SYPM 019: Why are you always so angry?

Jen Lumanlan  00:02

Hi, I’m Jen and I host the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. We all want our children to lead fulfilling lives. But it can be so

 

Jessica  00:11

Do you get tired of hearing the same old intros to podcast episodes? Me too. Hi, I’m not Jen. I’m Jessica, and I’m in Burlesque Panama. Jen has just created a new way for listeners to record the introductions to podcast episodes, and I got to test it out. There’s no other resource out there quite like Your Parenting Mojo, which doesn’t just tell you about the latest scientific research on parenting and child development. It puts it in context for you as well. So, you can decide whether and how to use this new information. If you’d like to get new episodes in your inbox, along with a free infographic on 13 reasons your child isn’t listening to you what to do about each one. Sign up at YourParentingMojo.com/subscribe, and come over to our free Facebook group to continue the conversation about this episode. You can also thank Jen for this episode by donating to keep the podcast ad free by going to the page for this or any other episode on YourParentingMojo.com. If you’d like to start a conversation with someone about this episode or know someone who would find it useful, please forward it to them. Over time, you’re gonna get sick of hearing me read this intro as well. So come and record on yourself. You can read from a script she’s provided or have some real fun with it and write your own. Just go to YourParentingMojo.com and click Read the Intro and I can’t wait to hear yours.

 

Jen Lumanlan  01:33

Hello, and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. We’re here with a very special guest today parent Iris. Iris, I wonder if you wouldn’t mind telling us just a little bit about you and your family. Where are you in the world? Where are you from?

 

Iris  01:43

Yeah, I live in the west coast of Canada in the city of Vancouver with my husband and my almost seven-year-old daughter, Malaya. And Malaya is feisty and funny, and she’s just this energetic bunny. Oh, she’s human, but not the rabbit. But you know, she is like an energizer bunny just going on and on and on. And I work in a field where not many people want to talk about it, or maybe even think about it. And that is in the field of death and dying. And so, I guess most parents are familiar with childbirth educator or birth doula. And so I like to think of it not my work not as an opposite, but as the other part of life. So, I support people who are grieving and, you know, practical and heart-centered planning. So it’s from wills and advanced care directives to like, you know, how would you like to be cared for after you die, and rituals and ceremonies and things like that. I’m an end-of-life educator and end-of-life doula. And one important thing, I immigrated to Canada from the Philippines in 2005. And in the summer of that year, I met a man that became my husband. And in the beginning, I was sort of sitting on the fence, I’m going to have a child, my husband already had a daughter from a previous marriage, but he was asking me, okay, if you want the child like, you know, you decide I’m okay either way. And at first, I was like, oh, you know, like, you know, this philosophical and existential, kind of like, back and forth. And so, I was trying to get pregnant and I knew I wanted a child when it was clear that I probably wouldn’t get pregnant, like, you know, I mean, I was having a hard time getting pregnant. And so after six years; six years of fertility treatment and roller coaster of emotions at the ripe age of 41. I gave birth to Malaya. And by this time, I’ve had a meaningful and successful work life. And so in positions of like, big responsibility, and I was like, “Motherhood. Oh, I’ll be okay. I’ve done these things.” And like, “Motherhood. It’s just I can do this, huh” Famous last words.

 

Jen Lumanlan  04:23

Yeah, and of course, there’s the added challenge of when you’ve worked so hard to have a baby and then to have these moments where you just want to ring that child’s neck. It’s like, how can these two things go together? So yeah, I’m sure that we’ll talk about that in a minute. But the reason that I wanted to talk with you is because you’ve just finished the most recent round of the taming your triggers workshop, and this was not your first time. And I first realized that you have taken it multiple times when I think you were on your third time around, and I think you’d barely looked in the community the first couple of times and so I didn’t really know that you were there. And then when I saw your name coming through again, on the participant list, my first thought was this massive hot flush of shame because I was just thinking, why do people have to come back and do this multiple times? If I was a good teacher? Shouldn’t I be able to transfer this knowledge to you and send you out the door and to live your life. And so there was this real moment of fear and shame when I first saw that you were taking the workshop multiple times. And so, I wonder, can you tell us a little bit about how this has played out for you what this process has been like for you as you’ve navigated your journey with having triggers with your very spirited daughter?

 

Iris  05:45

Yeah. So first off, Jen, I like to say sorry, for your shame or something.

 

Jen Lumanlan  05:51

Apology accepted.

 

Iris  05:54

And you’re right, the first two times I was just lurking around the community. And I will talk more about that, when I decided to come out as a repeater of the taming your trigger workshop, it was because I wanted you and the others to know that I truly, truly believe in the workshop that you have designed. And by this time, I’ve also followed you not in a stalker creepy way, but I followed your podcast for quite a while. And so I knew that I needed this, that I knew that I was one of those in your advertisement if you are this and that, and oh, my goodness, I checked all the lists. And so I knew that there was no doubt in my mind that it was going to be transformative for me, that’s why I kept on joining. The third and the fourth time, I’d say to people, I’ve done this several times, I’m not ashamed to say that I’m not proud either. It’s just it is what it is. So your question about how the journey taking the taming your trigger workshop multiple times. Before I answer that question, I want to give a little bit of context, first off a context of my life so that people will have more understanding. I grew up in an urban poor neighborhood in the Philippines, people did not really have enough material things, and we relied on each other for material or personal support. And so for example, you’d go like, oh, I need to prepare dinner, but then oh, we don’t have rice, because rice is very important. And then my mother will just say, okay, go next door and ask our neighbor to just borrow a kilo of rice, and then we will replace it later. So yeah, no problem with that, or for example, a neighbor would say, oh, I need to go to the market. But I need somebody to keep an eye on my children and there’s no problem because it’s okay, we can supervise, we can look after them. They’re mostly independent. And so there was really a strong sense of community and like people really in birth or death and all such life situations in between, there’s really that community, you know, your neighbors got your back or your extended family got your back. So I did not know I was poor, like, I was just like, like, you know, like, I was just being a kid. It was when I went to school that I realize, oh, other people have other situations. And you see my mother work as a dressmaker in a private Catholic very upscale school and the tuition fee there was like, there’s no way we could afford the tuition fee. But because she was working there  and employee, that’s one of their privileges or benefits, I guess. I was there. And my classmates were like, because this is all girls school; daughters of congressmen or politicians, and then you know, like their businesses, they own restaurants and all those things. And I was the dressmaker’s daughter, which was fine because many of my classmates knew her and even called her “Nanay, which means mother. I call my mother Nanay, they would also call her. And so I felt that I was liked, you know, except for the rich, poor thing. I was like, I had friends, and I did not feel quite deprived in that area, but I can see that now. They have their nice shoes, whereas my shoes are like, my toe would be showing. I had good grades, and I was active in extracurricular activities. So my life here in Canada, of course, is like, very, very different from my life there, of course, Malaya, likely not experienced that life of sense of scarcity and economic insecurity, and so that is one of my trigger, you know, like, all those things. And so I’ve always said since I moved here, there were, of course, a lot of things that I really enjoyed and everything, but I felt the absence of my community and I felt the loss of my very wide support system. And I felt this very acutely after I gave birth. So it wasn’t a surprise to me when my doctor said, Iris, you have postpartum depression. And I sort of knew it beforehand because I’ve been having low-grade depression since I came here, and like, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know, to know that. So I joined a lot of support groups for new moms, and I was in individual counseling, and that’s one good thing about being here in Canada, there’s like, social support system as well. For a long time, I was really resisting taking medication. I know in some areas; this is all hush-hush when it comes to mental health and medication, I just want to lay it all out on the table. And for a long time, I resisted getting medication because I saw it as a sign of weakness and you know, I was like, oh, I was a school guidance counselor so I knew these things and mental health, blah, blah, blah. And I started a nonprofit organization. And I was, I can do this. Of course, motherhood is a totally different ballgame.

 

Jen Lumanlan  11:22

Yeah, it totally is. Yeah. Was there a specific incident that caused you to say, I need more help than I’m getting right now? I need to do something differently than what I’m doing right now.

 

Iris  11:34

Yeah, for sure. So actually, two instances. First, when Malaya was about three years old, we were in the park and I usually pack food, like, you know, snacks and things like that. I was hungry. And that’s one of my factors. I was hungry and she was at the stage, Jen, were like, you ask her for something, and she’s like, “No, I won’t give you,” and I kept on asking because I was really hungry, and she really wouldn’t give me. And I packed for both of us, by the way, and then a crow swooped in and got into the container. I don’t know if it’s grapes or nuts; all of those things spilled out on the ground. And I was just so so angry! I feel this hot thing coming out from my gut here and Malaya started crying because she felt that energy, and I felt very guilty about that. I was like, “Oh my God, what am I doing?” And yet, I also recognized that there was something so primal in being denied; in “being denied” for food. I wasn’t rational at all. And then the other instance, was when out of the blue Malaya asked me, “Mama, why are you always angry?” And the way she asked was really significant to me because she asked out of curiosity. It wasn’t there was no judgment. She just like wanted to understand and concern in her voice, like, “Why is this?” And so I’m all for being open and vulnerable and showing all facets of myself to my daughter. But I just had this instinctive feeling that it’s not good for a child to be always looking at her parents who are supposed to take care of her. And always like, erupting like a volcano every hour or something. So that’s when I need more help than the medication, I need more help than counseling, I need more help than all these things I’m doing for myself to help me.

 

Jen Lumanlan  13:40

Yeah. Okay. And so you’ve been through this. And we have actually lost track, or I have at least lost track, I am uncertain if we are on round number four and number five at this point. But what I’m wondering is, if a person is listening to this, they can say, “Well, I don’t want to have to go through this thing four or five times to actually do something different!” So what would you say to somebody who’s thinking that okay, yes, I see myself exploiting sometimes as well or maybe I’m not an exploding kind of person, I’m a freeze up kind of person, or a walk away kind of person, or fawn, and just get the crying and the screaming, just stop kind of person. if I’m seeing myself having these reactions to my child’s behavior, I’m thinking, but I don’t want to have to do the same thing four or five times to do something different. What would you say to somebody who’s in that position right now?

 

Iris  14:23

The first two times when I was lurking, I can tell you exactly what I was doing, even if I sort of petered out. So, I was really spending a lot of time identifying my triggers, and seeing what are the factors that caused me to erupt. The main thing that I was really working on in the first module, I think Jen was the window of tolerance, and how to increase our window of tolerance. And I know that like being hungry, being tired, being sleep deprived—those are the factors that narrow my window of tolerance. So the second time I did the course again, I made sure that I have support something like cooking a big batch of food, so that I don’t have to be like, oh my god like to cook and again and again and again every day. And then also, I scheduled more sessions with my therapist. I just made sure I said no to other time commitments or other things that get my attention. And called my friends and say, “Can you please call me when you don’t see me?” Like, can you say, “Oh, are we going for a walk or something?” So those things, I like to think of my four or five times in the workshop, as I like to imagine myself as like a horse trainer. And the process of taming my own trigger is the wild doors. And so the first few times were just about me getting into the saddle. And just like, holding on. And just, of course, right now, I’m not the star in the rodeo, or however you call that, I think I am staying in the saddle long enough to enjoy the ride. That was it. And then every time I register again, I learn more and more, and I cover more and more modules. And one thing that really was quite helpful to me was when you reorganize the modules, it’s the things that help us with our triggers, and not just like, analyzing hollered triggers. And this last time, there was a call and I had my food ready and all this other support, and it was just this kind of fruit salad, all these things that really kept me sitting on the saddle long enough to spend time with my wild horse of triggers.

 

Jen Lumanlan  16:51

Oh, wow. That’s amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that I love the metaphor. And yeah, I just want to sort of translate a couple of things that you said, for folks who are newer to this, what I’m hearing from you is that I’ve added to the content over the times that I’ve done it but it hasn’t changed dramatically, or firstly organized at logically. Having all these logical skills, thinking this is the way people need to hear it. First of all, you need to understand where your triggers coming from and then once you understand that you can learn what to do about them. But of course, what we found is that in the actual experience of this, they want more time with the tools, they need more practice with the tools, and they don’t want to spend five weeks wallowing around and why do I feel so crappy, so much of the time before they start learning those tools. So yeah, we started alternating the module content so that we take a module where we’re understanding what’s the cause of our triggers, or trigger feelings, and then we start learning a new tool, and then the next week revert to another dig a bit deeper on where’s this coming from? Okay, now, let’s bring in another aspect of the tool, so my logical brain just, I’m like, I can’t believe we’re doing it like this. But it seemed as though it really, really helped people to get the practice they need with it. And also, to not feel as though, “Oh, my goodness, when are we actually going to learn the stuff that’s going to help rather than just the understanding of where it came from?” So, I think that parts important. And then the second part that I think is super important is basically what your metaphor is saying is that very often, it’s our brains that are trying to protect us from engaging with this content, it’s not necessarily that I added new content that you had to keep coming back for is that your brain was putting into place all of these mechanisms to say this is really scary. And I’m not ready to deal with this right now. And so I remember you telling me that you would have these really physical responses, you would be physically ill after going through this, and this does not happen to everybody. And the experience of it was overwhelming, and you know, not everybody is going to need massive meal planning and all of the other stuff. But if you are a kind of person who processes things very deeply, then those kinds of support can be super useful. You know, the time commitment itself is not very much but when you’re really trying to shift something, it can take a lot out of you. And the deeper you engage with that, the more your brain is thinking, “But I use these ways of being in the world to protect myself, I set these things up to protect myself.” And you’re saying, “Yes, thank you for doing that. I’m so glad you did that,” and also, “It’s not helping me anymore. And so I’m going to try and learn some new tools.” And so that’s you hanging on this time, you’ve gotten beyond the phase where you’re just hanging on eyes wide. Trying to stay on as the bucking bronco is trying to kick you off, and you’re like, “Okay, we’re here now. This is what we’re doing.”

 

Iris  19:32

Yeah, that’s one thing too. I’m a person who like embodies learning. And so I know lots of things in my head, but it doesn’t click. The reaction is I have a physical, visceral reaction too, so I know not many people are like that. So

 

Jen Lumanlan  19:49

Yeah, not maybe not as strongly but just on the point of the embodied learning. I mean, that’s really what we’re going for it through the workshop is what I call a non-cognitive shift. It’s not that hard to read the content; “Thinking, okay, yep, I agree with that. I agree with that, I’m going to start doing that now. That part is not hard. The part that is much harder is taking on these ideas not up here in your brain, but in your body, so it’s just part of how you exist in the world, and that’s the noncognitive shift part. And you can’t predict, you can’t set it up. You can’t say, “Okay, practice this meditation technique for five hours a day, and on day six it’s going to happen.” It’s something that happens unique to every person, for some people, it doesn’t happen, some people are like, “Whoa, now I see things in a totally different way than I did before.” Do you remember having a specific noncognitive shift? Or was it more of a general sense for you?

 

Iris  20:40

There were several moments actually when it felt kind of like “chick.” And this last time, when we had our calls, that first session that we had, like, my life is hard. And my life in the Philippines was hard. They’re both hard and you cannot compare those two things. And I remember you guiding me repeating, like, this is hard. There’s this thing that sort of like, came down on me and, then I accepted it that, okay, this is hard, even with all these material things, all the resources, it’s hard. And I really felt it in my body, and I accepted it. I thought of that before many times, but there’s just this like, “No,” like, you know, this kind of critical voice, and that’s one moment. And the other moment, too, that sort of clicked for me in terms of like, what to do, or the techniques, Jen is… So that first call, you guided me through the process and I remember, I was like a runaway train, “No, this one. And this one and my mother isn’t she..” The feeling I was like a runaway train, I cannot stop myself. And then you said something about, like, touch the surface of the kitchen counter, not me, but the computer was on the kitchen counter. The smoothness just brought me back and so that sort of halted the runaway train. And I remember I was sobbing, and I was just like, so full of all these emotions, and then I said something like, “I want to throw things, I want to scream, I want to like,” and so you said, “Okay, feel free to scream.” I muted my zoom thing, I just left out this like, very primal scream that came from here, and I was just like, it felt good. It just felt good to be lifting with my voice, I lifted that burden, or whatever it was. And so in that first session, you guided me through like grounding technique, okay, such that smooth counter, things like that. And then I also remember very vividly our second to the last call, you were guiding us through the imagery of I think it was like we were in front of a pond or near a pond, and we were to put our concerns or worries in the pond like them there, and I remember I was lying down, and my computer was just nearby, and then my brain started going runaway train again, oh, my God, this brain. And in my imagery, I did not hear your voice anymore. In my imagery, I was in the pond, I was drowning, and I, you know, was having a hard time. And instinctively I didn’t even think about it. I reached for my laptop and just touch the smooth surface of my laptop and that brought me back, okay, I’m not really in there—I can bring myself back. And maybe my husband is very logical Jen, and as a science, and math person, and so stories will maybe sort of like strange to him. And I know some of the listeners may be like that, too. But then I’m just like, “This is my reality and this is my truth.” So we can all live together in harmony, the logical and the illogical people, and emotional people like me, so.

 

Jen Lumanlan  24:26

Yeah. Oh, my goodness, you just took me back to that call where we do the group coaching calls. We have them usually every other week. Yes, I think the one you were talking about was probably this first call you mentioned was probably the second call when we built up a little bit of trust between the participants there to support each other. And yeah, I remember, you were sort of spiraling, right? And this is a grounding technique of reaching out and touching something that’s around you that gets you out of your stories. I mean, I get goosebumps just thinking about that scream. I was actually hoping you would leave the microphone on so that we could hear it but you turned it off and you put it on mute. And I wonder actually if that made it even more indelible because I just remember you were hunched over, and so you were in one corner of the frame and your whole face is, I mean, this scream is just taking over every part of you that I can see. It was just such a primal visceral moment and then it really did feel as though that shifted something for you. And then I think one thing that people who are new to group coaching are like, “Isn’t it weird to be talking about yourself while other people are watching?” “And could it really help me if I’m not the one being talked to?” And what was really interesting, I think for the people watching was to see you just be so raw and vulnerable. And then 10 minutes later, I was talking to somebody else, and I saw you sitting there eating your breakfast. And zooming on this moment for a sec, and you were like, totally placid. Yeah, it was a metaphor. And, I think it was just such a profound realization for people on the call to see that we can be in what just feels like it’s just taking over our bodies, and if we don’t hang on to it if we let it pass through us, it will keep going. It’s when we hang on that it creates so much struggle for us. And then it’s okay, and then we can move on with our lives and sit there and have our breakfast, and here are the people being coached and get something out of that. So that was truly a profound moment for me and I think also for a lot of people on the call who are watching that as well. I wonder if you want to speak maybe we have these group calls, and I coach you through different exercises and stuff. Is it weird for you? Is any of the meditation stuff? You’re like, “Why are we doing this?” And then you do it, I help you to do it. And then you do it yourself, and you’re like, “Oh, the penny drops.” What is that process like for you of being on those calls?

 

Iris  26:45

I’m a learner who was more into like, talking and being in groups, and I learned better with others. And so the call I think was really, really made a very big difference to me to the kind of learner that I am. And I’m also more of an interpersonal or intrapersonal, like reflection. What you will say is weird, is just not weird to me and so a very rich learning environment for me. And the other thing, too, is that in this work there are times when it seems like it’s so much and there are other stresses in our life, and that it’s easy not to read the module, not to attend the calls, but for me, I feel this connection with others. So there were a couple of times when I was like, “Oh, maybe I’ll just watch Netflix or maybe or whatever,” you know, but then I stopped myself, this is not just about me, this is about showing up for people and being there and listening to their stories. And I work that way. If it’s for somebody else, I have more motivation. So that was really important to me to be present for other people the way that they have been present to me. And one other thing, I learned a lot and in fact, this is nicer because, in therapy, it’s just me, right? Like unless it’s group therapy, it takes out more of me in terms of energy. Being in a group, if you are sort of guiding somebody else through the process of what their issues are. Sometimes, it’s the exact same thing that I’m also experiencing, you just changed the name of the child to Malaya and there are some little things and it applies. And in its specificity, there is a universality to it, and I learned just by being there by listening. And the other thing too is I think you notice this towards the end of our session, more and more people have something to say to each other. Maybe not in the beginning but I think attending the calls with openness and also like really vulnerability and just this being there as you are, even in your pajamas. I think it really fosters this connection with others. Those were really life-changing for me. The process of being in the small group with these other women.

 

Jen Lumanlan  29:14

Yeah, I’m often and I think the participants are as well struck by the fact that you could be talking with someone from a completely different country from a different culture, you change out the child’s name, and the exact circumstance was different. Their thing was about getting their kid in the car seat and your thing is about, you know, mess in the house or something else. And you switch out the details, and you’re nodding as if this is not a thing for you. And you switch out the precise details and participants are often like, “That’s me.” That is me that is describing what happened to me yesterday or last week or this other interaction. And I think people don’t realize until they hear that firstly, I’m not alone. I’m not the only one struggling with this, I’m not the only one having a hard time. And secondly, just what a profound experience it is to hear somebody themselves make this kind of shift that noncognitive shift, you’re not on the spot, you’re not the one who actually has to go through it in that moment. But you see how well it applies to your life and that enables you to apply these ideas even though you weren’t necessarily the one being coached.

 

Iris  30:29

Yeah, and you said an important word there too, Jen. The community and just the feeling that okay, I’m not the only one. I’m not this weird, “bad mother” who cannot handle her child. There are other mothers or parents who parent this too, and just that knowledge alone, very freeing.

 

Jen Lumanlan  30:50

Yeah, for sure. And then I think the other thing that’s really important, and what you said, is, on our last call in this series, when you all had gotten to know each other pretty well by that point, and you shared some pretty vulnerable moments in your lives. And the participants on the call started coaching each other, and not in an “Oh, you should do this, or you should do that.” But it was just this beautiful moment to have empathy for each other, and, and supporting each other through the learning and applying the learning of the tools that we had been working on over the last 10 weeks or so.

 

Iris  31:26

It’s really interesting for me because this was my experience listening to other participants when they share their stories, I’m thinking like, “You could have tried this, or you could have tried that.” But then, because it’s out of me because it’s somebody else. But of course, if I’m in the exact same situation, I’ll be like, at a loss. That’s one of the things that I really appreciate the confidence I can see in the other participants like this kind of like the face is just clearer and like something that I can see. And I felt as well.

 

Jen Lumanlan  32:01

Yeah. So what’s different now then? I’m not expecting this story about how you’re fixed now. And do you never exploded to Malaya. But what is different? What shifts have you seen in how you’re able to show up with her and how you’re able to be with her?

 

Iris  32:15

First thing is that it feels okay, that I’m not perfect. It feels okay that I have all these mistakes, and it feels okay. And in my body, like sometimes I just say it in my head, it feels okay that I have these mistakes, and then I correct them. I talked to Malaya about like, “Oh, I’m sorry.” “I was pretty grumpy earlier.” So that’s the first thing to be a good enough mother, a good enough parent. And to heck with perfection. So that’s one of the things, one of the things that has really shifted for me that I feel in my body. The other thing is the terrible endless math of comparison. I touched on that earlier when I would usually think, “Oh, before I was poor, and now I’m privileged,” “and also my mother was working long hours, and now I have almost everything that I want and all of the things that I need.” And, oh, I remember getting really depressed after I took the ACE. And the reason I was depressed was because my score was not as high as I thought it would be, and was like, “Iris you’re just in the middle of the ACE and why are you in this miserable state?” And then I just started to very slowly dawn on me that my struggles are my struggles. And my struggles now are my struggles now and it’s different from the next person, and that’s okay. It’s not a contest. And it’s not about who has the worst or the better misery because I was really sort of beating my chest with like, somebody else’s ACE is higher than you and why are you like that? Look at this person, like she’s way more resilient. And so I was raised in Catholic too, Jen, so there’s that self-flagellation, yeah. And then another thing too, is that I’m starting to let go of the old stories, the stories that don’t serve me anymore. I remember I had some issues with my computer one time before our call and I said something about my neighbor who was the tech guy looked at my computer and said that you haven’t updated your operating system for years. I was just like, “Oh, this is the metaphor of my life!” I’m not updating the operating system. And one specific example of that is like, I don’t know if this will come as a surprise to you. I was not the most obedient child.

 

Jen Lumanlan  34:59

No, I’m not shocked.

 

Iris  35:02

And my father, when he gets frustrated with me. He would say like, “Iris, the time will come when you will have your own child, and your child be more difficult than you. And I curse you!” And so I thought that this was some kind of a curse on me. And so when I was having a hard time with Malaya, I was like,”Oh my god, this is the curse!” Parenting is just difficult, whether you are a curse or not. And the other important thing that I’m still continuing to sort of like percolate in my mind, is how I see power and respect. Respect for the elders for those who are older than you. It is no buts. No ifs, like, Don’t question and all these things. But then, Malaya is here in Canada, and she’s a totally different person. And of course, I don’t want her to walk all over me and be like, abusive, or something but she can say her piece, and I tried to talk to her about decisions, and you know, her opinions. There is one example of this. She was getting ready for her musical theater class, and she’s like, “What duuuh.” She’s just this person. And so I said, I used my Filipino mom tactic, I said, “Oh, Malaya you are dilly-dallying there, if you are late to your practice, or your rehearsal, the teacher will replace you.” And then I said like that, she went to the breakfast table, and then after a while, she said, “Mama, I don’t think that teachers will do that because first of all, that’s mean. And second, were children. And I don’t think they will replace me.” And then she said, “I’ve memorized my lines. I know where to go.” So I was like, “Dang!” my scaring tactic didn’t work, and I just laughed and said, “Yeah, you’re right.” But it was different. When I was growing up, it was like, “You do this.” No questions. Just follow.

 

Jen Lumanlan  37:07

Yeah. And that’s the thing about that “respect,” right? It’s one way. It’s you child who will respect me parents because I’m older, and because I said, so. There’s no respect that flows the other way. And so whether or not you come from the Philippines, I think that adultish culture has been the same in many, many, many places around the world, particularly places with a colonial history, including us, including England, and that this idea of the child respecting the parent is paramount. But if we think about it, is it really respect? Isn’t it more fear? It’s not really respect that we’re feeling when our parent is trying to coerce us into doing something because that’s the only tool that they have, right? And in that difficult moment, that was the only tool that you thought you had to get her out the door to go. Whereas now you have tools where you know how to reconnect, just sit back and say, “Okay, we’re having a hard time this morning.” Yeah, and I think the other thing you touched on what’s really important is the idea of self-flagellation and guilt. And that shows up in so many ways in the well, I should know better, I know what to do, like, I’m in all these positive parenting groups, and I know the things to say, and in the moment, I just can’t make it happen. I just can’t apply the knowledge that I have learned and those are the right moments for the old whip on the bag to be taken out primed by our cultural heritage. I’ll speak to the White western world, and I’m sure Catholicism has its version of it too. If you have this knowledge, then all you need is willpower. And if you apply that willpower, you will be able to make the change. And that’s not always the case. Do you see less of that sort of guilt and self-flagellation now? What’s happened there?

 

Iris  39:07

Yeah, one of the things that transformed me was like from self-flagellation to self-compassion. An example of this is like, I am now more aware of my boundaries and my limits and just like, “Okay, I’m tired and so the kitchen counter is still like, a mess, but I need to do something that is nourishing for me.” And so I will leave that kitchen and go back to it later. And so one time, there was that exact moment, one nourishing thing that really, really helps me is connecting with people, especially after like, the whole day on the computer just by myself. So I went down to the courtyard, and I chatted with people, and just like being out and being with other human beings, grown-ups. Being with grownups that really rejuvenated me. And so I came back here to the kitchen and then Melissa came home from school, she said, “Mama, can I watch TV?” So, yes, go for it. And then when it was time to turn off the TV, she had a big meltdown, a very, very big meltdown, and she was saying, “You’re mean, you’re a bad mama,” like, “You’re the worst ever,” like all these things. And for those kinds of things, really like, like, you know, it really gets me going. But because I pause earlier in that afternoon to just recharge myself, then I had the space inside of me to just pause and not get angry, and look at her, and just allow her to release whatever this pent-up emotion and not say like, “How dare you,” or things like that. And so after a while, she mellowed down, and she went in with her toys, and then I was making dinner, and then she said, “Mama!” So she was calling me and I said, “Okay, yes, Malaya, what can I do for you?” And then she said, “I love you. You’re the best mom ever.” And that, “Okay, thank you, I love you, too.” So, if it was like the before times, she and I will be like not like this. So those are the kinds of things that really made some transformed things for me, not just in this big, like, macro, big picture way but this like, small moments.

 

Jen Lumanlan  41:39

Yeah, just want to pull out a couple of key moments in what you were describing there. I think the first one is you looked at the kitchen, and it’s so easy just to get sucked in at that moment and think, “I have to tidy it up, there is no other option here. I cannot let this go.” And instead, you noticed that you were in this almost sort of a choice point kind of moment, and okay, there’s this thing that is going to need to be done at some point, and also, I need some nourishment. And these two activities are not necessarily going to fit well together, maybe there are probably some people who get some nourishment from cleaning; I think those people are out there in the world, I’m not one of them, you’re not one of them. And you saw that you needed something different and then you went and did that, you put something in place that said, “I am going to take some time for myself, I am worthy of taking time for myself that is not connected to cleaning.” And that created a wider window of tolerance for you. And then when your daughter is having this meltdown, that wider window of tolerance enables you to not just click into your old patterns, your old ways of reacting. It created that pause and that pause is like the magic moment, right? That’s when everything happens. And that’s what we spend so much time on in the workshop is creating and lengthening that pause so that you have that time to choose how you’re going to respond instead of just having the instant reaction. And then the third piece to come out of it, of course, is going from “I hate you. “You’re a terrible parent,” to “I love you, Mama.” And I think what does she really saying here? Right? What she’s saying is, “I needed that space, and I felt safe because you allowed me that space. And I love you for what you were able to give to me in that moment when I was really struggling.” That’s what she’s saying, right? When she’s saying that right after that happened.

 

Iris  43:31

That makes me feel like crying.

 

Jen Lumanlan  43:38

Yeah, I mean, it’s so profound if you break these interactions down and say, “Okay, what is really happening here? Where is my behavior coming from? Why am I having a hard time? Where’s my child’s behavior coming from? Why are they having a hard time?” And of course, you could also use some of the other tools we talked about to understand. Is this about TV? Is this about something that happened at school? What’s really going on and all of this, but you held space at that moment, you didn’t try to fix any problem, you didn’t try and talk her down. You just allowed her to express what she needed to express. And over time, the form of the expression will shift and some children will throw things and we’re, of course coaching them to express their feelings in a way that isn’t destructive to people or property. But we’re holding space for even the most difficult feelings so that when they have difficult feelings in the future when they’re older when things get really hairy, that they know that that we can be there for them through that because we’ve shown it to them so many times throughout the path along the way. So I mean, it’s such profound groundwork that you’re laying here. It’s incredible. Is there anything else you’d like to share about your experience or what has shifted for you through the workshop?

 

 

Iris  44:46

I’m also in the parenting group and the learning membership.

 

Jen Lumanlan  44:49

So when you said you didn’t really stalk me that was it was only partially true.

 

Iris  44:58

Yeah, I think of the taming your triggers workshop as you are not giving a formula. I wish there was some kind of magic formula. But of course, it would probably be easier and you will be a millionaire. What I was getting was not a formula, but more of a recipe, and a recipe for cooking. I know in baking; it has to be some prescriptive thing. But you gave us a recipe for like suggestion of like, okay, you can cook it like this, or you can cook it like that, and not just the way how to “cook” it. But also, you gave us the ingredients like mindfulness and those really like the grounding techniques, and problem-solving skills, all those ingredients, I don’t have an abundance of them, but they are there. I can pull some to depending on the situation with my daughter. I’m also moving from the guilt that I’ve been feeling to more of a gratitude that it’s okay, I’m here, I’m not perfect, but I’m here and I’m holding on to my saddle and I’m enjoying my ride a little bit. I think your work is really important not just to parents, but in the whole world which is probably kind of like in parenting our children in a way that will make our world a more just place. I think that if we see your work in that context, you’re really doing a great work for the world, not just for us parents so thank you. So the gratitude there also for you and for all the other participants who join your workshop and membership group.

 

Jen Lumanlan  46:44

So thank you so much, Iris. Yeah, that is my hope as well, that we’re not just doing this thing for ourselves and for our children as important as that is. I truly believe that if that is our only focus that we’ve missed something huge and that it is through using these kinds of tools and raising children who will go out in the world with a sense of what it means to truly listen for the sake of understanding for truly understanding another person’s needs. And then working together to see how can we meet both people’s needs. I think that we can do a lot to change the world using those kinds of tools. So I’m so grateful that you came around again for the workshop, and also took the time to share a little bit with us about what your experience was like here today. Thanks so much, Iris. It’s always such a great time talking with you.

 

Iris  47:31

Thank you, Jen.

 

Jen Lumanlan  47:33

And so anyone who wants to learn more about the taming your triggers workshop can find that information at yourparentingmojo.com/tamingyourtriggers.

 

Jessica  47:42

Hi, this is just from Burlesque Panama. I’m a Your Parenting Mojo fan and I hope you enjoy this show as much as I do. If you found this episode especially enlightening or useful, you can also donate to help Jen produce more content like this and also save us from those interminable ads then you can do that and also subscribe in the link that Jen just mentioned. And don’t forget to head to yourparentingmojo.com to record your own message for the show.