156: From desperation to collaboration

Jen Lumanlan: 00:02

Hi, I'm Jen and I host the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. We all want our children to lead fulfilling lives, but it can be so

Jenny: 00:09

Do you get tired of hearing the same old interests two podcast episodes? I don't really But Jen thinks you might. I'm Jenny, a listener from Los Angeles, testing out a new way for listeners to record the introductions to podcast episodes. There's no other resource out there quite like Your Parenting Mojo, which doesn't just tell you about the latest scientific research on parenting and child development, but puts it in context for you as well. So you can decide whether and how to use this new information. I listen because parenting can be scary and it's reassuring to know what the experts think. If you'd like to get new episodes in your inbox, along with a free infographic on 13 reasons your child isn't listening to you and what to do about each one. Sign up at YourParentingMojo.com/subscribe. You can also join the free Facebook group to continue the conversation. Over time you might get sick of hearing me read this intro so come and record one yourself. You can read from a script Jen's provided or have some real fun with it and write your own. Just go to YourParentingMojo.com/recordtheintro. I can't wait to hear yours.

Jen Lumanlan: 01:32

Hello, and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. Before we head into our chat with our guest today, I wanted to give you a heads up on what's coming in the conversation because I actually didn't even catch the flow of it until I watched it again later. And I think you'll get more out of it if you know it's coming. My guests today are Adriana and Tim, who are in the parenting membership. And when they joined, I think it's safe to say things were not great in their family. They loved their children, of course, and also, they were at the end of their rope. Adriana had a lot of doubts that things could even be different. And whether working with me could possibly be the thing that would make that happen. When you're in the parenting membership. You can, of course, ask questions in our private community. And because the membership is quite small, I'm intimately involved. It's not like I'm showing up to talk at you a couple of times a month in a video while you're typing in the comments. I'm in the community most days, responding there and on our group coaching calls, where you get to talk with me directly if you want to. When these questions get posted, it’s not hard for me to tell when there are a lot of layers to an issue that would be much better addressed in an actual conversation rather than going back and forth in the chat. So I had a one-on-one consult with Adriana and we talked about some of the struggles she was having with her younger child's behavior. And she and Tim started taking some steps towards meeting more of this child's needs. But things really came to a head when Adriana posted in the community that her children were tearing each other's hair out on a regular basis. And she did not know what to do. A whole lot of parents stepped in to offer compassion and ideas, and the ideas were aligned with what we discussed in our consult. But somehow, something clicked this time. I see that a lot. Sometimes you need to hear things a few times from a few different people, and all of a sudden, the penny drops and you're actually able to do something different. So first, what you hear Adriana and Tim describe in this conversation is that she started using the tools with their oldest child, and then the child wanted to use them with Tim. And that helped them to see some big behavior changes when the child's no longer fighting bedtime because they were able to see and meet his needs with some more modeling and practice with the parents and the children each trying to understand and meet each other's needs and difficult moments they were all having. One day, her children started to do this with each other without Adriana saying a word. They were able to solve their own problems and meet both of their needs without her having to step in as a referee. And I wanted to be sure you saw that coming before you go into the conversation. Because I think so often, we see the problem in isolation. And what she needed was the solution to getting her children to stop fighting. But when she and Tim changed the way that they showed up for their children, their children learned the tools that enabled them to show up differently for each other. The whole thing happened really fast once he got started. And it was amazing to see her posts are rolling with the successes they were having that navigating conflicts in a way that actually met everyone's needs. If you're thinking that maybe you might need some help like this in your own life, then come and join Adriana and Tim and all the other amazing members in our parenting membership, which is open for enrollment right now. You get content each month on a new issue in parenting, from raising healthy eaters to navigating screen time to getting on the same page with your co-parent. You get access to our private not on Facebook community. And you can join a small group of peers who meet every week and form a really tight bond as you navigate challenges together. Every time I talk with a parent about their experience in the membership and ask what advice they would have for other members. They say how hesitant they were to join one of these groups because they couldn't understand how it would help to meet up with other folks who didn't know any more than they did, but they ended up counting the other members in their group as their closest friends, that they can tell anything to without feeling as if they're going to be judged. And we'll meet you exactly where you are. We have members who have barely even looked at the content and yet find their membership a rewarding and fulfilling place to be. We'd love to meet you in the membership. So if you'd like to learn more, you can visit YourParentingMojo.com/parentingmembership enrollments open right now until midnight Pacific on Wednesday, May 25. And we will start together on June 1st. A sliding scale is available too. So now let's get into our conversation with Adriana and Tim. Welcome to both of you. It's so great to have you here.

Tim: 05:37

Thanks for welcoming us. We live in a family of four. We live in Texas; Adrianna, myself, Bodie, and Remy is family dynamic. Bodie is five years old and Remy is three, and should be four in September.

Adrianna: 05:51

May.

Tim: 05:52

Oh, yeah, he's September.

Jen Lumanlan: 05:57

Super. And that's definitely not going to be a problem, but a time I can imagine. And so, what was life like for you two growing up? What kind of background did you come from?

Adrianna: 06:06

I grew up in a big family. There was five of us kids. My parents were divorced. We lived with my mother most of the time. She was a severe alcoholic, very abusive and very neglectful. My sister and I basically raised our little brothers. Occasionally, my dad would take us for like a short time, but for the most part, we just lived like a very fear filled, chaotic, unstable entire childhood.

Tim: 06:30

A lot of that is for me too, also my parents are both for us as well. I have seven brothers and sisters all together, who are extended family, so what not, but there was a lot of love and nurture. In my childhood, from different parts of my family. I have much bigger family than Adrianna does. But a lot of it was not super healthy. I learned a lot of the wrong things, I think, especially with learning how to cope with things and deal with things and awareness of what's going on in my body.

Jen Lumanlan: 07:00

Yeah, plus all the typical gender dynamics at play there.

Tim: 07:04

Yeah, a lot of like, men don't cry, and don't let anybody disrespect you and things of that nature.

Jen Lumanlan: 07:10

Okay, so there was a lot of hard stuff coming from both of you. And so then you become parents. And I guess it was probably slightly challenging. Or was it something that you naturally realized, "Oh, I know, what I don't want to do, and this is what I'm going to do.” What was that process of discovery of being a parent like?

Tim: 07:29

I'll start and then you can correct me. I think that we had both come to a place where we knew a lot of the stuff that we were raised with and what was going on in the world and how we lived our lives. Rather, the majority of our life up to that point was wrong. You know, we felt that there was a better way out there, a better way to live, better way to treat people. And we already started living that sort of life before we came across you. But it was easy for a while and a lot of ways. But you get to a certain point where you kind of cap out and outgrow it, just like reading quotes. You know, reading quotes and just doing the best that you can to be the best person possible, but not really having a clear-cut direction. We aged out there at some point. Aged out is not the right word. Okay.

Adrianna: 08:14

We both have in common that we are in recovery and being in recovery for, I think, when we had Bodie, we're probably at five or six years. And that gave us, like, a really good foundation of just living life, honestly. And, you know, with the mindset of doing the next right thing. So we had some good values, which I think was helpful. So going into parenting, it was like, Okay, let's be nothing like our parents and bring in these principles as like recovery taught us. And that was like a good foundation. It really wasn't really challenging at that point because babies are not the same kind of challenging as toddlers.

Jen Lumanlan: 08:52

Very true. So, what kinds of things was your toddler starting to do that was a little more challenging?

Adrianna: 08:57

So Bodie, our five-year-old when he was young, he was really easy-going. I remember we lived in West Boylston, so. He was probably right around two when he had a tantrum. And I remember being like, "I think this is like his first real show of like defiance." Like, he doesn't do this. Like he listens. He's logical. He doesn't take risks. We thought we were like parents of the year and so it really got challenging. I think when we had a second child I think that's when we really felt like we were absolutely drowning.

Tim: 09:29

Yeah, I do remember as well that we were like killing it at being parents, so that they really got the best parents ever with the best kid ever. And we were just so great and he was so great. And it was so easy. It's not always easy, but then it's just you get a second child and.

Adrianna: 09:49

But also, we were reading a lot of Janet Lansbury stuff. We were listening to her podcast, we had read her books, we were reading her blogs. If we had a problem, I would literally Google Janet Lensbury temper tantrum. Janet Lansbury kids won't get in car. You know what I mean? So, we have this like, respectful parenting foundation. And those tools were enough for a long time.

Jen Lumanlan: 10:07

And then?

Tim: 10:10

Yeah, I mean, I think that we got to a point where it was like, I remember like being in the car, and both of our kids do not like the car at all. They're so good at it now but they did not like being in the car. And that really is not easy at all. So we were like, driving, and I'm driving, and Bodie is upset, and Remy is upset. And you just get to this like, insane point where you're like, "I'm mad at her because they're out of control." And I know it's not her fault, you know, but I still can't help but be mad at her for it for no reason at all. And just didn't like that feeling at all, of just like having these out of control, like insane thoughts going on of being mad at my wife when the kids are crying.

Jen Lumanlan: 10:56

What was that time period like for you, Adriana?

Adrianna: 10:58

Honestly, to be totally transparent. Like, I would say, like the first two years of having a second child, I really struggled with postpartum depression and anxiety. And like, it really shaped how I was able to manage parenting. And like, I still have these values of being respectful and treating my children the way they deserve to be treated. But think that, like, not treating my mental health problems is more than just, like, go take a bath, it's gonna be fine. Like, I really needed to do some bigger things in that the bath totally helped. But there was more to be done. And I think that it just felt impossible. So having the two kids is hard on its own for anybody, but then dealing with those mental health challenges on top It and not being honest and open with my family about what's really going on for me. And just like keeping a lot of it to myself. It was a really, really hard time.

Tim: 11:50

Yeah, And I think that, you know, that was impossible, because it was like we both wanted to do well so bad and we were like, reading books and practicing things, and like, practicing mindfulness and meditating and doing service work, and just like doing everything we can, and still falling short and just being exhausted and falling short all the time.

Adrianna: 12:10

And just waiting to stop surviving. Yeah, you know, like, when are we going to stop just surviving? When are we going to stop drowning? When is this going to be okay? And I do think when your kids get older, things get easier. But I also think when you're able to have like an internal shift of how you look at things, that is a big game changer too.

Tim: 12:26

Yeah, and we also wanted to get the parent of the year award back. A little bit out of reach at the time.

Jen Lumanlan: 12:34

Okay, and so at some point, you heard of the parenting membership that I run. I don't know if you remember how you heard of it, or what the decision-making process was, like, when you decided to join.

Adrianna: 12:45

Yeah, I do. I listened to your podcast. And it was just like, so incredible. Like, I just really felt like occasionally meet these people in life. We were like, I want what they have and I'm willing to go to any lengths to get it. And I was like, on the fence. We were kind of in a financial tight spot at the time. And I was like, I shouldn't really spend the money. And then how am I going to make the time? And you just every excuse in the book. I had time, you know, there was a way for me to do the membership financially. And it wasn't a really hard decision. Once, I was kind of able to stop making up excuses.

Tim: 13:18

I remember feeling a little bit hesitant about it, for sure. At first, because I was just like me, we're already trying everything we can and we're already doing all these things. And I'm already exhausted and I don't have time to do anything already. It's just like week one, do this and then this group call and then this chat, and I was like, where are we going to do that? How is that possible?

Jen Lumanlan: 13:40

Okay, so definitely some skepticism then. I wonder also, if there was some element of is this really going to be the thing? Like if we're already reading the books, we've already done all this stuff. How can this possibly be any different?

Adrianna: 13:51

Totally for me, I have like a really hard time with anything being like, that's not gonna make a difference for me, was like, anything, anything that you say is gonna make my life better? I'm like, "Yeah, no, not going to work." So there was a lot of that, for sure.

Jen Lumanlan: 14:04

So what was it that made you think, "Okay, this is actually worth trying then," if there was so much of that going on?

Adrianna: 14:08

Desperation.

Jen Lumanlan: 14:13

And now in stereo.

Adrianna: 14:16

Being sick and tired, like something needed to change. My mental health was in a much better spot. I had like the energy to, like, do something else to do something different. And for me, like, and I've said this before, like, my values did not align with my actions as much as I needed them to. And don't get me wrong. I wasn't doing horrendous things to my children, but it doesn't like my values weren't aligned with my actions. And that was enough for me to, like, really take some action.

Tim: 14:44

I think we both also learned from being in recovery that you have to do drastic things to change drastically. Knowing that and having experienced that in the past, it kind of made sense that you know, we'd really have to like dig in and I mean, the concept of the structure, I love it. And the support clicks with me pretty well. It's really a good combo.

Jen Lumanlan: 15:06

Okay, so what were some of the earliest successes that you had?

Tim: 15:08

Kids are kids, and like, they're never going to be perfect. You know, they're always going to do things to drive you over the wall. but I think it's more about how we responded to stuff that made a bigger difference. I remember Adrianna was like talking to me in the kitchen and talking through a back and forth she had with the kids earlier in the day. And this time, Bodie was able to kind of recognize what his actual need was in that moment. I can't recall what it was. It was something that a kid need. I needed this color before, or whatever. You know, it was just drawing out this like crazy behavior and having the ability to still watch her process it. Me understand what was going on. And then to see Bodie pick it up too. It was like, okay, you know, this isn't such a waste of time anymore. You know, nothing ever was.

Adrianna: 16:02

Wasn't super towards the beginning. But I remember, there was a time when Bodie was having a hard time going upstairs and go to bed, and you decided to have a problem solving conversation with him, and you guys came to the solution that you would write down the colors he planned to use for certain parts of his picture. And that was his thing. He didn't want to go to bed and forget what his plan was. And that we've done this a few times now, like if he can't go to sleep, because something will write a note and tape it above his bed. And so first thing in the morning, he can jump back into whatever he was doing. And it's so simple. But we wouldn't have gotten to that without being like, "No, hey, what's going on for you right now?" Like, you really don't want to go upstairs, and I don't know what it is. But like, somewhere in the beginning of this membership, I had this shift where I really feel compassion for my children. Like it's not an annoyance. It's not a bother, like when my kids are having a hard time. I don't know, like I feel that for them. And it makes getting down and having that it's not always having the problem solving conversation in the moment, but just being there for them. “Ah, you must be really upset right now to say that to me. Yeah, let me know if there's anything I can do. I'm here for you,” like, and I mean, it affects them in such a different way. Because they can feel that I mean it, you know, so it's been a game changer. Real quick, my earliest success... I don't remember which module it was in, but I realized that I was just setting a lot of really stupid limits. I mix up the words "limits" and "boundaries." I was just saying, not being like, "No, no, no," but just like, "Oh, hey, don't play with that box." Or, "Hey, don't take those spoons out of there." And just setting these really unnecessary limits, like and not even realizing I was doing it, thinking, Oh, I have this need for a clean house. So no, I'm not going to let you rip that box to pieces. But then kind of seeing that maybe if I didn't, in some nice way, say no, seventy-eight times a day, maybe things will look a little different when we actually did need to set a limit that was because of your safety or your well being, you know, when it's not like my kids are running around the house just painting on the walls and ripping things apart. But it's just different now that I've kind of become mindful of how often you can say no, in lots of ways, for no good reason.

Jen Lumanlan: 18:07

Absolutely. And what are your kids really hearing right? When you get down on their level, what they are hearing is I matter is that you, the parent, truly care about what's going on for me and about seeing me for who I really am, and not just seeing this behavior that I did, because I didn't know how else to get your attention or to convey this. You know, this thing that I'm trying to tell you, you're seeing what's truly underneath that. I mean, that's all any of us wants in life is to be truly seen and truly known. And you're giving that gift to your children. So early on, it's awesome to hear about one of the things that I look back on in your tenure in the membership is the sibling dynamic that was going on there for a few months. And it seemed as though, from your posts, you were kind of at the end of your rope with that. Can you tell us a bit about what was going on there and what that transition process was like for you?

Adrianna: 18:56

It still can be. So obviously, the goal of this is never to like change my children's behavior. But like just figuring out a way to show up to it differently has made a difference. So they don't fight. They're still siblings, but it was just really overwhelming to where I just didn't know. it is really hard when two children have needs in the same moment. And it's not possible to meet them both. I don't know, I think before when they would fight I would jump in and be like, "Okay, you over here, you over here," like I would see him hurting her or her hurting him. And it obviously triggered something inside of me like, "Siblings aren't supposed to do that. You guys have to be best friends." I just made up ideas in my head about what things should look like versus what they actually do look like. Like now, if my kids are having a disagreement or an argument, the first thing I do is just say, "Hey, I hear some loud voices. Do you guys need help? Are you figuring it out?" And they can figure it out sometimes, but they can tell me when they just can't, and so if they do need my help, what usually works for us usually they both want to talk at the same time. And they both have something super important to say. And then it's like another fight about whose thing is more important, to say. So we get one of our favorite stuffed animals. And we all just take turns holding it and say everything we need to say. And then we start coming up with ideas on how this can work for everybody. And most of the time, we can figure it out. You know, usually, it's like he really wanted this Lego minifigure. But she's playing with it. And it's really special to her, it's really big for both of them. And usually when they can each say what they were hoping to have happen, they can work it out. And if not, we either just move on to something different for a little while, we read a book together, we cuddled together, or the kids had some separate time in their rooms. And it's not a punishment, it's I'm gonna sit in between your guys' bedrooms right now. I'm going to get to each setup with something you love to do. And I'm going to check in with both of you. And we'll try to play together again in a while. And it sounds like really simple stuff. And it is, but I had to wipe away those preconceived notions of how I thought things should be before I was able to be open to those new ideas on how to show up for them during conflicts.

Tim: 21:02

Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I learned from, you know, the sibling rivalry stuff was that, you know, it's because you have one kid, and they have a problem, one or both of you can be totally there and just do whatever needs to happen in that moment. But when you throw somebody out, another one the next and you know, and there's only one parent there, you can't always, or most of the time, even do it right there. So I think it was a really long way of saying that, you know, we had to look at the holistic, like day, and you know, life rather than that moment. You know, if we were able to identify the need and get out ahead of it beforehand, you know, that will pull us out of a lot more of the situation. And I don't think it's ever going to be perfect, and there's going to be tons of times new just outmatched. But you know, it gives us, that gives you a better opportunity to get through stuff.

Adrianna: 21:53

Like sometimes the same problem, to give you a specific example, like both children crying, both really wanting to be with me to be held to be physically comforted. But they don't want to be touching. So I'll say, "Oh, I have two legs you can each sit on one of my legs, and I'll put my arms around each of you." And then they're like, "No, we're touching. We don't want to be touching." And they're crying. And one time when this happened, they weren't so far gone, we couldn't talk about it, we did have a problem solving conversation. And we just like sat there and brainstormed all these ways that they could both get that physical connection need met. And you know, Remy is like, well, I can sit in your lap and he can sit lower down between your ankles. And then we're both touching you. It kind of serve also as a tool to just calm down a little bit. I don't even remember what the solution was at that time. But that's a common problem with both kids want all of me. And to touch on what he said, we try to carve out one-on-one time with the kids because they're less likely to have that need, like during a conflict if they're getting it met ahead of time. And that's something we definitely learned from. I think it was a call with you or something.

Jen Lumanlan: 22:59

Yeah, And I remember a very specific string of posts. You were looking for advice from people you were posting in the group. And I think you mentioned a book about siblings. That actually is a book I respect that you said, I read the book, and I didn't like the book, and I need some help. And a bunch of people sort of who have multiple children said, "You know, here's some things I've tried." And it seemed as though you got a little shift from that. And I think you'd already been practicing identifying needs with each child individually. But I hadn't seen you do it together with the two children before. And I think there were a couple of times when you were trying to figure it out, trying to figure it out. And then it was a series of posts in the group where you were like, "I have to share this and you were the only people who will understand." that I remember one post where I think you said the Bodhi was coloring or drawing or something. And Remy came in and wanted to participate in it. And Bodie said, and what are you trying to do? Or what's your need right now or something like that. And together, the two of them were able to identify what was her need and meet that need. And this thing that could have escalated into she took my crayon and and it became this beautiful example yeah.

Adrianna: 24:04

She came in was trying to like color on his paper. And he was like, "Wait a second, Remy, let's talk about this. What do you need right now?" And she said, "I just really wanted some extra playtime with you because you spend so much time coloring lately." And he said, "Okay, what if I stop coloring for a few minutes and go play with you?" And she said, "Okay." Then they play together.

Tim: 24:20

Yeah, magical.

Jen Lumanlan: 24:22

And they were how old at that time?

Adrianna: 24:23

Maybe like just three and four.

Jen Lumanlan: 24:26

Right

Tim: 24:26

Yeah, it's pretty cool when they do it. And I even got home from work and I wanted to get them to bed. So we had an engagement we had to keep, you know, so it was like super important to me. But we also had to set up our tent in the backyard. So I'm like going through that and we sat down and talked about like some safety stuff before we set up the tent and it was a brief conversation and then they ended up they have all the sticks and they're running around the yard losing them and Bodie has the hatchet and he's swinging around. And you know, I'm trying to get the tent up and it falls over and I'm like, getting short. So then, whatever. I bring them upstairs, I'm not having a great time, they're not behaving the way I'd want them to, and continues on into bedtime. And I just like pause for a minute. And I was just like, "Guys, I'm really sorry that I've been short with you. I'm just a little worried that you're not listening to anything I say, and we're going camping soon. And a lot of dangerous things could happen. If we're not listening, You know, what's going on actually made me cry a little bit. But Remy, you know, I went on to say, I love you so much. And you're so important to me, and yada, yada, yada. And Remy said to me, "That's not true. You always go to work and leave us." And I was like, you know, so I kind of. I felt so bad, you know, but I wanted to, like, explain to her why I go to work, you know. And I think when she understood that a little bit, it made more sense to her, you know, I'm not going to work. So I want to be away from you guys. I'm going to work to provide for us.

Adrianna: 25:53

Just to see that like that misbehavior is connected to this unmet need of having some more time with her dad. Yeah, I have heard being able to say that

Tim: 26:03

Yeah, I came home like a tornado. And I'm trying to do all this stuff and from work, and you know, and this is our time together, and I'm just like being a jerk about it all. I would have affected her, you know, because normally I just play and, yeah, normally we just play and have fun until bedtime. I had an agenda. Yeah, that's another good lesson, too. You know, usually when I'm upset, they're upset. And I'm usually upset when I have an agenda timeline to keep.

Jen Lumanlan: 26:27

Yeah, for sure. I was about to give you a different kind of dad of the year award when I heard the swinging of the hatchet. So Tim, I'm especially curious because we do have dads who are engaged in the group. We see it's less common for dads to be doing this kind of work than for moms to be doing this work, you know, female, identifying parents, and I'm wondering how that experience has been for you, as a dad engaging more deeply with the learning about different methods of parenting and different ways of interacting with your children. Has it been difficult at all? Has it been easier than you expected? What would you say to dads who are listening to this and thinking, Is it really my job to be doing this stuff?

Tim: 27:08

I guess I don't think that way a lot. You know, and I do have lots of other dad friends and stuff that very men should work and women should do that. And I don't believe that. I shouldn't say I don't believe that. Because I do have that in me somewhere. But I know it's wrong, you know. So usually when I comes from my childhood, and for me, like anything that goes through my childhood, I usually just run away from the other way. Im like that's how I was raised. So I should definitely be doing it. You know, I think a lot of ways that stuff comes a little bit easier for me. And, yeah, I mean, you have to kind of shed some of those, I guess, based on male thought processes of being tough, and, you know, just dealing with it. And I mean, that's I was totally raised on not showing emotion and not letting people see your weaknesses and stuff like that. 100% That's how I was raised. And that's so it's even hard for me a lot of times to do it, but I do know the value in it. And so, you know, it does makes it possible for me, and I know it's going to get us to where we need to be. So just do it, guys. It's great. Do it.

Jen Lumanlan: 28:13

So where are you headed as a family besides camping this weekend? What's life in the future for you?

Tim: 28:20

I think pass next week sometimes. I mean, our family is like, so important to us. It's like the only thing that really matters I think to us, which we might need to mix some other stuff in there. But you know, it's our driving force to be together and to be healthy together. I think, you know, that's super important. And really, just the more we can know the truth of what's going on. I think we feel that's our place. You know, that's the need to go anything that comes about it, then great. Anytime we try to control things and push things into a direction we want it to go in, and just kind of a recipe for disaster. So we don't know what our kids want to do. We don't know what we want to do, at least I don't, but I think if we're loving each other and we're digging in for truth, we know that, you know, whatever happens is going to be okay.

Jen Lumanlan: 29:07

Adriana, do you want to add to that?

Adrianna: 29:08

I mean, when I think about the future, I honestly just picture us like continuing to adventure together and just experience it's important to plan for the future. But I also think it's super important to like live right now. So caught up in like, "Let's sell everything we own and buy an RV. Let's do this. Let's do that." But like right now, we have this incredible gift of being able to just like be with our children, explore nature, do puzzles, and just like it's okay to be content with right now. And we want to continue growing as parents and growing as a family and to see where that goes.

Jen Lumanlan: 29:42

Yeah, and I wonder if this has impacted other relationships in your lives beyond your relationships with your children.

Tim: 29:48

It interferes with some relationships in my life because sometimes I try to tell my friends, "Dude, don't talk to your kid like that, you know, they're not being bad. They have something going on your phone really short as a dad to help them out." So that doesn't usually go well. You know, when I see that, it's so clear, because I know that they're not that people and they don't mean to, you know, but it's so clear, like, there's damage going on there. And you don't even know, you know, you think you're doing the best. So whatever back to the question. It helps me out a lot at work. I manage a lot of people. And it's really super helpful in that regard of having compassion and empathy and compassion and empathy for people, you know. So we have this big group of people. And when I start seeing behaviors popping off, left and right over here, you know, I stopped thinking about the individuals and like what's going on in our little network here, a little environment that might be causing this kind of stuff. And you can usually find some root cause that is happening that stems from me or somebody else. And it gives you an avenue to kind of fix that.

Adrianna: 30:49

It definitely impacted our relationship. I think it was like, I don't remember exactly how long ago it was. But we were on a coaching call. It was a group coaching call. I just remember we were in bed eating burgers. Yeah, we were during the call, our kid had a stomach bug, and they were upstairs sleeping. So that was a really stressful time, which I think is why I remember all these little details. And like it had just kind of occurred to me that I wasn't extending the same respect to my husband that I was to my children, I would catch myself saying things to him, too. That was "you wouldn't say that to one of our kids. Like, why are you talking to me like that?" But I was doing it too. But it just became more obvious, or evident, the deeper we got into this parenting work. And we started making a conscious effort to work on our marriage. And we read marriage counseling type of books together. We try to talk about our feelings. Feelings are super hard for both of us for different reasons. We've tried. We really make more of an effort. I will say, "Hey, I feel like I have a story in my head that you're kind of sick of me today. Is everything okay?" and just kind of coming out with it and not letting it fester. And it's definitely helped me feel connected with him more regularly than I used to.

Tim: 31:56

I was much more so than with the kids. Honestly, you know, it's so important. And again, like we've always loved each other and always, like, wanted to be the best that we could, but you're running around and you get two kids and you're tapping each other out. And there's not enough time for everyone to get what they need all the time. And it comes back to the same thing of being there for each other and ourselves to you know. Making sure we're taking care of ourselves, which I'm still not really good at, but get the kids, then the wife, and you know, homework. I mean, I know it should be the other way.

Adrianna: 32:28

Like you go to the store sometimes by yourself. You've been really stepping out there. Camping store the other day. That was crazy or progress.

Tim: 32:41

Yeah, I mean, yes, that if someone was to ask me, I would say as valuable for the marriage as it is for the kids.

Jen Lumanlan: 32:47

Yeah, and Adriana, I think seeing your needs as valid has been really important to you as well. Right?

Adrianna: 32:52

Yes, I spent a long time trying to be somebody that I wasn't in trying to, like, I shouldn't be like this, I want to be like this. And doing that totally makes seeing your own needs impossible. Because even if you do see them, they're not valid. I work with a therapist. And it's been really enlightening to see these patterns of behavior, and it's kind of like I put on a new pair of glasses, and I'm no longer living in the like I should, or why am I not? Or this is me. And that's really helped me so much.

Jen Lumanlan: 33:30

Yeah, I can see it in you. That confidence that you didn't have when we first started interacting, and the confident in understanding who you are and what your needs are, and that you're worthy of having those met. And it's amazing to see. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. It was such a pleasure to talk with you both.

Tim: 33:45

Likewise, thanks for having us.

Jen Lumanlan: 33:51

And don't forget that if you'd like to join Adriana and Tim in the parenting membership and make the kind of shift that they've made in their family to go from desperation to feeling like they're on a path that feels right for them, then come on over to Yourparentingmojo.com/parentingmembership to learn more and sign up. I can't wait to meet you.

Jenny: 34:10

Hi, this is Jenny from Los Angeles. We know that you have a lot of choices about where you get information about parenting. And we're honored that you've chosen us as we move toward a world in which everyone's lives and contributions are valued. If you'd like to help keep the show ad free, please consider making a donation on the episode page that Jen just mentioned. Thanks again for listening to this episode of The Your Parenting Mojo podcast. Don't forget to head to your parenting mojo.com forward slash record the intro to record your own messages for the show.