SYPM 012: From fear-filled conflict to parenting as a team

Jen  00:02

Hi, I’m Jen and I host the Your Parenting Mojo Podcast. We all want our children to lead fulfilling lives, but it can be so hard to keep up with the latest scientific research on child development and figure out whether and how to incorporate it into our own approach to parenting. Here at Your Parenting Mojo, I do the work for you by critically examining strategies and tools related to parenting and child development that are grounded in scientific research and principles of respectful parenting. If you’d like to be notified when new episodes are released, and get a FREE Guide Called 13 Reasons Why Your Child Won’t Listen To You and What To Do About Each One, just head over to YourParentingMojo.com/SUBSCRIBE. You can also continue the conversation about the show with other listeners in the Your Parenting Mojo Facebook group. I do hope you’ll join us.

Jen  00:59

Hello, and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo Podcast. Today we welcome a special guest Nicole who has been working with me for over a year now. Nicole was raised by a single parent who had had a traumatic childhood herself, and who was young when Nicole was born. Nicole told me she didn’t even realise that there were other ways to be a parent until she became one herself. She stumbled on Respectful Parenting and read a number of the popular books in the field and found my podcast when she was searching for resources beyond what the books could provide. She had previously worked in speech therapy practice and was accustomed to using evidence-based practices.

Jen  01:32

So she realised that this approach fit well with her background. When the pandemic hit, she quickly saw she needed more help in figuring out solutions that would fit her family. She joined the Parenting Membership and I think it’s fair to say she didn’t really realise what she was getting into. She told me that through the membership, she’s discovered concepts like Reparenting that she would never have known to seek out, and which have been difficult to process but have ultimately helped her to understand herself and connect with her children more effectively. She’s very clear that she’s not a perfect parent, but she’s constantly working on applying what she’s learned. She sees the guilt that she often feels as a parent and knows how to move through that now and show herself the compassion that she never learned up to this point. She has a plan. And it isn’t something that requires her to do certain things in certain ways, but it’s more of a North Star that guides her so the interactions that she has with her children, even on the difficult days are aligned with the deeply held values that she has as a parent and as a person.

Jen  02:28

Many parents see they want to raise their children differently than the way they were raised, but need some support in figuring out not just what to do, but how to do it, and how to remember to do it so they can rewrite the script of childhood for their children. If you need some help leaving the old parenting script behind as well, I invite you to join us in the Parenting Membership. To learn more about it, go to YourParentingMojo.com/ParentingMembership.

Jen  02:52

Hello, and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo Podcast. Today we are here with Nicole who is going to tell us a little bit about her family and some of the changes that she’s been making over the last year or so and how that’s really affected her and her interactions with her family. So welcome, Nicole. I’m so glad you’re here.

Nicole  03:10

Thank you, Jen. It’s so great to be here.

Jen  03:12

So I wonder if you can maybe just start by telling us a bit about you and your family. Who are you? Where are you? Who else is with you?

Nicole  03:19

Sure. I’m Nicole. I live outside of Philadelphia. And my past career, I was a Speech Therapist in the school settings and I work mostly in early childhood and preschool. And now I am home with my two very spirited and sensitive kiddos. I have a four year old son and a six year old daughter. And I also am supported by my very supportive husband, Jack. So yeah, we’re all here together and I ended up leaving my job because I wanted to be the main influence for my kiddos while they were in their early childhood years since I’d spent so much time learning about it and working with other people’s families. And now we are here and we are homeschooling and unschooling and I feel like the kids are doing really well considering the circumstances.

Jen  04:17

Yeah, considering it has not been an easy year for anybody by any stretch of the imagination, Okay, awesome. So I’m wondering about I just want to get to know you a little bit more as a person and the beliefs and the values that really shape you can you can you tell us about that both on a personal level as a person but also as a parent?

Nicole  04:36

Sure. So I I definitely have started identifying with being a very empathetic and sensitive person, which I used to think was problematic and maybe one of my weaknesses, but I’m thinking that it’s driving the things that do make me who I am. So I have to always uphold, I guess, respect and justice. Those are things that when I see them violated I feel it, I feel it in my body. And it’s kind of, it’s really hard for me to, to see those things happening. So those are definitely big values for me. And I guess curiosity is big, I think I’ve always kind of sought to grow more as a person always find out more information. When I was working, I would be taking courses constantly, just because I wanted to know the most I could know about what I was doing. And that’s also made me really value science, if science can be a value. It is to me. You know, some of the places I’ve worked, I’ve been surrounded by some really great clinicians that were always doing research and using evidence based practices to drive their therapy with the kiddos. And that inspired me. And also, I married into a family of PhDs and researchers and there’s just people around me that are always looking for the why and the evidence. So to me, that is something that I, you know, hold very close to my… I guess yeah, that’s one of my big values.

Jen  06:08

And it seems as though that your values could potentially create problems for you as a parent, particularly around the idea of respect, where if you’re coming from sort of the mainstream, not not a value that’s primarily considered important in parenting. What was that shift like for you? Or was it a shift? Or how does that show up for you as a parent?

Nicole  06:31

Well, I don’t think kids are born knowing how to respect their parents. They’re just going about and getting their needs met and doing that in whatever way they can. And it doesn’t show up like respect. So is it our job as the parents to teach them respect? Is this something that we can say you need to do this? Or is this something that we show to them by, you know, living it and showing them respect and showing our partners and our family respect? So it definitely is something that I still think about now and notice if the kiddos aren’t necessarily showing me respect, but it’s also not my job to teach them how to do it or tell them to do it. I know that that’s something that will come in time when I treat them with it. So

Jen  07:14

Yeah, yeah. And then the other thing he said was, as you were talking about science, but to me, I was thinking it’s sort of a thirst for knowledge, as you mentioned, as well and in your work, and that can be paralysing as a parent where we feel like, oh, if I just had this one piece of knowledge that everything would click, and all of the struggles I’m having with my child wouldn’t be struggles anymore. Does that resonate?

Nicole  07:36

Yes. When I started out parenting, I didn’t really know what I was doing, like most parents. And I did think that if I read every book that kind of aligned with my values, that I could just figure it out and get the recipe for how to parent and how to get kids that turn out great and yeah, it didn’t really work like that.

Jen  08:03

Tell me more. What what was what didn’t work?

Nicole  08:07

I think that there was just this fear and anxiety of not getting it right. So if I didn’t follow the book to the tee, that I would somehow screw up the kids, and that if my partner didn’t follow my instructions, he would then screw up our kids. So, you know, it turned into this controlling thing where I was trying to control him, I was trying to control the situation. I remember shouting to him in the other room during diaper changes and saying, well, you’re not letting them know what what you’re doing first. You’re not asking for consent to change the diaper and just thinking, well, this is the end of the world and we’ve already screwed them up. So yeah, I was definitely you know, it brought out this perfectionist side in me that we just had to get it right. And we had to do with the book said, and yeah, it caused a lot more fear and anxiety than I probably would have liked.

Jen  09:03

Yeah, I can imagine. And I’m wondering if that fear and anxiety ultimately comes from a place related to intergenerational trauma where the relationship that you may have had with your parent may have been one that you’re sort of looking at and thinking, hey, it’s in some ways, I see that she did the best that she could and in other ways, I want something different. How does that show up in your relationship with your kids?

Nicole  09:32

Probably the drive to know more and do better came from knowing that there was this possibility of intergenerational trauma. I know my mother’s upbringing was not so easy for her and she didn’t have a lot of support from her mother. And, you know, when my mother had me, she was really young and she was a single mom, and we didn’t have a lot of money. She was working two jobs a lot. So, she showed up for me the best that she could. And a lot of times, you know, she would be triggered, and she would have her big feelings, and then I too would have my big feelings. So I guess I didn’t always feel safe to share my big feelings with her. And I didn’t want that for my kids, I knew that that was an important piece of having a relationship with someone to be able to say, hey, this isn’t working for me or this upset me, or I’m just feeling this way and know that that would be received by the other person in a safe way. But I had to be really sensitive around my sensitive mother and make sure that I didn’t upset her because I’d feel really guilty for that, because she was doing the best she could. And yeah, it was also a bit scary, right? It’s a bit scary when your parents yell at you. So I really didn’t want that for my kids. And I read all the books, and I would be able to just stop the intergenerational trauma.

Jen  10:58

Yeah. And there’s so much more to it than that, isn’t there? Yeah. So is there a real sense that it feel it feels like you’re reparenting yourself and trying to give yourself some of the things that she may have tried to do and just wasn’t able to meet your needs wasn’t able to see that you were a person who had needs as well, at the same time as you’re learning how to do this for children as well – for your own children?

Nicole  11:24

Yeah, I think so. When I joined the Membership, I thought we’d be getting lots of information and lots of support, which we did, and…

Jen  11:32

The right piece of information that will unlock everything.

Nicole  11:37

But I didn’t expect the reparenting piece. I think that was something that I know was something that I had never heard of, but it was something that caught me by surprise. And it was really powerful for me, just to kind of go back and talk to that younger person, who I never knew was still in there, but she is and just let her know that your feelings are important. And you don’t have to be scared to voice your feelings and you’re safe in all situations. And you’re doing okay. So yeah, that piece was… Whoo.

Jen  12:17

I will never forget that honestly. And and for people who are watching this was a module of content in the Membership, and Nicole gamely volunteered to be coached in front of a small intimate group of people that she knew fairly well by then and, and to just kind of go back to what it was like to be that young person who had these needs that weren’t met. And I mean, yeah, that gave me the chills as well. And seeing the shift that happened in you to be able to say, Yeah, I had needs. And I wasn’t asking for the world. I just needed to be heard and for somebody to understand or try and try and understand trying to empathise with me. And to be able to say that, yes, those were valid and also, okay, now I can start to see how I can do that for my own children as well. I mean, it’s, it was it was amazing to see you go through that.

Nicole  13:18

I felt really lucky that I had the chance to go through a reparenting coaching session.

Jen  13:25

And so I actually don’t know the answer to this question. How did you find my work in the first place?

Nicole  13:33

I guess someone had given me Magda Gerber’s book when I first started, Yeah, I became a new parent and it was someone I worked with, and I trusted her and I thought, okay, I’ll look at this respectful based parenting being child-led, and I really liked it. I thought, oh, gosh, this isn’t something that anyone really does. So I really liked exploring that. And then I found Janet Lansbury’s work but this RIE Parenting only takes you to about three years old, you know, that toddler years. And then, you know, as more complicated topics come up, I didn’t really know where to look. And my three year old was asking a lot the time she was three now she’s six, but where we are before we are born, and where do we go after we die? And I didn’t feel prepared to answer that at three years old. And I’m not religious, but I don’t want to close the door of religion to my kids with my own beliefs. So I started looking for research based podcasts on death. So that is how I found your podcast.

Jen  14:41

I’m sure that’s how most people find…

Nicole  14:46

So thank you for that one. It was really helpful.

Jen  14:48

Yes. It helped me too actually, two weeks after I did that episode, my then three year old asked “Do you have a mama?” and and I was ready to answer that question because I had done that interview. So yes, I’m glad to help the two of us and hopefully more people as well. And so then you you joined the Membership a while after that. And I wonder what was it like to get going in there? And how did you get started with it?

Nicole  15:13

Yeah, it was really excited actually to speak with you because I had listened to probably eighty podcast of yours at the time, and I thought, Oh, my gosh, she’s you know, I think it’s the introduction of the podcast where you see research based practices wherein you don’t have to read all the books. And I thought, yes, that’s what I need. I don’t want to read the books. And I like research. Yeah, so to be able to just kind of get your input on some of the issues that were coming up again, and again, for us as a family was really exciting. But then the community piece of things where I was talking to other like minded parents – parents with similar values – getting their advice and hearing their solutions, which really resonated, because they were taking this approach to parenting that was really cool. And I didn’t expect that piece. So that was kind of energising to keep going and to show up and keep participating in all the modules. So yeah, I really like that. Yeah.

Jen  16:15

Were you in other parents and communities already, online or anything like that?

Nicole  16:19

I guess informally. So I’ve done a lot of the RIE Parenting Facebook groups.

Jen  16:24

And there was something different there where I’m curious about what was different that you weren’t getting in those groups.

Nicole  16:30

It’s not really a very focused approach. So I think because I’m goal oriented, it’s kind of nice to focus on one area, and work on it and put it into practice, because with podcasts, it’s great information, but then putting it into your life doesn’t always go so smoothly.

Jen  16:49

Yeah, that’s a fairly consistent theme that I hear from parents is that Yeah, the podcast gives you the information. But then what do you do with it? So I’m curious, were you kind of excited by the possibility? Or were you kind of scared or anxious? Or what was what was going on as you were making that decision?

Nicole  17:06

I mean, I have to say there was a timing element to joining the Membership too because I had gotten an email about the new cohort starting during the first few weeks of lockdown. And I’m just thinking, yes, I am home with my children and I’m not really sure what’s going to happen when we’re all together all the time. And, you know, I can be a little bit controlling and I don’t want to be. I need something else. A lot of the RIE Parenting principles talk about validating feelings and I think there’s just a lot of Yes, you must validate the feelings, and you must be the brave, fearless leader and show up for your kids but that just wasn’t working with our kids all the time because their feelings are really big and Yes, yes. You’re angry. Yes. You’re sad. Yes. You You know, whatever it is. And it just, it can drain you. And he’s my, my youngest has really big feelings. So they kind of blindside you, they can come out of nowhere. So you’re never really like expecting them and, you know, if you just keep validating feelings without anything else, I just started to detach from him. And I felt really guilty about it because I couldn’t figure out what to do. I thought I was doing what the book said. And yeah, I was really missing that piece.

Jen  18:28

And so what shifted, then what what did you start to see differently?

Nicole  18:32

Gosh, I guess it was, it was probably with myself and controlling. I noticed that by validating him, I was still trying to change him, I was still trying to have an outcome that was, you know, of my working and I think he could sense that, you know, yes, I’m validating you know, stop crying, right.

Jen  18:56

I remember very distinctly that conversation where that that specific thing shifted for you. The idea that we can validate emotions, and, and also have a goal of Okay, if I validate, you’re supposed to stop doing it now. Right? That’s, that’s supposed to happen. But..

Nicole  19:15

You’re not stopping…. He didn’t stop. So just being able to hold space for him now and not try and change what’s happening with him. I think it’s like, the most unconditional thing you can really do for your kids to really just see their experience and say, I’m here for you. And, you know, what are you needing in that moment? And kind of like this needs piece that we weren’t ever understanding from whatever we were doing before this but saying, Okay, what are you needing, can I help you with that need? And that has been a really big shift for us, and also that our needs are important. So I actually need a break before I do this. I’m just gonna step over here, take some breaths, and then I’m going to be ready to show up for you in this moment. Yeah. It’s so complex, it’s so complex.

Jen  20:12

Because relationships are complex, right? Yeah, we’re so used to thinking of our children is as simple things in a press button A and thing B will happen. And we press button A, and we’re jamming our finger down on button A and thing B isn’t happening. What’s wrong with me? When actually, that’s not how we are in relationship with anyone else in our lives so why would it be the case for children? And and so I’m curious, then, is there a specific example that you can think through of a way that this has happened recently, where you can see, oh, yeah, a year ago, I would have, you know, I would have handled this very differently. And because of the work that I have been doing, that I now in this specific example, showed up very differently. And that that is consistent with my values. Is there something along those lines that’s happened recently that you can think of?

Nicole  21:06

I’m thinking of something that happened this morning.

Jen  21:10

Oh okay.

Nicole  21:14

So my husband is working from home, which is really nice. And I think it’s made us all a lot closer but my son has become very attached to him, and really just wants daddy a lot of the time. And in the mornings, they wake up first, and they go downstairs, and my daughter, and I sleep in a little bit later. But then when I come downstairs, he knows that daddy is probably going to work and I have to say goodbye to daddy. So when I went down, he was angry with me. And he was you know, saying things like I want to throw all my animals at you and hurt you and make you go away. So before me, before all this would have probably taken that really personally and just say, Oh, yeah, you know, I hear you, you’re angry, you’re angry. But kind of acknowledging that, oh, you really love daddy, you miss daddy. And when mommy comes down, you know that daddy is probably going to have to say goodbye. You know, how many minutes of play would you like with daddy before he has to go to work? And just saying, you know, would having a few minutes with dad help you and just kind of going, you know, this is the need that you have, right? You really need to connect with daddy before he goes like it’s all of a sudden, here’s mommy. And so they sat down and they played Legos together for a few minutes. And then when my husband had to go to work, he said, okay, Bye, daddy. Mommy, come play with me. And I Okay, sure. So, yeah, so it just, you know, we can just see how his needs are being met. And he’s okay. And maybe it’s not, Daddy doesn’t go to work that day, like he’s asking for, but it’s saying, alright, like, five minutes should should do the trick. And then I’ll feel better and more prepared for this. So

Jen  22:59

Yeah, and wow, that’s, that’s such a an amazing example because it’s so easy to take that personally, right? The the, I don’t like you, I hate you. I’m gonna throw everything at you. It feels like it’s about us. It feels like a rejection of us. And that what am I doing wrong, that my child is saying these horrible hurtful things to me, maybe they’ll say them to somebody else. And I’ll be exposed as a terrible parent who has no control over my child and who is this Respectful Parenting thing is clearly not working when actually you heard that underlying message, which had nothing to do with you as a person. It had to do with you as a signal, making an entrance into that room and Oh, I love daddy so much and mama being here now means that time with daddy’s over. And yeah, you’re not trying to change him. You’re just seeing in yourself where he is. And not getting emotionally attached to that and not having your worth as a parent ride on his approval of you or his lack of desire in that moment, say, oh, Mommy, I love you so much. But to see his need, and to help him to meet that need for a few minutes, and then transition into your husband also has needs and and has things to do in the world and, and that you can also be there for your son to support him as well. Wow. That’s that’s, that’s an incredible example. Thank you for sharing that. And yeah, so it’s, it seems like it’s been a real period of growth for you as a person. And that this is not about finding the piece of knowledge to make this right but it’s about who you are how you show up in the world. Mm hmm.

Nicole  24:45

Yeah, I do. I feel a lot more confident about everything because, not well, not because I have the answers but because I just feel like I know how to connect better with my kids or just connect with the situation, and I’m not trying to figure it out, figure out what to do about it, but just how to be there or remind myself how to be there. So that we are all kind of working on the same page and talking to each other.

Jen  25:17

Yeah. And again, you’re you’re absolutely right, your job is not to provide the answer, or even have the answer. Or even look for the answer. But just to be here in relationship with this other person and see their needs as valid as your needs were not seen as valid.  When you were a child. You’re you’re doing the work here. You’re doing…

Nicole  25:43

Yeah, yeah.

Jen  25:44

And that’s all of any of us can do is to show up and, and to try and do that to the extent that we can, given all of our history and all the things that we’re working on, and all of the things that still cause us to feel triggered and flooded. And to still try to give ourselves what we need, and be there for our children to truly see them as people.

Nicole  26:09

Yeah. They really liked having that language, just to talk about our needs. I mean, we posted the list of needs on our fridge so that we just can’t really identify what’s going on with ourselves, especially when we’re triggered, which still happen. As you know, my husband is taking the Taming Your Triggers workshop right now so he’s in touch with some of his unmet needs. But um, yeah, we don’t always have the language for that. It’s also helping us parent together, because he knows I’m not trying to control him. He, you know, we can talk about this is my unmet need, that this is what I see happening. And then he could say, well, this is his unmet need, and that’s not this attack on each other and each other’s parenting, but it’s okay, how do we figure out how to kind of meet in the middle? Or what can we do here? And that’s been really helpful for us, as parents, and we even started doing check ins with each other when we’re not triggered to, you know, how is this parenting thing going for you? How is that parenting thing so that we can talk about these things more objectively, because of other really big source of conflict for us and we became very conflict avoidant because of it and nothing was being discussed. So this is kind of opened the communication and helped us kind of align with each other, and understand each other more

Jen  27:30

Wow. Which which strengthens your own relationship, and also helps your children to see this model for what we do in relationships with other people that yes, things happen and we shout at each other and, and nothing is perfect all the time. And when that happens, what happens? Do we come back and repair? Do we have a way to share this language around our needs that aren’t being met? Or is it about, you know, you didn’t do this, and you never do that? And, and that itself is is modelling for our own children. So I’m curious about how that shift happened, because I don’t know that much about your husband, but I do know he’s English. And I do know a thing or two about English people. Not saying, you know, overgeneralize, or anything, but we tend not to be so open about these kinds of emotional things. And so it’s sort of a little bit closed off. And so I’m wondering, that’s not the case for you, obviously, you’re an empath. You’re a person who feels deeply and really resonates with other people. So he, he’s in this very different space from you. And he is now sort of coming into this world of understanding feelings and needs. How did that shift even happen to the extent that you can share without compromising his privacy?

Nicole  28:39

Wow, I think it’s really interesting because his parents will talk openly about how they parented. His mother is actually a psychologist and I think she’s very in touch with how she tried to parent and they’d never really had conflicts in front of their children. And that was something that as a sense of pride for them at the time. And now, I think they said at one point that they wish they had maybe had more conflict in front of their kids. And my husband didn’t want to have conflicts in front of our children. I think it was really hard too because I before I was doing this work, I didn’t really know how to have conflict because I avoided conflict with my mother growing up. And because I was an only child, there wasn’t anyone else to really practice on, I guess. And because I was, you know, we would blow up at each other. There was really no repairs ever. I still have a hard time apologising with him, not so much, the kids, the kids, I can kind of come back and say woof, I did not mean to do that. But for my husband, I can’t. So I can see why he wouldn’t want to engage in conflict with me at that time and having no real model of healthy conflict and his family life was it was tricky, but I think kind of talking about what it means to have safe and healthy conflict – that conflict is not bad – it’s giving us a chance to talk about what we need and problem solve together. If we’re not doing that, then we’re not addressing what’s you know, bothering us or what’s impacting us. And I think there are a lot of those conversations, just having him understand that conflict can be the source of powerful communication, meaningful communication and connection. And the kids should see that because then the kids can figure this out too, then he does not… He gets very triggered when the kids have arguments. So, you know, this is coming across in all areas but yeah, it was, it’s been, it’s been at least a seven year journey. And longer since we’ve been together. But I think, yeah, there’s something really powerful about coming in with this kind of soft startup and coming from this place of this is my need, I actually need you to try and get on board with this because I want our kids to be able to have conflict with people and know it’s safe and know that the other person isn’t going to stop being their friend or stop being their partner because of this conflict. So it was important to me that we figured this out for them.

Jen  31:15

Yeah. And so do you now see him picking up these ideas related to Respectful Parenting outside of conflict as well in other areas and how is that shift happened in time?

Nicole  31:26

Yeah, I think the consent is a huge piece. And you know, what we try not to say, Oh, we have a girl, we have a daughter, and we have a son. And we need to make sure that the daughter knows this, and the son knows that. But there’s, you know, this conversation around consent, and we weren’t brought up learning about ways to or why it’s so important to start this from a young age. And you know, when I can put it into the terms of, you know, we have these kids, and teaching them about consent from this age will help them, you know, in this adult situation, or this friendship situation, they need to know how to do this for themselves. And he really does value that he wants them to get to that point. So if it means talking about things in a different way, in a more respectful way, and then he’s on board with it, for sure.

Jen  32:16

Yeah, I often what I see in parents is actually, a lot of times they want the same things. They just have different ideas about how to get there. Or maybe one parent sees I want this thing and life is so hard right now and so this is what I’m doing and don’t see the disconnect between the thing I’m doing right now and where I’m going to end up if I if I do it that way. And that. Yeah, if we go in with a, we did a sharing Your Parenting Mojo episode a long time ago, where the parents said that she wrote down a two page summary of all the things that our family should or shouldn’t do around our children, which I think was not well received. So if we go in with that, then yeah, it’s gonna get the heckles up. But you mentioned the soft startup conversation, which is something that we learned very early on in the Membership is to how to have a conversation that is not coming from a place of I know the better way, and I’m going to convince you of the superior way that I know about, but to say, what is important to you Wait, what are your values around this? Where do you want to go? Okay, what are you doing? May I share with yo what’s important to me? And can we see how these two things are actually probably fairly well aligned? And if so, what do we need to shift in our daily interactions to head towards something that we agree is important to see you on the same page about that? And yeah, there are going to be times when we have conflicts about it. And then that’s not the end of the world, we can have that conflict and still be still know that we’re, we’re both kind of heading in that that same direction. It almost feels as though you you don’t have a plan, because that’s not the right word for is like not like we’re putting the right ingredients in and we’re staring at the right way, we’re gonna put it in the oven at the right temperature and the perfect children are gonna come out the other end. But the sense that I’m getting from you is that we know what our values are, we know what’s important to us. And we were not necessarily on the same page about that before. And now it feels like we’re a team. I’m getting a sense of like that we’re a team on this.

Nicole  34:11

Yeah, for sure. And it feel it feels really empowering to come together and say like, this is what we’re doing to raise our kids and to also know that when we are not aligned or if we have conflict that it’s okay, and we can talk about it and yeah, it’s a big shift for us because I yeah, I still remember those diaper changing conversations. It didn’t feel good. I just didn’t really know what else to do. So yeah, it’s nice to be actually moving in a direction that feels good.

Jen  34:44

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your experience with us. It’s been such a pleasure to work with you over the last year or so and get to know you and to see this this shift that you’ve been able to make it’s it’s been really amazing to watch so thank you for for trusting me to be part of your journey.

Nicole  35:01

And I have to thank you as well. Because without this Community and without these resources and the Membership, I would not have been in this position and didn’t feel good a year ago and yeah, so I’m just really grateful that this exists and that you continue to do this work and show up for all of us.

Jen  35:21

Yeah, thank you. And so if anyone is listening or watching this and thinking, I want to meet Nicole. I want to be in that amazing Community. You can learn more about it at YourParentingMojo.com/ParentingMembership.

Jen  35:34

Thanks for joining us for this episode of Your Parenting Mojo. Don’t forget to subscribe to the show at YourParentingMojo.com to receive new episode notifications, and the FREE Guide Called 13 Reasons Why Your Child Won’t Listen To You and What To Do About Each One . And also join the Your Parenting Mojo Facebook group. For more respectful research-based ideas to help kids thrive and make parenting easier for you. I’ll see you next time on Your Parenting Mojo.