Episode Summary 08: What Is Collaborative Parenting? Real Parent Story

Yeah, I mean, tension is a great word for it, because it does feel like there's a lot of tension. And I think this is a phrase that we hear a lot in psychology, and I think that you use it as well. But this idea of window of tolerance, you know, feels so present for me often. And I noticed how much the world events, as well as like my own outside stressors affect my parenting and the patients that I show up with, and how non-compliance based I can show up with and in. And so I think that those are the biggest tensions. And so I think that, you know, if I have just watched the news or, you know, have spent more time on social media than I usually do, then I really notice, I mean, it just feels like a power drain. And so, you know, snipping at my kids more often, having less patience about things, noticing myself falling back into really like behavior focused parenting and getting really stuck on things.

Hi, this is Kelly Peterson from Chicago, Illinois. There's no other resource out there quite like Your Parenting Mojo, which doesn't just tell you about the latest scientific research on parenting and child development, but puts it into context for you as well. So you can decide whether and how to use this new information. If you'd like to get new episodes in your inbox, along with a free infographic on 13 reasons your child isn't listening to you and what to do about each one, sign up at yourparentingmojo.com/subscribe. If you'd like to start a conversation with someone about this episode, or you know someone who would find it useful, please do forward it to them. Thank you so much.

Hello and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. Today I'm talking with Maile, and I first met her in the Taming Your Triggers workshop last year. She's a therapist and a parent of two who's been working to bring collaborative parenting ideas into her daily life. And we're going to dig into something I know a lot of you are dealing with right now, this kind of big tension between caring about what's happening in the world, and also having the energy and capacity to show up for your kids in ways that match your values. In this short episode, you'll hear Maile talk about how her window of tolerance gets smaller when she's paying attention to global crises, and how that affects her parenting. And we'll work through a real example from her day, a power struggle over putting sheets back on the bed after a meltdown before dinner. So this is an edited version of our much deeper 60-minute conversation where we looked at ways to build connection with others, even when you're in a place where you aren't fluent in the local language. We explored the idea of reading your child's body language and catching their micro-signals before difficult situations escalate. And Maile had a really big insight about how she holds her four-year-old more accountable than her husband sometimes. So full episodes about 60 minutes is available right now when you join the Parenting Membership at yourparentingmojo.com/parentingmembership, along with a whole library of members-only content, an amazing community, monthly coaching calls with me, and so much more. So again, if you're not a member yet, you can join at yourparentingmojo.com/parentingmembership and get immediate access to this full episode. And also, just want to briefly mention enrollment for the Taming Your Triggers workshop, where I originally met Maile, is open from February 22nd to March 4th, twenty-twenty six. So we can all start together on March 9th. You can sign up for that and learn more at yourparentingmojo.com/tamingyourtriggers. Okay, let's jump in. So welcome Maile, firstly, it's so great to have you here.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

And so I wonder, can you just tell us a little bit about who you are and some of the things that are important to you? What's important in your world right now?

Oh, yeah, that's hard to locate because it feels like so many things are important. But first and foremost, I think my family is incredibly important. My two kids, I have a one-and-a-half-year-old and a four-year-old. And my partner, my work is really important to me as well. And also, everything going on in the world feels really important and incredibly urgent, I think is the word I want to use.

In your email to me, you had initially mentioned that sometimes it seems as though you get bogged down in news from Gaza, which was very prominent at the time. And other crises have come up since then as well. And there's this broader stuff that's happening in the world. And you're a working mom who has to get dinner on the table every day. And I wonder, can you tell us a little bit more about that tension, that stress that you feel in between those two, the way those two things show up in your life?

Yeah, I mean, tension is a great word for it because it does feel like there's a lot of tension. And I think this is a phrase that we hear a lot in psychology, and I think that you use it as well. But this idea of window of tolerance, you know, feels so present for me often. And I notice how much the world events as well as like my own outside stressors affect my parenting and the patients that I show up with and how non-compliance based I can show up with and in. And so I think that those are the biggest tensions. I think that it's a lot easier for me to go into a compliance-based framework. I mean, I think for most of us or many of us, it's really easy to default to that space. And so if I don't have a lot of capacity and particularly dinner time, right. It's like it's the end of the day. You're already like you've already used up a lot of your capacity. And so I think that, you know, if I have just watched the news or, you know, I've spent more time on social media than I usually do, then I really notice. I mean, it just feels like a power drain. And so, you know, snipping at my kids more often, having less patience about things, noticing myself falling back into really like behavior focused parenting and getting really stuck on things. I also find that just my general like my irritation is higher, like my rage is higher. The sense of like everything being the biggest deal in the world. I think that I notice that a lot in my body. And yeah, so having to find ways to ground, which is not always successful.

So tell me about a challenging time that didn't go the way that you hoped and how did you come back around after the words and what might you do differently next time?

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I could think of like a thousand examples, but maybe I'll just share one from today, actually, because it feels really present. We have been having a lot of problems with hitting and scratching still and just kind of the impulsivity of that. And so it's not my favorite way to handle it, but we're at the point where we're we kind of take a pause. And so that pause can be on the couch or in his room like we don't necessarily have a set point, but we do generally stop what we're doing and we take a pause. I'm always open to talking, but if he doesn't want to talk, then we generally have a pause. And the pause in his room turned into him destroying his room, essentially taking all the pillows and the sheets off the bed and feeling really dysregulated. And I came back and tried to talk to him again, which was really unsuccessful. And it kind of just became this power struggle of, oh, and then dinner was ready. And so, you know, we were called to the dinner table and then it was like, OK.

So I think I at that point really felt invited into that power struggle of like, well, you have to put the sheets back on the bed before we go eat. And now that I've said that, I have to commit to it in some way. And so then there is this like weird, I think, tongue twister that happens in my head, you know, this fight of if I don't follow through on this, am I going to be seen as I'm not even so worried about being seen as like the disciplinarian or the, you know, but more just the person that follows through. And I'm actually kind of thinking a bit about your podcast episode online and just this idea of when we follow through. Right. And so I'm thinking like, OK, if I don't follow through on this, am I going to be a liar? Like, is it going to be this bigger trust thing? And then there's the other part of me that is like, this is so not a big deal. Like, you know, let it happen. And at some point, someone will put the sheets back on the bed and we will move on with our lives. And so there's kind of these two fights happening. And I was able to stay regulated. And I think in my window of tolerance, which was one win that felt good about tonight. But we basically just left the blankets and the sheets on the floor until bedtime after we did dinner and shower and a little bit of TV time. And finally, after I asked him, you know, maybe for the fifth time, he put them back on the bed and we moved on with our night. So I think that could have been a lot worse. But it also didn't feel like a, you know, a huge win because we weren't able to really have that conversation around needs. And it didn't feel like a problem solve. We just sort of got through it.

Right. Well, it's hard to do in the moment, right? Yeah. I'm curious about that moment when you said you put the sheets back on the bed before dinner time. What was happening in that moment for you?

Yeah, I mean, I think just kind of that fight that I was sharing, you know, the like the pressure starts building for sure. And I think that there is this this invitation into the anger of, you know, wanting to wanting. I mean, I think you reference power and control. Like, I think those are moments where it's like, am I going to somehow try to force this or make him, you know, am I going to grab his hands and we're going to put the blanket on together or am I going to do it angrily and cause a scene? So I think, yeah, I think that those are things that start to come up for me in that moment. Yeah. And certainly, this desire to control the situation. I mean, I think that I think I was feeling really frustrated that he wouldn't talk to me. And so I think that my frustration actually came from like, I'm trying to do this the right way. Like, let me do it the right way. Like, let's have this conversation, even if you're not ready for it, because that's what I need. So I think that I really wanted to have the problem-solving conversation. And I certainly heard you speak about this before, right, that if we're like forcing them into the problem, you know, if we're like forcing them into negotiating, then totally missing the point. But I find myself doing that a lot, actually. So we're going to sit down and talk about this and we're going to make a plan, figure this out. It's going to feel good for everyone, you know. And then I either hear myself starting to say that or I hear myself say it. And I'm kind of laughing at myself and I'm feeling really frustrated at the same time.

At the same time. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm thinking about, yes. So how do we go about navigating this? I'm wondering if you can imagine it, if you and your partner were having an argument and you were feeling super frustrated with something your partner had done and your partner said, we are going to have this conversation right now, even if you're not ready. Yeah. What would it be like to be on the receiving end of that?

Oh, yeah. I mean, not good. I would get incredibly angry and shut down. And yeah. And I think that's where, like, the humor of it comes up for me when I'm laughing because part of me is like, I can understand logically that this is so not the right way to go about this. And my blood is boiling and my heart is pounding and it feels so consuming in that moment.

Yeah. OK, thanks for walking through this. We weren't expecting to go into as much detail in this example. I'm wondering if we can backtrack to you said this came from some sort of hitting, scratching, some sort of difficult behavior like that. Where did that come from? Do you know what led up to that difficult behavior?

Yeah. I mean, there's like a long history. So I'm trying to figure out how to what feels helpful to share. So, I mean, I think a lot of it comes back down to quality time. I think that, you know, we're really grateful that Elliot has a super awesome relationship with his brother. And I feel super grateful of that. But I do think that he gets jealous of the attention that his little brother gets. And so I think quality time is probably a big need that we're not meeting for him. And so a lot of that is showing up there. Yeah. Connection. And I think that there is autonomy. What actually sparked the hitting today was that I picked him up and asked to snuggle him because I was trying to meet his need for connection. But I think that I probably in doing that wasn't meeting his need or interrupted his need for a physical space. Yeah. And I think that I noticed those kinds of things coming up a lot where my intention is to be needs based and to meet one need. But I haven't considered all of the needs that could be happening in that moment, because, of course, we're multi needy people that we are, you know.

Which is a good thing. Yeah. So I'm wondering, do you know of some strategies already that he does find super connecting and that don't sort of intersect with the sensory challenges that he has? How does he like to connect? Is it playing with toys, Legos, dolls? What kinds of things does he like to do with you?

Yeah, he loves Legos, that's probably his favorite activity right now. He loves art a lot, but that gets messy really quickly. So I tend to not have the capacity for that all days. So I would say Legos is probably, yeah, the biggest thing or imaginary play. He's starting to get really into imaginary play. So sometimes like, you know, he loves to be the big bad wolf and run around his room and things like that. So, yeah.

I'm hearing autonomy there as well. I'm the one who gets to be the person who chases who's in control of the situation. So, yeah, so there are some things that you might be able to do for 10 minutes or so on a more regular, potentially daily basis that could help him to stay more regulated. And then you're not getting into the hitting, scratching, biting kind of stuff, which so often can be a call for a connection with a parent right. Which sounds so totally hyper intuitive. It's like, why would you do something that I've told you three million times not to do? And to the kid, it's right. It's the fastest way I know of to get your attention. What's not logical about that? Of course, I'd prefer if you weren't screaming at me, but I'll take you screaming at me than doing whatever you're doing in the other room.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that. I will. I will. Yes. It's like where to fit it in to our very tight. And I think that's the other challenge that I have that I'm sure other parents go through. But I think I feel particular pressure. In Portugal we have a pretty late evening. And so, you know, usually the kids are getting home kind of around six and then we try to eat by seven. And then, you know, Liam is doing kind of an eight thirty-nine bedtime and then Elliot right after. And so it just really feels like everything is. But we do have a little chunk of time usually at the at the beginning of the evening that we could probably try to do something or before bedtime, potentially.

I'm wondering how long the meltdown process took the quiet time in your room time, the navigating a lot of time, sheets time.

Yeah. I mean, probably like at least at least 20 minutes.

It was a real pivotal moment when in that moment when you said put the sheets back on the bed before dinner. And with the benefit of hindsight, right, you're calm now. You've had a chance to reflect on it. This is obviously a very different moment from the moment when you were in when you said it. But in that moment, if it comes around again tomorrow night, what might you do differently?

Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that was coming to mind, even almost in that moment or very shortly after was this idea of just dropping it and or play. And I think that it can feel really inaccessible for me to get into a play space. Yes. But there are some techniques that I have had, which I had actually, I think, tried. I can't remember if it was a little bit earlier, a little bit like there was a lot of little moments in there. But yeah, that I think just maybe saying something playful and being able to like essentially what I'm getting to is trying to build off that need for connection and refocus on the connection piece that might have not been there. And I think I had offered a hug before and he seemed really like he was kind of going back and forth, like wanting the hug and then pushing me away.

And so there were like a lot really his thing, right?

Yes. So like we were having like a lot of little moments where there were like little releases and then the frustration was back. And so I do think maybe that I know this isn't really what you asked me, but I think there now that I'm looking back, there were a couple of wins in the sense that I think I was really in a thoughtful space of like, OK, how can I keep trying different things, even if they're not exactly right? Like, you know, I know that I don't want to show up in this way. And so how can I just keep trying to navigate? But I guess the real answer is I'm not totally sure. Aside from play or.

May I make a couple of suggestions?

Yes, please.

So a first one would be, I'm sure you know the term co-regulation, right? The idea of almost having a child borrow our sense of regulation. And that could have been accessible because you said you were relatively settled in that time. Obviously, if you're on the verge of exploding, it's going to be really hard to co-regulate. And what that essentially means is coming into the space where the kid is and sitting quietly and maybe not saying anything, maybe saying, oh, my goodness, we're having a hard time right now. And the one inspiration that I have started to use actually is my daughter has what she calls her chickies. So, you know, the little towels that little infants put over you put it over their head. It's got the corner and it's got a little chick thing on the corner. And we stuffed them under the doors for smoke suppression during a really bad fire season. And she pulled them out and she's like, these are mine now. And so she has these three chickies and she sleeps with every night and she loves how they get her smell. And it feels really comforting to her. And one night she said to me, I just love chickies so much. They never ask anything of me and they're always just there and they're so comforting. And I was like, OK, so when she's having a hard time, that's how she wants somebody to show up for her right. And so that's really the I almost envision myself being a chickie and bringing that chick mindset of I'm just going to be here and present for you. So that was idea number one. Idea number two was I wonder what would happen if you kept sort of some Legos out on the floor in his room and if you just sat down and started putting some Legos together. And said something like, hey, you can come over and join me if you want. Do you think he'd be receptive to either of those things?

Yeah, potentially. I'm sitting I have tried sitting quietly, not a lot of times like I definitely could do that more. And that sometimes I think feels like a little bit triggering for him. Like I think even having that attention sometimes feels frustrating, but...

Not looking at him right. You're not standing there looking, sitting there looking at him. You're sitting side by side.

But I do think that I haven't fully given like the sitting there quietly just being a real shot. So I definitely think that's something that I could try to resource more. And I think that's also like I mean, it's in the name, but the co-regulation piece, I think, is a good opportunity for me also to check in because it isn't I'm at the point I feel really grateful for this where your ideas and the podcast and a lot of my values are really close to me, but they're not yet integrable. And so if I can just have that pause, then I can usually get back to my grounding pretty quickly. It's just being able to get myself to be able to have that pause. So, yeah, I can try that. In the Legos thing, that's interesting. Yeah, I think I think that could have I could see him getting frustrated and coming over and like throwing the Legos at me or at the wall or something and then playing. Or maybe he would just come play.

Let’s try, so yeah. I so appreciate your letting us dig into that because I think it's beautifully illustrating how to shift from this power over dynamic, right, of you will do this thing before dinner. OK, can we let that go? Beautiful. You did that in the moment. And now can we next time this kind of thing comes up because it's going to happen again right. They're in this phase right now. It's going to happen again. What kind of practices can we put in place to meet his need more often? And then there's going to be less scratching, hitting, biting, whatever is happening because his need for connection is going to be met more often in a way that feels really good to him. And also, you have some new ideas for how do we repair afterwards? How do we come back together in a way that doesn't require that you do a certain thing, perform in a certain way before I'm willing to invite you back to the family and to the dinner table? And so you're like at that point, you're living the idea of really shared power. It's not I'm going to tell you how it's going to be. It's let's be in this together. And in the sense, I'm getting is that is really aligned with your values.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I mean, as you talk about the repair, that is something that has been challenging for me as well. But I'm trying to lean into is. How is it challenging? Oh, I mean, it's challenging because I think that there are a lot of dominant narratives around perfectionism or showing up perfectly or not being accountable or being scary to be accountable or doing something wrong as failure and all of those things, which I think it's really easy for me to fall into as a parent and have my own shame and probably also like dominant ideas of power, of being invited into things of like, well, I'm the parent and I shouldn't need to say that. And so I'm really trying to read, you know, relearn and teach myself how important it is.

Thanks so much to Miley for being vulnerable with us about the hard moments, as well as the wins that we discussed in our full conversation. And if you find yourself getting triggered by your kids' behavior more often than you'd like, I hope you'll consider joining me for the Taming Your Triggers workshop. You'll get a five to 10 minute video once a week for 10 weeks to help you see the real origins of your triggered feelings and so much support to help you put the ideas into practice, including an online community, coaching calls with me every other week, the option to match with an Accountabuddy and a whole bunch of three minute practices you can use to re-regulate yourself when things get off track. We have sliding scale pricing and a money back guarantee. I mentioned I first met Miley through the Taming Your Triggers workshop last year and through preparing for our conversation, she actually realized she'd become a little bit disconnected from her parenting values and saw how having these principles top of mind again helped her through the situation with the bedsheets, which happened the day of our conversation. And she's actually agreed to come back as a peer coach for this time around. So you can learn more about the workshop at yourparentingmojo.com/tamingyourtriggers. Enrollment's open from February 22nd to March 4th, twenty twenty six. And we have a special offer for folks who are on the waitlist. So head on over quickly to yourparentingmojo.com/tamingyourtriggers if you want to get that. So if you want to be less triggered by your kids and your partner and your parents and all the other stuff that's going on in your life, I really hope to see you there.

Hi, I'm Kelly Peterson from Chicago, Illinois. I'm a Your Parenting Mojo fan, and I hope you enjoy the show as much as I do. If you found this episode especially enlightening or useful, you can donate to help Jen produce more content like this and also save us both from those interminable mattress ads you hear on other podcasts. Then you can do that and also subscribe on the link that Jen just mentioned. Thanks for listening.