumanlan  49:54

Yeah, yes. And so that’s the key, right? Is, is seeing when you feel agitated in your body, and each of us has different signs, right? It’ll be in your shoulders, in your gut, in your throat, in your head, wherever your thing is for you, you’re looking for that. Oh, that doesn’t feel good. Okay, what do I need right now to feel better about that, right? To physically maybe give myself a little shoulder rub and maybe just lie for a moment by myself, or take an extra minute over breakfast, or whatever it is that would help you to settle again, to come back to that more neutral baseline, so that you’re not building, building, building. So I think that’s really important. And then the third piece that I think is important is making it a practice and a habit of seeing these judgments as they come up. And one of the ways that I like to do that is to practice it in non-stressful situations, right? So, and you can kind of have habit stack this. You can tie it to something you do again, and see how I’m doing. And ideally, you’re looking for kind of sensations in your body, for feelings, and then sometimes a fake feeling is going to come out, right? I feel really criticized when I felt criticized when so and so said this to me, Oh, I felt criticized. That’s not a feeling. What’s there, right? And so you’re practicing that when there’s nobody to respond to, there’s no stress involved in that moment, identifying that feeling under the criticism, and then you’ll be more able to do it, because you’ve already kind of activated those pathways, right? Your brain knows what to do. Oh, I heard a fake feeling. It’s a criticism. What’s the feeling underneath that? And then when it comes out of your mouth, you know, Jordan is pointing to the thing on the list on the fridge right now, which is helpful. And also, what if you could see that coming? Oh, that was a fake feeling, wasn’t it? Diffuses the tension. Allows you the space to say I’m feeling really overwhelmed today. Would you be willing to help by doing X, Y or Z? Right? So it’s not yes, I’m going to take on the entire burden of the family, but this is how I’m doing today. Can I please ask for your help?

Laurie  51:54

I, oh, I so appreciate this like so much. There’s a lot to work with there. And I think Jordan again, even just the fact that he signed up for the course with me, like he’s so willing, like he’s so wonderful, right, as a partner and to work with. And there’s just, you know, there’s stuff that happens, and it defaults and things. But I think if I can pause and say, oh, things started a little hot this morning, feeling a little overwhelmed. Just wondering, is there like, could you take one other kiddo, you know, to or is there something but to just have that partner because I think what happens for me, where it cuts and then the rage starts, is I feel so alone, like I’m like, oh geez, it’s all on me again.

Jen Lumanlan  52:38

Yeah, so I feel lonely, right? Feeling, it’s all on me again story just.

Laurie  52:44

Yes, that’s it. This is so important, loneliness. It’s, that’s right, that’s the feeling. It’s loneliness. Yeah, so it’s loneliness, and then yes, the story is, yeah, you know, it’s all on me. I’m abandoned, or I have to do it all, or, and I don’t even believe it. If somebody gave me those sentences and put them on a piece of paper and said, oh, this is how you talk about your life, I’d say, not me. Are you kidding? I don’t believe that. Like, logically, I’m like, no, no. Nobody does it all. We’re not islands. Like I, this isn’t my values at all. And then it’s like, so interesting that that’s a default mode, you know, under stress or under-resourced, not meeting my own needs. This is kind of my, you know, manufacturers, like, you know, default mode, how I’m shaped and programmed as a person. Like, it’s like, this is the default and, but there’s so much. This is what’s so incredible, your course, and your book, and your work. Like, there’s just so much we can do in that default mode. Do you think there’s that like you just gotta go on, but there is so much.

Jen Lumanlan  53:47

And I want to acknowledge the gift that Jordan gave you as well, right of joining the course. There are many parents who think about joining, who wish their partner would join as well and do it along with them, and their partner is not willing, not able, just not going to do it for whatever reason, we always welcome couples to take it together, because then you have a shared vocabulary for how you’re thinking about these challenges and how you’re approaching each other. But there’s a lot of this you can do by yourself, and so I just want to close by thinking about how you’re going to approach him tonight, right? How are we going to repair? Normally when we’re coaching, I would ask for your ideas first, in the interest of the time, I’m going to offer it to you. So you can start by your non-judgmental observation, right? If you go in with hey, can we talk about how you made a comment this morning that really set me off? Do you want to be in a conversation with me on that? Not too much. But if we go in with like, hey, this morning was kind of hard, right? Can we can we chat about that? There’s no judgment there. It’s a shared problem between us. It’s not if you hadn’t put the laundry in the wrong place, things would have been different. If you hadn’t made that comment, things would have been different. It’s, can we talk about this together? We’re waiting for his acceptance like, yes, I consent to be in this conversation if he’s not ready yet. Maybe he had a rough day at work. He doesn’t want to talk about it yet, totally fine, right? Same with our kids, if our kids don’t want to talk about it yet, totally fine. Assuming we get consent, given how hard this is for you, you may want to prepare this list in advance, right? You’re not thinking about this on the fly, because then we know criticisms might come out. So prepare your feelings list in advance, right? This morning, I was feeling really tired, really shocked that I was woken up in the way that I was woken up, and kind of overwhelmed, right? And I’m spitballing here. You’re obviously going to use the feelings that are true for you. And I realized that I had needs for kind of calm and ease in the morning and a sense of collaboration and teamwork. And I’m wondering what was coming up for you, right? And, and hopefully he is able to share some feelings with you as well, maybe even some needs. And then we can kind of go into, okay, what? What strategies could we see that could meet both of our needs, right? Would you be willing to try not to put the laundry basket, you know, try to put the laundry basket where we’ve agreed that it will go? Or is that hard for some reason, right? Is there a way we should change our system? There’s no law of saying the laundry basket has to go here. That’s a system we chose that because it works for us. If it doesn’t work, let’s change the system. Yeah. So, so, so shifting that piece, I was thinking it would really help me to meet my need for for ease in the mornings if you would be willing to consider doing A, B or C. Are any of those options for you, and maybe they’re not, right? Maybe he’s got other needs that we haven’t identified, and he’s like, I don’t see how I can do those, but I could do D, E, or F, right? And then we are adjusting the strategies we’re working with, and I see you making notes. I’m going to send you the recording right after we get off. You can just watch it for yourself. And so then we’re working together collaboratively in a sense of partnership, right? Which is, which is, ultimately your underlying goal is, you want to feel connected and as a team with him, so it helps you meet those needs, as well as meeting the immediate needs of, how do I show up in the mornings in a way that’s aligned with my values. So do you think he would be receptive to that? Do you think he could do that? How do you think that will go this evening?

Laurie  57:03

Oh, I think that would go really well. It would go really well. And the key, the key is for me to start with my feelings first, not coming that’s like you’re on to me, like it’s so hard for me not to be salty or, you know, or say something like, you know, that laundry thing’s been working for a year, you know, or something, and be like, no, no. Like, you know, the feeling, yeah, you know. And I did make notes while you were talking to but it is, but because it’s, it’s new, this is new work for me, and it’s important. It’s so important work. And this is why I’m here. It’s like, I care about Jordan so much. I care about my family so much. I care about what we’re trying to create. It’s like trying to reach beyond my stuff to what I care about and you’re so I think he would be delighted for me to come in. I also was joking like I’d have six humble pies for him to be like lower right, but I think I wouldn’t.

Jen Lumanlan  58:00

Which filling would you like?

Laurie  57:03

Yeah, exactly. I wouldn’t even need the pies if I could come in just very, you know, say what my feelings are and what, what was going on. And would you be willing to try, which I think is amazing things and some possibilities. And, yeah, he’ll, he’ll let me know. He’ll, he’ll, he’ll let me know that that wasn’t cool, and I think that’s so important to be accountable and to be called in. And it’ll hopefully even strengthen our relationship. It’ll, it’ll make an even more shorthand, I think, for him to when he sees this, this coming on in me, it might not just be but the feelings list are the thing on the fridge, like you’re doing it. It might actually be even gentler. Like, okay, like, someday I’ve hand on my shoulder.

Jen Lumanlan  58:44

And so you can say that, right? You don’t have to like, someday I wish he will magically intuit that I would like a hand on my shoulder instead of him pointing to the feelings list, right? That could be one of your requests. It could be, hey, when you see that I’m getting dysregulated, when you see that, that that tone comes out of my in my voice, that means things are heading in a bad direction. When you see my eyes like moving around the room like this, like they do when I get agitated. Would you be willing to put a hand on my shoulder and just look me in the eye and just not even say anything, or whatever it is that you would feel nourishing, would feel nourishing to you? Right? And then you actually connect in a way that you want to connect, and are able to bring it down a notch. And the other piece that I probably should have inserted and didn’t was that was an apology, right? Was an acknowledgement of of this. I can see that it hurt you, and I’m sorry that that happened. And that genuine apology, I think, is an important component of it too.

Laurie  59:33

Yeah, yeah. Because it’s very confusing to be on the receiving end of rage, especially when it’s kind of tangled into some truths into something. So it’s a very confusing mess to come at you. So yeah, it does hurt him. And so yeah, and a genuine apology. And also, as I’m learning too, to try not to hold on to the mistakes or agonize like to really feel it, acknowledge it, and also be like, oh, this is where I’m at as a person. And I’m learning. Thank you so much for being a part of it with me. I think you’ve given me a lot of really great stuff to work with tonight. Thank you so much. It’s hilarious that this situation happened this morning, because I was like, doing so great. And I was like, Oh yeah.

Jen Lumanlan  01:00:14

I’m coming on the podcast to show you how amazing I’m doing.

Laurie  01:00:19

Yeah, exactly. And be like, oh yeah. This is an everyday, everyday journey of work, but it’s very.

Jen Lumanlan  01:00:25

Yes. And honestly, I’ll just kind of peel back the veneer a bit there pretty it’s not uncommon for folks to arrive on this kind of call with me and say, yeah, it just happened again this morning. I think there’s something about doing the interview. And you’re like, I gotta be ready. And then the stress of it, right? The worrying about it makes you, well, narrows your window of tolerance, and then you explode a little more easily. So, but hopefully, hopefully it was worth it in the long run.

Laurie  01:00:50

Yes, it will be, yeah.

Jen Lumanlan  01:00:53

Is there anything else you’d like to ask or say to feel complete in our conversation today?

Laurie  01:00:55

Oh, I just want to thank you all so much. I didn’t get a chance to, right? but to Denise, Corey, Jodi, yourself, the team at the Taming Your Triggers. It was just so important. It’s such important work you’re doing, and it’s made such a huge impact in our family. And there’s still so much work to do. I have but I have clarity. I didn’t have clarity before. I just have clarity of what needs to be done, and I have clarity to lend myself some compassion. And these are just huge, huge, huge shifts and tools. And I also wanted to say that there’s something that you’ve set up, something really awesome in the community of witnessing other people do it, but also there’s people that might just make one comment through the whole course, or say something or not, or might do likes or this, and it’s such a respectful environment that really meets and kind of matches where people are like, it’s totally so it worked really, really well. And I know I had my four accountabuddies, sort of like, you know, a disco Saturday meetup. But each of the people we just met for a short period of time, we each had a few minutes, and then we were respectful of each other’s time. But I know that some of the people in that group maybe texted another person in the group or, like, there was all sorts of ways it could happen, and it didn’t have to be weekly. That was just, I’m all in, I’m an all in person, so I went for it. But Jordan met just a few times with accountabuddy and he got so much out of that. What I loved about it is really, you can spread out. You can be where you’re at and what you’re dealing with and at your at your pace. So I just want to thank you for the work you’re doing. It’s awesome. Anyway, I’m trying to get away from using the word awesome, because I’m like, like, you know, I’m saying this lamp is awesome, this water bottle, like it’s just lost its but it’s, it’s so important. Just thank you.

Jen Lumanlan  01:02:51

Thank you. That’s, that’s really meaningful to me. I’m so grateful for your time and your energy and your showing up as your whole self, right? And all of your imperfection and all of your beautiful imperfection, exactly where you are today and really sharing who you really are with us, it’s such a gift. Thank you so much.

Laurie  01:03:09

Yeah, thank you.

Jen Lumanlan  01:03:10

Laurie sent me a message several days after we had this conversation, and she wanted to let me know how the repair attempt had gone with her husband, Jordan. So I’m going to read you what she said. She wrote, “It felt dangerous to approach Jordan to sincerely apologize for raging at him. It felt like it did when I first had a crush on him and had no idea how to pursue him, kind of like, if I admit anything, he may run far, far away, and I’d rather stay in his orbit and in contact with him, so at least to know him. And I thought, isn’t that something? Jen was talking about how kids will behave in all sorts of ways we find so difficult just to keep the parent around them, to have any sort of contact, they will put up with so much. And all sorts of feelings came up for me, such as sadness and even a tinge of compassion that in the past, I would do desperate flips to have someone to talk with me, work with me, stay in partnership with me. Once I felt some of that, I could see much more clearly what happened and what was needed. I could see much clearer that no matter where Jordan put the laundry or the goldfish crackers, he does not deserve to be treated like that. No one does. I realized that saying sorry means recognizing and coming into my own power. It also means personally recognizing that I was raging from a very young part of myself at a caretaker, not a spouse. The idea of saying sorry, righted something in me. So no matter how he reacted, I was aligned with how I’d like to be in the world. It took me nearly six days to say sorry. So what happened? I said, I’m sorry for raging at you. You do not deserve that. Jordan told me he wasn’t sure which time I was referring to, which was like an ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch to hear, but I heard it. He let me know that my rage comes out of nowhere for him and then builds up like a fast storm and spirals and I use whatever is happening to fuel it more. He also said he was sorry to come into the room so quickly after the kids asking me to intervene, and then becoming annoyed when what I said didn’t match what he was saying, as he felt undermined. He said, with some compassion towards me, that’s not a great way to start a day. And I said, for either of us. I didn’t ask him to put a hand on my shoulder or if we’d be willing to try new things yet. We didn’t talk about unmet needs, but I feel hopeful. It’s a start.” It’s been so amazing to walk alongside Laurie on this journey, and I’m also really gratified that she agreed to be a peer coach for our next opening of Taming Your Triggers that’s coming up pretty much right now, in February of 2025. Laurie, as you can see, processes things super verbally. And it’s so much benefit to everybody around her to get that processing so that you can hear, oh yeah, this is going on in my relationship as well, and I had no idea until I heard her articulate it. So get all the benefits of being with Laurie and all of the other amazing parents who are on this journey as well in the Taming Your Triggers workshop, because very often, the person who is best equipped to show you what’s going on in your relationship is the person who is just where you were a few months ago. I can’t wait to see you there.

Kelly  01:06:16

Hi, I’m Kelly Peterson from Chicago, Illinois. I’m a Your Parenting Mojo fan, and I hope you enjoy the show as much as I do. If you found this episode especially enlightening or useful, you can donate to help Jen produce more content like this and also save us both from those interminable mattress ads you hear on other podcasts. Then you can do that and also subscribe on the link that Jen just mentioned. Thanks for listening!